jlkansascity Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) It looks like Ford is in denial about problems on the new Edge. Reports are they had an actual "stop sale" (quit selling these until we get the problem figured out) but Ford denies that claim. Here is the article reporting the STOP SALE. Here is the article where they DENY there was a stop sale. This is due to a leak where water leaks into the front a pillars, and then inside the cabin. Vehicles made after April 28, 2015 are not affected, due to a change in manufacturing plant used. To me this smacks of the Gen1 transfer case issues which were widely recognized and experienced, but Ford chose to totally ignore and not support. Edited July 15, 2015 by jlkansascity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 It doesn't "smack" of anything except semantics. Ford told dealers to inspect and fix the vehicles before selling them and any affected vehicles would be fixed and tested for 3 days with some being eligible for buy-back. Nothing different that what's been reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cab2g Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 The media finally caught on eh? Yeah the water issue is a huge problem. They should've issued an official stop-sale. If they didn't they only did it to avoid extra paperwork, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm not sure how you consider issuing a multi-page repair procedure and setting up a buy-back program is "denial". Ford discovered a problem, they took steps to correct it and it shouldn't happen again. A formal stop-sale is only required when the parts or procedures to repair defective vehicles are not available. This was not the case here, since the dealers could easily repair vehicles and test for leaks. Once that procedure was complete, there was no reason that the vehicles should not be available for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drubush Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Here's one I read on Yahoo From CAR Connection: https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/2015-ford-edge-sales-stopped-161800785.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POWERSTROKE Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Well, the repair must be a LOT harder than most people think. My dealer had Five Edges on his lot. They must not have done a single thing to them prior to the sale. Two weeks after we got it we got the paperwork for the recall. Sounds like the dealership didn't do the repair when the car was in the shop for pre-delivery servicing. What a crock! When it needs it's first oil change I'll write up a laundry list of things for them to check/repair and they can get The Wife something new to drive to work for the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cv27 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 When I had my Edge in for the preventive fix (no leaks, but 15B21 against my VIN), I asked the service guy how long it would be: he mentioned a time based on the 8 he had done in his lot. If you think about it, it does not make sense for a dealer to ignore the issue: reputation, reputation, reputation. If yours did ignore it, it's time to looks else where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Well, the repair must be a LOT harder than most people think. My dealer had Five Edges on his lot. They must not have done a single thing to them prior to the sale. Two weeks after we got it we got the paperwork for the recall. Sounds like the dealership didn't do the repair when the car was in the shop for pre-delivery servicing. What a crock! When it needs it's first oil change I'll write up a laundry list of things for them to check/repair and they can get The Wife something new to drive to work for the day! Well maybe the two weeks between the time when you took delivery and the time you got the paperwork was when Ford published the information. A dealer can't fix a problem if Ford hasn't published the fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlkansascity Posted July 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Here is another new article, with phone number to call if you are experiencing this problem. Although not an official recall, Ford has announced "customer satisfaction program 15B21" after owners complained about water seeping through the A-pillar areas. Ford discovered water could enter a metal joint behind the hood hinge and cause water damage in numerous areas, including the carpet, floorboard, dash and A-pillar areas. http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2015/2015-ford-edge-water-leaks.shtml I'm a FORD fan; I've owned a lot of them in my life. 1989 Mustang GT, 2003 Mustang GT convertible, 2003 7.3 liter 1 ton 4x4 pickup, 2007 Edge among a few. I just think they could do better managing customer satisfaction and reputation by being proactive with issues. Like cv27 says above; reputation, reputation, reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 There is a difference between Ford not being proactive and dealers not being proactive or not following directions. Seems like Ford notified dealers and told them to fix the vehicles before they were sold almost a month ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipster Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Perhaps, but at the end of the day it is customer satisfaction that should be the single prime consideration of both entities. Owners don't care who is @ fault here all they care about is being given the best possible service with as little inconvenience as is possible. Sadly that concept was found lacking here. This standard of service would not be satisfactory on a newly purchased used car and inexcusable on a new one. Edited July 17, 2015 by Chipster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Perhaps, but at the end of the day it is customer satisfaction that should be the single prime consideration of both entities. Owners don't care who is @ fault here all they care about is being given the best possible service with as little inconvenience as is possible. Sadly that concept was found lacking here. This standard of service would not be satisfactory on a newly purchased used car and inexcusable on a new one. Well of course. But Ford can't force the dealers to do anything - they're protected by state franchise laws. It also appears that Ford underestimated both the severity and scope of the affected vehicles so the initial response was maybe less than it should have been. It's not as simple as Best Buy giving you a new TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipster Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Ahhh, that's the rub! Ford should not have to force the dealers to do anything. It is in their collective self interest to make customers happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 Ahhh, that's the rub! Ford should not have to force the dealers to do anything. It is in their collective self interest to make customers happy. You would think that, but a lot of dealers I know simply don't act that way for whatever reason. They provide poor customer service both in sales and service and Ford is powerless to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cv27 Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 You would think that, but a lot of dealers I know simply don't act that way for whatever reason. They provide poor customer service both in sales and service and Ford is powerless to fix it. Ford is powerless to fix it? None the less it's Ford's image that gets hurt in some radius around those non compliant dealers. And with today's media, it's not just that radius around the dealer, it can extend to a much broader audience. The auto industry has been living this type of situation for decades !!! Ford: stop this "it's your fault Mr Dealer, no it's yours Mr Ford" thing, put in some partnership rules and controls with the dealers. It's been done before in other industries. Do you believe a McDonald franchise selling bad quality wouldn't get someone breathing down the franchisee's neck? So maybe you think the dealers won't go for that? I would respond shape up or ship out Mr Dealer. Then you might say the contracts are written up such that corporate Ford has no choice? That's the terrible thing with the law, there's always a different interpretation when you want to get around it. So Ford, redo the contracts: both you and your dealers will benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 Ford is powerless to fix it? None the less it's Ford's image that gets hurt in some radius around those non compliant dealers. And with today's media, it's not just that radius around the dealer, it can extend to a much broader audience. The auto industry has been living this type of situation for decades !!! Ford: stop this "it's your fault Mr Dealer, no it's yours Mr Ford" thing, put in some partnership rules and controls with the dealers. It's been done before in other industries. Do you believe a McDonald franchise selling bad quality wouldn't get someone breathing down the franchisee's neck? So maybe you think the dealers won't go for that? I would respond shape up or ship out Mr Dealer. Then you might say the contracts are written up such that corporate Ford has no choice? That's the terrible thing with the law, there's always a different interpretation when you want to get around it. So Ford, redo the contracts: both you and your dealers will benefit. You don't get it. Every state has Automotive Franchise laws that specifically prohibit Ford or any other mfr from interfering with how a dealership runs their business. They've been around since the 50s and 60s. Ford can't dictate what they charge, which vehicles they buy or don't buy, or any other aspect of their business. They're also not allowed to sell vehicles directly to the public or to service the vehicles they mfr. Years ago Ford tried to institute a Blue Oval Certified program where they would give dealers who got good customer service scores a bigger holdback on each vehicle. Dealers sued Ford and won and the program wasn't implemented. McDonalds has no such laws. And nothing you write into a franchise agreement can supercede these state laws. So yes, Ford is powerless. Do some research on automotive franchise laws and you'll understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cv27 Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 You don't get it. Every state has Automotive Franchise laws that specifically prohibit Ford or any other mfr from interfering with how a dealership runs their business. They've been around since the 50s and 60s. Ford can't dictate what they charge, which vehicles they buy or don't buy, or any other aspect of their business. They're also not allowed to sell vehicles directly to the public or to service the vehicles they mfr. Years ago Ford tried to institute a Blue Oval Certified program where they would give dealers who got good customer service scores a bigger holdback on each vehicle. Dealers sued Ford and won and the program wasn't implemented. McDonalds has no such laws. And nothing you write into a franchise agreement can supercede these state laws. So yes, Ford is powerless. Do some research on automotive franchise laws and you'll understand. This is what I understand: those state laws surely did not intend to encourage bad practices from dealers, but this is what is happening with some of these dealers. I'm not arguing the existence of these state laws, I'm just suggesting it's time to change things, leave that comfortable inertia position of "it's the law, or the rule, or it's always been like this". If it doesn't fit anymore, change it. That will happen if we as customers research dealer reputation and ignore the bad apples. I also think Ford has enough impact to effect change: maybe bad dealers hasn't affected its business enough. One thing for sure though, if we keep saying the situation can't change, well, it won't. Canada doesn’t have laws against car companies selling direct to consumers, but it's not happening. Tesla has attempted to disrupt the antiquated 3rd party dealership model and was met with fierce resistance. Why keep that model? "Because the model benefits the economy", "because it prevents car manufacturers from price fixing". Typical NRA style arguments. My un-researched, unfounded assessment: someone financially benefits from it and it's not the consumer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 18, 2015 Report Share Posted July 18, 2015 The only thing we can do is not do business with bad dealers. The laws are antiquated but dealer associations are powerful lobbyists and they don't want the laws changed at all. Ford would love to have more control over bad dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Hat No Cattle Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Well of course. But Ford can't force the dealers to do anything - they're protected by state franchise laws. You would think that, but a lot of dealers I know simply don't act that way for whatever reason. They provide poor customer service both in sales and service and Ford is powerless to fix it. If Ford has no sway over the level of service that a dealer provides, then why are dealers so anxious to get a 5-star rating on Ford's Customer Satisfaction Survey? I even had one salesman give me a jar of candy while telling me why a 5-star review is important to the dealership. If the dealer feels that Ford can't touch them, why do they get so upset about a bad review? http://consumerist.com/2012/06/14/give-ford-dealership-bad-survey-rating-get-told-you-are-no-longer-welcome-here/ Bought my new 2011 F250 in early June and was told by the salesman that if I bring in the Ford Customer Satisfaction Survey blank he would give me a tank of fuel for free. I believe it affects the whole dealer though, not just the salesmen. When I bought my truck my salesmen also informed me of the "survey". Though he didn't ask me to just give it to him. He had asked that if I felt I needed to mark anything below "excellent" (or whatever the highest mark is) to call and discuss it before hand to see if the issue could be resolved. Google it for more examples. Seems that the Ford Customer Satisfaction Survey means something, no? Maybe more people need to fill them out, exposing their problems, if any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedsly Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 My Edge was produced 5/13 and it's been held up, now 2 months later. I've been given no information regarding how much longer it will be. I'm about ready to cancel my order any buy elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Your dealer should have the info on why its being held. Send a PM to FordService and I'm sure they can check on it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddie Parker Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 As a loyal Ford consumer, with my recent 2015 Ford Edge lease making this my 3rd consecutive Ford lease, I am so disappointed by this car company I previously loved so much. After test driving numerous Ford vehicles, and much deliberation with my husband about potentially buying out my previous 2013 Ford Explorer lease, I decided to sign a new lease of a silver 2015 Ford Edge. The day I made this decision, my car salesman left to have my car be prepped for me to drive it home that day. When he returned, he explained that my vehicle was one of several that had a recall in place for a potential water leak. Obviously, the threw me off and I was clearly concerned that I should revoke my decision and go another route. I was assured that the problem was somewhat normal and nothing to be alarmed about, as the issue was caught early and the fix was as simple as adding some missing rubber to the car. The car was "fixed" and prepped for me to drive off the lot only 3 days later. Less than a month after driving it off the lot I began getting notifications about my power-track steering not working properly. The alert would flash several different warnings, however the car would still work seemingly fine, and turning the car off and starting it again resulted in the warning message disappearing. Approximately a month after this first warning occurred, I had the same thing happen sporadically 3-4 times. I assumed there was some small computer glitch and decided to take the car in when my new tags would be ready in the upcoming weeks. I delivered my car to the servicing department of my local Ford on Friday, July 24th (1 day after paying $500+ for new state tags) and the information that was provided to me about what was wrong with my car was very minimal. Knowing now what a big deal this has become for not just my vehicle, but many others, I am truly offended that the staff was not more upfront and honest with me about my situation. I was told they did not know what the issue was or when the car would be fixed. I was provided minimal information with a lot of vague descriptions of "computer" malfunction and that the service manager was waiting for a different manager to inspect the vehicle, and blah blah blah. A week later I finally received a phone call from the service manager telling me that there was a recall (the same one they "fixed") on my vehicle that was not going to be fixed and Ford Corporate would be getting in touch with me within 2-3 business days. I waited the 3 business days and was contacted by no one. I had to call my local Ford manager, who had to login to some sort of database to read a note on my account that the phone number listed for me had been disconnected. However, no one from Ford Corporate bothered to contact my local Ford or attempt to find a working phone number for me. Anyway, my local Ford manager said that he had updated the phone number I should expect a call later that day (Thursday) or on Friday. Friday - 5:00 rolls around and I haven't heard from anyone. I called my local ford that Saturday pretty frustrated, and was assured I would receive a phone call first thing Monday morning. When this of course did not happen, I proceeded to bother my local manager again. After he bothered Ford Corporate with a phone call every 30 minutes until I was contacted, I finally got a call. The phone call began with the customer service representative going on the defense that this was not her case and she was just taking it on for someone that was out of town, or something similar. She proceeded to patronize me when I demonstrated my frustration saying "I know and I am TRYING to help". Customer service should let you be angry and justify your rightful frustration. Although I understand my frustration is misplaced, as it is not this woman's fault that my vehicle is having these issues, it's her job to make me feel that someone cares, understands exactly how frustrated I am and why, and is doing something about it. After hashing it out with this new woman, who was just another chain in the chain of people I must speak with to resolve this issue entirely, I was told I would be contacted by Friday AT THE LATEST by the reclaimed vehicle department. Amazingly, I had yet to receive a call by 3:00 that Friday. I called the Ford Corporate Customer Service representative to update her with this news, which she requested, and got a call back from her office, but from a different representative. This second representative explained that they the Reclaimed Vehicle Department did have until the end of the day, technically, so I should hear from them before 5:00. Of course, I did not get a call. Today is Monday, and no one called me until, yet again, I put in a phone call to the Ford Corporate number I was given. Hooray, I thought! Finally, someone with all the answers who will take care of the last month of Ford hatred I've been filled with, and replace it with warm and fuzzy happy Ford feelings again. Well, finally I was given an "offer" for the reclaiming of my vehicle and some disappointing answers to my long list of questions. The "offer" that was discussed in no way compensates me for the month, and change, that I have been paying for my vehicle that has not been in my possession. I'll have to be out $500 again to purchase new tags for my new vehicle, while I wait for the state to provide a pro-rated return, which will still put me out money as I "had" the old tags for the last month. The fact that I've been paying $468 a month to drive a very damaged car that I was assured had been repaired, doesn't seem to matter to Ford. My loyalty to Ford does not guarantee their loyalty in return is the message I am getting loud and clear. Essentially, what has been offered to me, is I can sign a new lease of equal or greater value, and Ford will waive up $2,500 in upgrade fees. I cannot take the $2,500 and apply it to my remaining payments and I cannot be given a cut of this money to compensate for all of the frustration, time, and expenses that I have endured due to their damaged product. At this point, I am so outraged, I feel like I should just cut my losses and get out. The customer service I have experienced has been so rotten and poor, that at this point I'd rather consider my losses as my punishment for choosing and investing with Ford, and find a different car company that won't let me down like this when something goes wrong. I have no faith that if the new Ford vehicle i pick out with their "offer" develops problems of its own, I will be compensated and helped out like a customer that matters. I am so disappointed that I honestly just felt the need to share my story and potentially justify the frustration and outrage my fellow Ford Edge consumers are feeling right now. Thanks for listening... Maddie Parker 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 You do realize that Ford could simply fix your vehicle and give it back to you - they're not under any obligation to buy it back, much less give you $2500 in free upgrades. They could just keep fixing it, or at some point telling you that whatever is wrong is normal. The dealer should have given you a free loaner for the last month - if they didn't, shame on them. With some people getting great response from Ford, I suspect that your dealer was at least partly to blame. Ford always has room for improvement in the communication with customers department, but again some of that falls back on the dealer since they are the ones dealing directly with the consumer. It would be nice if Ford simply refunded one month's payment in lieu of the $2500 upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Hat No Cattle Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) You do realize that Ford could simply fix your vehicle and give it back to you - they're not under any obligation to buy it back, True, if Ford is a car company that does not care about its reputation for quality and customer service. I really feel for the people going through this type of horror story. Unfortunately, Ford has apparently not learned from the mistakes of all the other auto manufacturers when dealing with large scale quality problems. It may not help those already involved, but I'm fairly confident that Consumer Reports will "out" this problem, and change their early glowing review of the 2015 Edge to a do-not-buy recommendation. Sad. Hide and watch. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/03/2016-ford-edge-review/index.htm http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/07/stop-sale-finds-ford-edge-under-water/index.htm Edited August 18, 2015 by All Hat No Cattle 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Name another car company who had such a problem and agreed to voluntarily replace customer vehicles with a free $2500 upgrade without a government recall forcing it? I think it's pretty rare. Not saying Ford is without fault here - far from it. But give credit where it's due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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