Why it is OK to use HID kits on our Edge

[Burrcold]

Ding dongs with HID hack jobs are a menace. Very selfish people.

What do you constitute as a "HID hack job"?

[RC Mike]

Gosh, could it be the ones that are blinding oncoming drivers? This isn't rocket science. It's self-centered buffoons. Poorly done vehicle modifications are pathetic. When they create safety hazards for others, they're immoral.

[Burrcold]

Gosh, could it be the ones that are blinding oncoming drivers? This isn't rocket science. It's self-centered buffoons. Poorly done vehicle modifications are pathetic. When they create safety hazards for others, they're immoral.

I thought you had something more specific/technical that you were referring to.

[TheWizard]

Agreed. Simply railing against "buffoons" is not helpful. Granted there are some people who know why some headlight modifications are bad but don't care about anyone else as long as they get what they want - those are the buffoons. But there are a lot of people who simply don't know why they shouldn't do things like install HID kits in halogen reflector housings. We should be educating them rather than just calling them names.

[TourGuide]

I think the real problem with this issue (HID kits in halogen housings) is that there isn't enough enforcement surrounding it. It is illegal to do this because you're creating a hazard to others - but I see people with these all over in my area - this and light bars which get run in lieu of the actual headlights - SHEESH people!

[robg253]

Well this got hijacked, I am just looking for information, and since I got that LED kit I would like to use it. This is my bad, I did not know that Ford even used HIDs any more considering so many of the new Fords have LEDs, also the color of the headlights look like halogen to me. So, this is my fault for not doing research before I got them. My intentions were not to perform a "hack job modification" and blind other drivers. I am also glad to see that you assume thats what I was tying to do, thanks.

 

With that out of the way, all I am trying to do now is see if the LED conversion kit will work for the daytime running lights? I would like to use the kit if I could. Not receive a lecture on aftermarket modification etiquette. So please, if you could keep it to constructive information that would help my situation, that would be great.

 

thanks to any of you who are providing information

Edited March 26, 2017 by robg253

[TheWizard]

Your response leads to questions about your use of terminology. "Ford even used HIDs any more"? HIDs are a relatively new type of lighting for headlights (and only headlights) that has come along this century (although the Lincoln Mark VIII used reflector HID headlights in 1998) and very few Ford models use LED headlights yet. HIDs are not used for daytime running lights because the high voltage ballast doesn't like being run using PWM voltage reduction so any vehicle using their headlights as DRLs is running halogen headlights rather than HIDs. With factory HID headlights, the DRLs are assigned to different lamps such as the turn signals or fog lights depending on make and model.

 

As previously stated, there is no way to replace HID headlights with LEDs because nobody makes a bulb to fit. Halogen headlights can sometimes be switched to LED but the lamp design and particularly the dust cover on the back of the lamp can make installation difficult.

 

Again, if you're actually talking about replacing standard incandescent miniature bulbs (turn signals - including DRLs, brake lights, side markers, etc.) with LEDs then there is no reason they won't work as long as you get the correct bulb type for each location. You may need load resistors to prevent the turn signals from hyper-flashing if you replace those bulbs.

[elricfate]

Your response leads to questions about your use of terminology. "Ford even used HIDs any more"? HIDs are a relatively new type of lighting for headlights (and only headlights) that has come along this century (although the Lincoln Mark VIII used reflector HID headlights in 1998) and very few Ford models use LED headlights yet. HIDs are not used for daytime running lights because the high voltage ballast doesn't like being run using PWM voltage reduction so any vehicle using their headlights as DRLs is running halogen headlights rather than HIDs. With factory HID headlights, the DRLs are assigned to different lamps such as the turn signals or fog lights depending on make and model.

 

As previously stated, there is no way to replace HID headlights with LEDs because nobody makes a bulb to fit. Halogen headlights can sometimes be switched to LED but the lamp design and particularly the dust cover on the back of the lamp can make installation difficult.

 

Again, if you're actually talking about replacing standard incandescent miniature bulbs (turn signals - including DRLs, brake lights, side markers, etc.) with LEDs then there is no reason they won't work as long as you get the correct bulb type for each location. You may need load resistors to prevent the turn signals from hyper-flashing if you replace those bulbs.

 

I hate to be that guy, but a lot of this is incorrect.

 

First off, HIDs are not a new lighting technology, arc discharge lights have been around for a really long time. They've been used in cars since the early early '90s, and LED tech has been used in cars since the early aughts.

 

The reason HIDs are not used as DRLs is only in small part because of low voltage application, the reality is that arc discharge lighting doesn't have a long life to begin with, less so than halogen and much less so than LED, so it doesn't make sense to burn them all the time.

 

Any and all retrofits you stick in place, even high quality customs are technically illegal. A lot of Ford models are coming out with LED equipment as an option, very few offer them in the base models.

 

There are LEDs being made that have the same base and relative characteristics as HIDs. I saw it mentioned earlier, and again, that there are none, that's simply not true. Unlike arc discharge lighting, however, they do not have the ability to burn in 360*, therefore they've not really been used in projectors. They are being made, however.

 

You can either add load resistors, which are terrible because they draw current and dissipate it as heat, a horrible design, or you can add canbus adapters to lie to your PCM. In my F150, nicely enough, I didn't need to add load resistors to anything, just replace the turn signal relay from a resistance design to a timed design.

[candurin]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

 

I think the gist of all this is to use the correct bulb in the correct application. I also think some are confusing xenon bulbs and HIDs, but I digress:

 

Halogen reflectors - use halogens

Halogen projectors - use halogens (or you can push the limit here and go with HID)

HID projectors - use HIDs

 

LEDs are not to be used in any halogen or HID headlamps. Europe & China are quite lucky as they do get LED specialized headlamps (

).

 

Again, some may even put LEDs in DRL housings but as long as they only aim down and not up into the field of view of oncoming traffic, I see no issues with that.

 

Back to current question at hand... No, No you will not be able to replace a D3S bulb with an LED.

[robg253]

Ok well you all know a lot!!! about this so one simple question would be, can I use this LED kit for the halogen day time run lights? or is my kit junk for me at this point?

Edited March 27, 2017 by robg253

[TheWizard]

 

I hate to be that guy, but a lot of this is incorrect.

 

First off, HIDs are not a new lighting technology, arc discharge lights have been around for a really long time. They've been used in cars since the early early '90s, and LED tech has been used in cars since the early aughts.

 

The reason HIDs are not used as DRLs is only in small part because of low voltage application, the reality is that arc discharge lighting doesn't have a long life to begin with, less so than halogen and much less so than LED, so it doesn't make sense to burn them all the time.

 

Any and all retrofits you stick in place, even high quality customs are technically illegal. A lot of Ford models are coming out with LED equipment as an option, very few offer them in the base models.

 

There are LEDs being made that have the same base and relative characteristics as HIDs. I saw it mentioned earlier, and again, that there are none, that's simply not true. Unlike arc discharge lighting, however, they do not have the ability to burn in 360*, therefore they've not really been used in projectors. They are being made, however.

 

You can either add load resistors, which are terrible because they draw current and dissipate it as heat, a horrible design, or you can add canbus adapters to lie to your PCM. In my F150, nicely enough, I didn't need to add load resistors to anything, just replace the turn signal relay from a resistance design to a timed design.

 

Way off topic but as long as you're going to be that guy...

 

HID have only been used in automobiles since BMW introduced them in the early '90s but since we're talking about Ford, only that one Lincoln model had them as optional equipment before 2000 so "this century" is fairly accurate.

 

HIDs actually last longer than halogen bulbs. HIDs are rated around 2,000 hours while halogen bulbs are rated 500 - 1,000 hours depending on bulb type (e.g. the H9 is brighter but has a much shorter lifespan than the equivalent H11).

 

I suppose I should have been more specific and said that there are no plug-and-play LED replacements for HID. They all have to be wired into the vehicle. Plus the fit is just as problematic due to the cooling requirements at the back of the LED bulb making housing dust covers a problem. That's probably why the leaders in the field (Morimoto, V-LEDs, Diode Dynamics, etc.) don't make them. But yes, you can buy then on ebay. As George Carlin used to say, "you can nail together any two things that have never been nailed together before and some schmuck will buy them."

 

 

Ok well you all know a lot!!! about this so one simple question would be, can I use this LED kit for the halogen day time run lights? or is my kit junk for me at this point?

 

You keep saying "this LED kit" but you don't provide details. If you have HID headlights then the outer projector is the high and low beam headlights while the inner bulb acts as the DRL and is an H15. That H15 can easily be replaced with an LED bulb. On the other hand, if you have halogen projector headlights then the outer projector is low beam and DRLs at reduced power - it's a 9005 bulb. LEDs hate PWM reduced voltage even more than HIDs do, so you would likely have to put up with a lot of flickering if you use them there. That's because PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) doesn't reduce the voltage directly but sends timed pulses to reduce the overall average voltage. The pulsing is much too fast for a filament in a bulb to react so it just looks dimmer from the lower average voltage but LEDs react almost instantly so they basically flash for the on/off cycles of the modulation.

Edited March 27, 2017 by TheWizard

[Nick Halstead]

Gosh, could it be the ones that are blinding oncoming drivers? This isn't rocket science. It's self-centered buffoons. Poorly done vehicle modifications are pathetic. When they create safety hazards for others, they're immoral.

pretty funny since his HID setup is an OEM application...

[Nick Halstead]

There are LEDs being made that have the same base and relative characteristics as HIDs. I saw it mentioned earlier, and again, that there are none, that's simply not true. Unlike arc discharge lighting, however, they do not have the ability to burn in 360*, therefore they've not really been used in projectors. They are being made, however.

when you find a pnp LED that can mimic a hot spot of a HID then LED pnp bulbs as headlights have come a long way.

 

No manufacturer uses a LED bulb as a headlight

Edited March 27, 2017 by Nick Halstead

[Burrcold]

No manufacturer uses a LED bulb as a headlight

Sorry maybe I missed something in what you are saying, but there are manufacturers that use LED as headlights. My 2016 Mazda CX9 has both low and high beam (single unit) in LED (decent output too at 900 lumens on the low beam).

[TheWizard]

He means that no OEM makes LED headlights that have plug in bulbs. The currently available LED headlights from auto manufacturers use specially designed housings with unique LED modules in them.

[Burrcold]

He means that no OEM makes LED headlights that have plug in bulbs. The currently available LED headlights from auto manufacturers use specially designed housings with unique LED modules in them.

Thanks! I knew I was missing something when reading his reply.

[omar302]

Here is a short video on the F150 LED headlights.

 

[Nick Halstead]

[candurin]

Great link, Nick.

 

Why can't ford's implementation be as good as Audi or even nissan?

 

I know, rhetorical...

[robg253]

Ok to The Wizard you have answered my question thanks, my high/low projector is HID, my inside day time lights are halogen. the led kit was for a bace model edge with has halogen as high/low whether its projector or not. the kit is the H15 so I am good I guess. i broke my shoulder recently so I have not been able to get in the lights being one armed.

thanks again for the help too all the information

[robg253]

I love my LEDs that come stock on the 15, f150 they work great! also the mirror puddle lights on the f150 are nice, to be fair the new f150 come covers in LEDS except for the fog, and license plate which can be replaced quite easily

[Redwood]

Edit: This relates to projector housing vehicles only just to be clear.

 

So after I ordered my HID kit from Drive Bright, I started reading all about why you should never use HID bulbs in a Halogen application. They were talking about the alignment of the filament being wrong along with the position of the filament being in a different spot so the Halogen projectors will not work for an HID bulb. I read lots of controversy about this but I never saw an actual comparison in our application. There were lots of people here who said that they work great but no explanation of why they seem to work fine in our cars.

 

 

 

Do you have a link to the exact kit you ordered? I will probably go with 5500k, but your write-up seems to be the best of any that are out there, with proof that installation wasn't an issue.

[Tgrable]

I have always used the Morimoto stuff from TRS. I tried no less than 3 kits in my car before landing on the Morimoto stuff and I can say they are a class above the rest in terms of support, quality, and function.

[edge_st]

I have always used the Morimoto stuff from TRS. I tried no less than 3 kits in my car before landing on the Morimoto stuff and I can say they are a class above the rest in terms of support, quality, and function.

 

Have you installed the Morimoto Stroke 2 H11 LED kit yet? If so, hows the cut off? I recently ordered one as well so curious to know.