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Ecoboost Turbo lifespan for Edge's?


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16 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   mjonis

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 12:57 PM

I wasn't sure if this should be in the Ecoboost section, as it technically is a Turbo question specific to the Ford (AFAIK).

 

Anyhoo, I was on the Kia forums, and we were discussing the fact that Kia has discontinued the Turbo SXL trim level for 2017.  If you want the highest trim level on the Sorento, you have to get the V6 (ugh).  anyway, someone mentioned that Ford publicly stated that lifespan of the Turbo is 10 years/150,000.

 

Sure enough:

 

https://media.ford.c...rged--dire.html

 

Now, I don't know if the 10 years/150k is specific to JUST the Ecoboost 2.0 or what.

 

But it was an eye opener, especially since I keep the vehicles for 12-15 years.  Dropping 45k on a vehicle and not having a major component like the Turbo not last (obviously that's an "average") 10 years is a bit disconcerting. 

 

Now, I'm not knowledgeable about cars or engines and whatnot, but someone had said that if the Turbo dies, it's possible (depending on how it died) that it could actually ruin the engine if "bits" broke off or something.  Thus, costing a lot more to repair.

 

Is this something to actually factor in when purchasing?  I have no idea if that number is "typical" for ANY turbo, or what.

 

 









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#2 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 01:11 PM

You're misinterpreting.   Ford does endurance testing to 150K miles on all their engines.   That doesn't mean it won't go 300K miles.  

 

It's not going to fail at 151K.

 

Long term (10-15) years reliability of the turbos is unknown.   It would be a bit less risky to stick with the 3.5L NA but I don't think we've seen anything so far that indicates long term problems are expected.   These turbos are designed with the engine and use much better materials than the older ones.


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#3 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 01:44 PM

Quick note (and I have made this point many times before):  maintenance is key to longevity.  At the very least, on a turbo/Ecoboost engine, use good oil & filter, and change like clockwork.  These engines are even more reliant on the oil than naturally aspirated engines.  Oil is not the place to cheap out.


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#4 OFFLINE   mjonis

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 02:52 PM

You're misinterpreting.   Ford does endurance testing to 150K miles on all their engines.   That doesn't mean it won't go 300K miles.  

 

It's not going to fail at 151K.

 

Long term (10-15) years reliability of the turbos is unknown.   It would be a bit less risky to stick with the 3.5L NA but I don't think we've seen anything so far that indicates long term problems are expected.   These turbos are designed with the engine and use much better materials than the older ones.

 

Warning:  Long drifting post here (LOL).

 

I don't think I said I expected it to die, but you have to admit if the average life of something is 10 years and you plan to keep it 12-15 years, that puts you in pretty good spot to have it die before you're done with it.  Although without the actual underlying data, would be hard to tell what the curve is after the "average".

 

Which part of this am I misinterpreting?

 

From Ford:

"In service, the turbo spins at up to 195,000 rpm and is designed for a life cycle of 150,000 miles or 10 years."

 

You state factually that it won't fail at 151k, are you going to insure financially that doesn't happen?  I'm sure you rather meant that it *probably* won't fail at 151k.  And if it's a true median (vs. mean), then 50% will fail prior to 150k or 10 years and 50% after that.

 

I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that it's lifespan is more sensitive to miles driven vs. time.  ie:  You drive 5,000 miles/year (hypothetically speaking), with routine maintenance, the lifespan would theoretically be more than 10 years.  However, the quote from Ford was puzzling to say 150k OR 10 years.

 

Is that like saying, change your oil every 3 months OR 3,000 miles (whichever comes first)?  Although I just saw the Kia manual that doesn't say "whichever comes first", so who decides the "or"?  You or the dealer/warranty supplier?  (Kia oil change manual on the Sorento with Turbo says first oil change at 3,000 miles or 6 months, and subsequent at 5,000 miles or 6 months).

 

Although I did notice the article is from 2010 and I thought I came across a 2011 article that Ford was discontinuing/replacing the 2.0 Ecoboost with something else (maybe the 2.7?), so not sure if that makes things better or not.

 

Anyone know the cost to repair/replace said Turbo?  I mean if the "average" is 10 years, and it's like $2000 for the turbo replacement (assuming it doesn't trash the rest of the engine) upwards of 5k (if it does trash the rest of it), I'd think a 10-year warranty (longer, actually) is probably in order.

 

Unfortunately this is the only manufacturer I can find (at least via google) that publicly stated the lifespan of their Turbo's.  Can't find anything on Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, or Toyota (publicly stating the lifespan, there's all sorts of conjecture on various forums).

 

I mean if it's all turbo's in general get 150k/10 years (how is the 10 year figure derived?  Do we assume national average of 12k miles/year, and if so, why then 10 years as that would be 120k miles if the 150k miles figure is accurate?), then that's one thing.  If it's specific to Ford (but then again, I can't find any other manufacturer that publicly states what the average span is, so I don't know if any other vehicle is better/worse), then I'd think that would also be something to consider.

 

However, even on Hyundai/Kia with the 10-year warranty, I don't know if that would cover the turbo (haven't read that far yet), but I think it's usually Powertrain, whatever that means.

 

 

Although someone mentioned this in regards to turbo repair (and it's greek to me, I don't know):

 

"Did the turbo compressor or turbine wheel loose and fins? even a few tiny pieces will travel and possibly end up in the intake manifold or worse: destroy the piston & cylinder.

Did the turbo line spring a leak (like many Hyundai Santa Fe) are having and the engine run out of oil? that will end up in a new engine quickly.

did the turbo destroy the catalytic converter after the bearings allowed to much play and the wheel lost a piece?"



#5 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 03:13 PM

Ford's response was poorly worded.   All of Ford's engines are designed to last at least 150K miles and ten years.  All that means is they test them and make sure they don't fail before that.   There are many cases of 3.5L engines going 250K or longer (including macbwt here) even though they have the same disclaimer.

 

If the turbo is designed to last 150K miles then there is no reason to think it would fail before the rest of the engine, provided there was proper maintenance.  Today's turbos are much different than the older ones.

 

The original 2.0EB was redesigned, not replaced with the 2.7L.   The biggest change was to head cooling and a switch from a single scroll to a twin scroll turbo.



#6 OFFLINE   DRbillZ

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 03:14 PM

My 16 year old Excursion and VW Beetle turbo diesel turbos are still spinning round and round.
Does that mean our Edge ecoboost turbo will be spinning in 10-15 years?
Uh...I dunno.

#7 OFFLINE   t0lkman

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 04:56 PM

how much would cost me to replace turbo part?

 

let say after 150k I would preventively would like to replace the Turbo?



#8 OFFLINE   DRbillZ

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 05:32 PM

By then you won't even remember there's a turbo in the car. Why replace unless it goes out?
Kinda like saying you'll replace the transmission because it could possibly go out. .... Sometime

#9 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 05:59 PM

Ask your Ford dealer, they can give you the book estimate.

how much would cost me to replace turbo part?

 

let say after 150k I would preventively would like to replace the Turbo?

Parts related:

https://secure.revol...components-scat

 

Location & ease of access will determine the labor from that point.  On the 3.5 twin turbo on a transverse engine, labor time is 2 hrs for front turbo, 6 hours rear turbo.



#10 OFFLINE   t0lkman

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 07:10 PM

By then you won't even remember there's a turbo in the car. Why replace unless it goes out?
Kinda like saying you'll replace the transmission because it could possibly go out. .... Sometime

 

I just wanted to estimate the risk :)



#11 OFFLINE   Gatorman

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 08:44 AM

Thank you for that fine forensic analysis.

#12 OFFLINE   mjonis

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 11:03 AM

Ford's response was poorly worded.   All of Ford's engines are designed to last at least 150K miles and ten years.  All that means is they test them and make sure they don't fail before that.   There are many cases of 3.5L engines going 250K or longer (including macbwt here) even though they have the same disclaimer.

 

If the turbo is designed to last 150K miles then there is no reason to think it would fail before the rest of the engine, provided there was proper maintenance.  Today's turbos are much different than the older ones.

 

The original 2.0EB was redesigned, not replaced with the 2.7L.   The biggest change was to head cooling and a switch from a single scroll to a twin scroll turbo.

 

OK, thanks.  I was hoping that was the answer.  Obviously nobody can predict when something will die, and averages are averages.  It would make sense that, with proper maintenance, 150k miles would be doable (forget when, but wasn't it a while ago that a 100k "engine" was a big deal--I vaguely remember some car commercial about that).

 

If the gas mileage wasn't so poor (IMO) for the V6 (on any vehicle nowaday, looks like 17mpg is about as good as it gets, which I'm surprised that my almost 12 year old Chevy V6 still gets almost 19 city), I'd go for that instead.  Although Ford's $700 "uplift" for the Turbo to V6 is far more reasonable than the Kia $1800 uplift (although that does include third row seat and rear air conditioning--neither of which I want or need).



#13 OFFLINE   mjonis

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 11:04 AM

Ask your Ford dealer, they can give you the book estimate.

Parts related:

https://secure.revol...components-scat

 

Location & ease of access will determine the labor from that point.  On the 3.5 twin turbo on a transverse engine, labor time is 2 hrs for front turbo, 6 hours rear turbo.

 

Thanks for the info!  I didn't know there were front/rear locations.  From what I had heard previously, labor is the big expense if having to fix/repair/replace.



#14 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 11:12 AM

 

Thanks for the info!  I didn't know there were front/rear locations.  From what I had heard previously, labor is the big expense if having to fix/repair/replace.

 

2.7L and 3.5L V6 EB engines have two different turbos, thus the front/rear location.   On the 2.0 there is only one turbo with twin screws.



#15 OFFLINE   mjonis

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 02:14 PM

Well not exactly related to engine life, but since I'm also looking at the Hyundai this does kinda jive with what I've observed so far a well

 

http://bestride.com/...-buck-the-trend

 

 



#16 OFFLINE   Groundpounder

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 10:11 AM

If you're really worried about the turbo failing at 150k miles, then you should just self insure.

 

Example, lets say a turbo replacement will cost $5k, and you think you'll hit 150k miles in 10 years. That is 120 months, so put 42 dollars a month aside, and when you hit 150k, you'll have the cash on hand to replace the turbo. If you don't need the replacement, and you buy a new car, there is $5k you can use for a down payment. 



#17 OFFLINE   tamugrad2013

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 03:10 PM

I do not know about long term turbo lifespan, but mine went in the shop for a broken AC compressor and a transmission issue.  After they had put everything back together they took it out for a test drive, and the car had no power and the CEL came on.  The code read for turbo failure and a replacement one was ordered. My car only has 80,000 miles on it and I had it since it had 12,000 miles on it and I am religious about changing the oil every 5-6,000 miles and using top tier fuels.  Hopefully this is an isolated incident, thankfully this is covered under the premium care extended service plan. 


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