fit1446 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) so i did a simple install of new rotors and pads. i was sure to hang the calipers so not to stress the brake lines. after install i lost my pedal. should be no reason for that. it still has brakes just steady pressure and pedal slowly goes to the floor. i did bleed brakes although there should have been no reason for it. didnt see any visual sign of leak but am getting ready to pull the wheels off and thoroughly inspect..any other ideas? oh,and only did front rotors ..i have new for the rear as well just havnt done them yet.need to figure out this issue first Edited January 24, 2016 by fit1446 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Classic master cylinder or air in system symptoms. Did you bleed the system in order: RH rear, LH rear, RH front, LH front? If the brake fluid has never been flushed, it might be dirty, and cause similar symptoms as well IME. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fit1446 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Classic master cylinder or air in system symptoms. Did you bleed the system in order: RH rear, LH rear, RH front, LH front? If the brake fluid has never been flushed, it might be dirty, and cause similar symptoms as well IME. no i went LF RF LR RR.....but what i dont understand is how air would even be introduced. i only changed rotors and pads..never had any brake lines open. i should have been able to simply pump 8-12 times and pedal should be back. the brakes work just a totally different pedal. feels mooshy.which normally is more of an oem pad not ceramic . i still have the oem pads and rotors on the rear. i guess im going to swap those and see if anything changes. i just dont see how air would be in the lines? i pulled the wheels back off on the front just now and i dont see anyvisible leaks and i literally bled a whole bottle of fluid always keeping resevoir full and i had straight fluid coming out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fit1446 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 i thought that maybe i did something to the hcu when i seated the pads... 35mph hard brake but no complete stop- 45 mph hard brake but no stop,65 mph hard brake no stop...and then reverse order. but the pedal felt different emmediately upon completion of swap. before i even drove anywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Leaky seals or brake hoses/lines are the only thing I can think of where air could have been introduced in this case. Any issues with the caliper pistons while R&R'ing the pads? Did they retract/extend normally or did the effort feel uneven? If the fluid looks good and the bleed in the order recommended by the manual (above) turns out ok, then move on to testing the master cylinder. Hopefully installing rear pads will fix the issue. What rotors/pads are you putting on? If somehow there is air trapped in the HCU, you could try driving on a gravel road and do some hard braking there. That will engage the ABS and flush out the trapped air. This was a procedure used on older 90's era cars, so may or may not work here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fit1446 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 So I installed rear rotors /pads went to an empty parking lot large enough to get to 45mph and seated these pads. Did set of 4 at 45mph hard brake but just short of abs engage not to complete stop. Parked for 10 min and repeat 4 times. I have brakes it's just a very different pedal than my oem pads. I researched this issue quite a bit and I'm not really sure there is a problem. There seems to be a large difference in feel between ceramic pads and oem pads. I am just used to a very short pedal and now it is about 3 times the distance which when we're talking about a total distance of what, maybe 7 inches? Is quite a bit. Here are the rotors and pads I installed http://m.ebay.com/itm/110994632116?_mwBanner=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fit1446 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 looking for reviews that someone else has dealt with this issue with these rotors and pads but not finding any negative really.which leads me back to the thought that there is an issue....guess i need to isolate the master cylinder next. then move onto hcu,problem is to diagnose that unit i believe i need a diagnostic tool of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autom8r Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Fit1446: I'd inspect the brake lines and make sure they aren't twisted first. It's easy to get excited about your new rotor setup! Happened to me once, extended the travel of the pedal and reduced braking performance the same way. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fit1446 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Yes, I did complete inspection of lines and they are all in good condition and routed exactly as they were. I'm going to isolate master cylinder as I believe this is the issue. Ty for the tips I appreciate your input:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWRBB Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 You didn't let the fluid level run low while bleeding did you? I'd try re-bleeding them. Keep it topped up and be patient. Tap the calipers before and during the bleed. I just did new front rotors and pads last weekend on our 2010. I used Centric premium rotors and Centric Posi-Quiet ceramic pads. I did some bedding afterwards as well, mostly 45~50 MPH to 5 MPH stops. Probably 6-7 stops then a nice cool down without touching them. The feel is just like before, but smoother. The old rotors had rusted from sitting on a car lot and although they improved with mileage/usage, they were never smooth like new brakes are. Something it could be that nobody has mentioned: Rarely does the pedal go to all the way to the floor with normal everyday driving. So there's a chance that some "crud" builds up on the MC rod at the end of normal everyday travel range. When you bleed the brakes, most of the time the pedal is pushed all the way to the floor and then the bleeder screw is closed. When you push that rod further than normal driving would during the bleeding process, there is a chance that "crud" can damage a seal in the MC. This is more typical on an older car with neglected brake fluid- but I'm just throwing it out as a possibility there if nothing else seems to fix your problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fit1446 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 no the fluid level never went low..again,im back to the fact that the pedal felt shitty before i bled...there should have been no reason to bleed brakes,but i did just because it feels like a pedal with air in the lines. but changing rotors and pads should not require bleeding..it should be a simple pedal pump to get pistons back in the correct position...idk im beginning to think im just crazy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbwt Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Just to note: Slotted and drilled decrease surface friction. Look good but decrease your available surface for stopping. Second are the rotors High Carbon rotors or the lower class? Ceramic pads are also not all equal. My last 4 wheel job with High quality high carbon steel rotors and Full ceramic pads ran just about 400 dollars with non slotted rotors. I never go inexpensive with brakes as they are a major safety issue to be able to stop. Essentially what I am saying is if you married up soft steel with spongy cheap ceramic pads you will get this result. Also slotted and drilled rotors fail under heat conditions and cause disk fracturing. Was the bottle of brake fluid brand new or was it an old one you had sitting around? Old brake fluid can absorb water and thus create issues also. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fit1446 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Fluid was new. And yes I knw these are not top of the line rotors, however if they wear and I notice stress at the drill points I will simply replace. But I seriously doubt that under the conditions that my car is driven( which on a daily basis consists of a 5 min drive to the gym and back) that these rotors are going to fail. My car is driven maybe 75 miles a week. These rotors were purchased primarily on an aesthetic basis as I don't want to see a rusty rotor through my wheels. And as far as slotted and drilled rotors being less effective than ones that are not... Is absolutely not true. It all depends on material and wether they were drilled and cut from blanks. Honestly , I am at the point where I believe it IS just the different feel of new material. And as far as cost , I payed right at 400 for rotors and pads. And they definitely stop as I bedded them well. I don't believe I went cheap on brakes but also didn't purchase the top dollar rotors to go racing. I am very conscious of the condition of my edge and if issues arise with these rotors I will just change them.i also like the zinc coating,which will probably wear off over time in the areas that come in contact with the pads.i guess i more started this thread to see if anyone had ever dealt with the different feel of new material vs the oem components.i rebled last night using a vacuum bleeder and no real difference. i guess its just a feel thing,as the breaks work great just a much different feel. Slots increase brake pads bite - Stock rotors do not. Note: The misconception out there is that slotted rotor will heat up because of the added bite and the rotors will over heat. Yes this is true under repetitive use such as on a racetrack or slowing down a heavy load down a steep hill, and the rotors do not have enough time to dissipate the heat. You need heat for the brake pads to work. The problem is, when there is too much heat, the increased bite provided by the slots will raise the brake pad temperature slowing down the vehicle sooner, thus you don't need to be on the brakes as long.\ Holes and slots eject water and prevent Brake Pad hydroplaning - Stock rotor can hydroplane in bad weather.Holes and slots vent gas during brake fade - Stock rotors will fade if the brake pads out-gas.Drilled rotors are lighter - No real advantage over a stock rotor on a road vehicle.Drilled rotors are more prone to crack - Well Stock Rotor can crack too if exposed to excessive thermal shock (Fast Heating and Cooling). if the rotors are chamfered at the holes it helps to relieve the stress caused at the edge when heated thus preventing cracking at these areas i coppied and pasted this as im off to work and low on time but,everyone has opinions about what is right and wrong.however i too care about safety and if i believed that these would compromise not even so much my safety but others more importantly i would not have installed them/. Edited January 26, 2016 by fit1446 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWRBB Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Well after reading all that- it's probably just the pad compound. Didn't realize you drove it prior to bleeding and it felt "off" then as well. Try swapping the pads if it really bothers you. I like you use whatever the local (ie non Autozone, Advance, or Oreliieys) parts store recommends. The manager is a friend of mine. They sell tons of brake parts to small shops and mechanics and get plenty of feedback on what is good and what is crap. Mechanics do want to use the cheapest parts they can, but more importantly they don't want it coming back due to an unhappy customer. Things change over time, so what was good 2 years ago may be produced somewhere else and have issues now. I used to use Raybestos Pro grade parts per they recommendation and always had good luck with it. They've been recommending/stocking Centric the last couple of times I've done brake jobs. Both vehicles I put them on have extremely smooth brakes with plenty of initial bite and a good pedal feel. No complaints with either brand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 The benefits of slotting and drilling are only applicable on a track, not daily driving. For daily driving it's purely aesthetic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fit1446 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 You r correct and that is specifically why I installed.. Astetichs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbwt Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Actually slotted and drilled are not recommended for either application. You won't find them on NASCARS. Also not higher carbon solid steel rotor weep heat away faster. Slotted and drilled rotors also are subject to faster rusting issues due to more permeation in the rotor and opening to allow for rust to grow. Overall resulting in short life for the rotors and pads. My own opinion but hey I only get 175K miles out of my front pads and 225K miles out of my rear pads and rotors so what do I know? The benefits of slotting and drilling are only applicable on a track, not daily driving. For daily driving it's purely aesthetic. Edited January 27, 2016 by macbwt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 AutoX'ing definitely needs high carbon blank rotors. All others tend to crack & wear out much more easily. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1109 Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 I recently did the break pads on my 08 ford edge sel. Now the break pedal is alot harder to push in and there is a hissing noise when break peddle is pushed in. I push the break peddal really hard and there is alot of resistance and the car barely stops. I'm thinking its the break booster but wanted to see if I could get any other opinions on here... Thanx Again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWRBB Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Sounds like the booster. It's a common failure on these vehicles. Search for brake booster and you'll find a ton of info on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fit1446 Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I changed pads... Ceramic pads are just not a good feel for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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