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HIDs

headlight hid mod

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31 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   sarchibald85

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 07:42 AM

 I have a 2010 SEL with stock headlight assembly. Looking at doing a HID conversion and wondering if I can get away with the stock assembly or do I need to buy projectors? Also seeing a lot out there on the new LED headlights; should i be looking into these instead? Thanks!









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#2 OFFLINE   IWRBB

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 08:01 AM

Please do not put HIDs in a reflector housing.  Massive glare for other drivers.  Projectors that are designed for HID lamps would be OK.



#3 OFFLINE   rwf78155

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 08:18 AM

I tried every bulb for my edge and they all sucked.! Finally did the hid kit from daytimebrightlites.com  .... OMG what an amazing product ! Install was about an hour with easy step by step instructions ( I actually went above and beyond and wrapped all the wiring)  Dan at dayrimebrightlites is a member and has awesome products......wish I could afford their taillight kit. !  Dont fall for the cheap imitations on ebay...!



#4 OFFLINE   Nick Halstead

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 08:40 AM

I tried every bulb for my edge and they all sucked.! Finally did the hid kit from daytimebrightlites.com  .... OMG what an amazing product ! Install was about an hour with easy step by step instructions ( I actually went above and beyond and wrapped all the wiring)  Dan at dayrimebrightlites is a member and has awesome products......wish I could afford their taillight kit. !  Dont fall for the cheap imitations on eba)y...!


So what halogens did you try? Halogens will give you more usable light as you have a halogen projector on your edge. HID is just going to be whiter and appear brighter due to foreground lighting

#5 OFFLINE   rwf78155

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 02:13 PM

So what halogens did you try? Halogens will give you more usable light as you have a halogen projector on your edge. HID is just going to be whiter and appear brighter due to foreground lighting

 

The only ones Id even consider were the Piaa Ultrawhite ... They were the best ot the many I tried. I still have them in my garage workshop...gathering dust

 

HID's are so much brighter and project 2X the beam of the halogens


Edited by rwf78155, 03 August 2016 - 02:30 PM.


#6 OFFLINE   Nick Halstead

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 08:17 AM

Osram night breaker are better. I like function over looks. I personally would have kept the halogens. Like I said, they have more usable light due to the projector being designed for a halogen bulb.
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#7 OFFLINE   TheWizard

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 09:25 AM

HID capsules in a halogen projector will generally produce significantly more usable light in basically the same pattern as the original halogen bulb when used for low beams.  It's when switching to high beams that the HID pattern suffers - not only with more foreground light but also with lots of scatter.  This is because, unlike reflector lamps, the beam focus is handled by the front lens rather than mirrors around the light source.  When using low beams, the shutter in front of the capsule/bulb blocks close to half of the output, essentially eliminating the excess that causes the light scatter and glare and allowing the lens to focus the light appropriately.  You will see that the light output pattern on low beam is almost exactly the same with HID capsules as with halogen bulbs. 

 

However, when you switch to high beam, the different position, shape and orientation of the HID arc compared to a halogen bulb filament causes light to pass through the lens from angles that were not intended by the lamp designers.  That's why you will see so many complaints about "useless" high beams on HID conversions - they light up the road directly in front of the vehicle along with the tree tops alongside the road.

 

The saving grace here is that the greater light output of the HIDs usually reduces the need for high beam use for most people but it is still something to be aware of.  The best option for a conversion is when you have separate high and low beams rather than a single projector with a moving shutter... that allows using HIDs for the low beam and retaining halogen for the separate high beams.  That setup (HID low beams and OEM halogen high beams) has worked very well for my wife's Sorento.


Edited by TheWizard, 04 August 2016 - 08:27 PM.

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#8 OFFLINE   sarchibald85

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:18 AM

HID capsules in a halogen projector will generally produce significantly more usable light in basically the same pattern as the original halogen bulb when used for low beams.  It's when switching to high beams that the HID pattern suffers - not only with more foreground light but also with lots of scatter.  This is because, unlike reflector lamps, the beam focus is handled by the front lens rather than mirrors around the light source.  When using low beams, the shutter in front of the capsule/bulb blocks close to half of the output, essentially eliminating the excess that causes the light scatter and glare and allowing the lens to focus the light appropriately.  You will see that the light output pattern on low beam is almost exactly the same with HID capsules as with halogen bulbs.  However, when you switch to high beam, the different position, shape and orientation of the HID arc compared to a halogen bulb filament causes light to pass through the lens from angles that were not intended by the lamp designers.  That's why you will see so many complaints about "useless" high beams on HID conversions - they light up the road directly in front of the vehicle along with the tree tops alongside the road. The saving grace here is that the greater light output of the HIDs usually reduces the need for high beam use for most people but it is still something to be aware of.  The best option for a conversion is when you have separate high and low beams rather than a single projector with a moving shutter... that allows using HIDs for the low beam and retaining halogen for the separate high beams.  That setup (HID low beams and OEM halogen high beams) has worked very well for my wife's Sorento.

So what you're saying is if I use the stock housing with HID kit for the low beam, I'll still be OK and won't produce the glare effect that causes so much grief? Were the edge has separate lighting for high and low i was only going to convert the low setup but didn't want to bother too much at this time if i needed to look into projector lenses.



#9 OFFLINE   sarchibald85

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:19 AM

Also thanks all for the info and quick responses



#10 OFFLINE   TheWizard

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Posted 04 August 2016 - 10:27 AM

So what you're saying is if I use the stock housing with HID kit for the low beam, I'll still be OK and won't produce the glare effect that causes so much grief? Were the edge has separate lighting for high and low i was only going to convert the low setup but didn't want to bother too much at this time if i needed to look into projector lenses.

 

What I'm saying is that if your low beams are halogen projectors, you can install an HID kit and it will work well.  Never ever install HIDs in halogen reflector housings.  Photos I've seen of 2010 Edges appear to have reflector headlamps so HID is not a good idea.


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#11 OFFLINE   Nick Halstead

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 02:10 AM

So what you're saying is if I use the stock housing with HID kit for the low beam, I'll still be OK and won't produce the glare effect that causes so much grief? Were the edge has separate lighting for high and low i was only going to convert the low setup but didn't want to bother too much at this time if i needed to look into projector lenses.

We all have different standards, I'm not one to take shortcuts so I'm either doing it right the first time or not doing it at all. A Halogen projector will still give you glare, it's impossible to get rid of glare without running the right bulb and modding the headlights. With that said. Halogen projectors give off way less glare than Halogen reflective lenses when HIDs are put it. I still wouldn't do it though.



#12 OFFLINE   macbwt

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 04:50 AM

I agree with Nick on the reflectors type housings. Not a good idea at all as there is no control on the light and others approaching you may not be able to see due to many issues.  I know when I had cataracts even regular lights caused issue from approaching vehicles so the HID lights in some reflectors cause a great loss of night vision.  Just my 2 cents.

 

I however have installed HID lights into my 2011 Ford Edge Halogen projectors and have seen a benefit to the visible light while driving at night. No one has flashed me or indicated the light is too bright. The shutters are functioning and so far working well.  Would I like to have HID projector lenses. YES.   My wifes Edge has them and they are better then my HID mod on the other Edge.  Her HID lights are sharper and better.


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#13 OFFLINE   TheWizard

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 07:59 AM

We all have different standards, I'm not one to take shortcuts so I'm either doing it right the first time or not doing it at all. A Halogen projector will still give you glare, it's impossible to get rid of glare without running the right bulb and modding the headlights. With that said. Halogen projectors give off way less glare than Halogen reflective lenses when HIDs are put it. I still wouldn't do it though.

 

No, this is often stated as though it was fact but is really only true with reflector lamps.  The position, orientation, size and shape of the light source (the filament in halogen bulbs and the arc in HID capsules) is critical in reflectors because the mirrors are precisely shaped and positioned to reflect the source light in a controlled pattern.  A projector's light source is far less critical because the focus is handled by the front lens and the shape is handled by the cutoff shield in front of the bulb/capsule.

 

Yes, there are differences between halogen projectors and HID projectors... most commonly that HID projectors have a wider opening in the cutoff shield to take advantage of the more lumens and produce a wider light pattern.  But those differences don't mean that HIDs in a halogen projector won't work properly, just that HIDs will work even better in an HID projector that can make full use of the capabilities.

 

I've personally installed dozens of HID conversions in various vehicles with halogen projectors and always had good results.  The beam pattern produced by the HID conversion is the same as the pattern was with the original halogen bulbs except much brighter.  But for those who get all their information from the internet, here's a quick video I found from some guy comparing the output of OEM halogen projector on one side and an HID conversion on the other side of the same vehicle:  https://www.youtube....h?v=bIs8WPiNOgg . You will see that the pattern is the same but the HID is much brighter. 

 

Here's a comparison of the factory HID projector and halogen projector from the same car:  https://www.hidplane...2400#post282400 . You'll see that although there are some differences designed to enhance the HID's capabilities, the two lamps are essentially the same.

 

Obviously, the quality of the projector lamp is a big factor.  I did a conversion once where the cutoff seemed to be fuzzy and unfocused so I thought something had gone wrong until I put the original halogen bulbs back and realized that the fuzziness was there even with the original bulb and was a factor of the lens in that particular lamp.

 

So yes, if you want the absolute best possible lighting then retrofitting complete HID projector lamps is the way to go.  But if you want to improve your lighting without that kind of expenditure and amount of modification, then an HID kit in a good halogen projector is a perfectly acceptable solution.  But again... never put HIDs in a halogen reflector lamp unless you want to be that jackass that annoys everybody else on the road.


Edited by TheWizard, 08 August 2016 - 08:02 AM.

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#14 OFFLINE   Tjm623

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 08:53 AM

Thanks Wizard for the detailed information and providing proof to support your opinion.

It seems there are some people here who comment on every single HID thread saying you will blind people and it is not an upgrade to use an HID kit in halogen projectors. All the while providing no evidence of such.

#15 OFFLINE   Nick Halstead

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 06:05 AM

 

No, this is often stated as though it was fact but is really only true with reflector lamps.  The position, orientation, size and shape of the light source (the filament in halogen bulbs and the arc in HID capsules) is critical in reflectors because the mirrors are precisely shaped and positioned to reflect the source light in a controlled pattern.  A projector's light source is far less critical because the focus is handled by the front lens and the shape is handled by the cutoff shield in front of the bulb/capsule.

 

Yes, there are differences between halogen projectors and HID projectors... most commonly that HID projectors have a wider opening in the cutoff shield to take advantage of the more lumens and produce a wider light pattern.  But those differences don't mean that HIDs in a halogen projector won't work properly, just that HIDs will work even better in an HID projector that can make full use of the capabilities.

 

I've personally installed dozens of HID conversions in various vehicles with halogen projectors and always had good results.  The beam pattern produced by the HID conversion is the same as the pattern was with the original halogen bulbs except much brighter.  But for those who get all their information from the internet, here's a quick video I found from some guy comparing the output of OEM halogen projector on one side and an HID conversion on the other side of the same vehicle:  https://www.youtube....h?v=bIs8WPiNOgg . You will see that the pattern is the same but the HID is much brighter. 

 

Here's a comparison of the factory HID projector and halogen projector from the same car:  https://www.hidplane...2400#post282400 . You'll see that although there are some differences designed to enhance the HID's capabilities, the two lamps are essentially the same.

 

Obviously, the quality of the projector lamp is a big factor.  I did a conversion once where the cutoff seemed to be fuzzy and unfocused so I thought something had gone wrong until I put the original halogen bulbs back and realized that the fuzziness was there even with the original bulb and was a factor of the lens in that particular lamp.

 

So yes, if you want the absolute best possible lighting then retrofitting complete HID projector lamps is the way to go.  But if you want to improve your lighting without that kind of expenditure and amount of modification, then an HID kit in a good halogen projector is a perfectly acceptable solution.  But again... never put HIDs in a halogen reflector lamp unless you want to be that jackass that annoys everybody else on the road.

the youtube video is horrible, both cutoffs are horrible and you can CLEARLY see the light bleeding up in the HID and what looks like cheap horrible aftermarket spyder lights in the chevy.
Then you referenced a post almost a decade old...smh. No reputable shop will tell you to put HIDs in Halogen projectors.

Here is a RECENT video. Here you can see the light bleeding up from the halogen projector on the wall.



#16 OFFLINE   Nick Halstead

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 06:23 AM

Thanks Wizard for the detailed information and providing proof to support your opinion.

It seems there are some people here who comment on every single HID thread saying you will blind people and it is not an upgrade to use an HID kit in halogen projectors. All the while providing no evidence of such.

Just for you...


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#17 OFFLINE   TheWizard

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:10 AM

the youtube video is horrible, both cutoffs are horrible and you can CLEARLY see the light bleeding up in the HID and what looks like cheap horrible aftermarket spyder lights in the chevy.
Then you referenced a post almost a decade old...smh. No reputable shop will tell you to put HIDs in Halogen projectors.

 

The age of the video has nothing to do with it... physics doesn't change over time.  And my point was that the pattern is the same for halogen and HID out of the same projector.  If it's a good projector they will be equally good.  And if it's a bad projector they will be equally bad.

 

As I said, I'll stack my personal experience actually installing and testing dozens of conversions against someone's internet browsing any time.  How many have you done?


Edited by TheWizard, 09 August 2016 - 07:11 AM.


#18 OFFLINE   Nick Halstead

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:28 AM

 

The age of the video has nothing to do with it... physics doesn't change over time.  And my point was that the pattern is the same for halogen and HID out of the same projector.  If it's a good projector they will be equally good.  And if it's a bad projector they will be equally bad.

 

As I said, I'll stack my personal experience actually installing and testing dozens of conversions against someone's internet browsing any time.  How many have you done?

How many PNP kits have I installed, lots, almost every car I owned up untill 2012 had a PNP HID kit and did it for everyone that wanted it done.

you know just cause you install something doesn't mean you know the difference between "it fits" and "it works properly" every autoshop sells HID kits, that doesn't mean they know how to properly use them. Thats like saying my feet are a size 10 but because my foot fits inside a size 15 shoe, I'm still good to go run 2 mile race.


Edited by Nick Halstead, 09 August 2016 - 07:29 AM.


#19 OFFLINE   Tjm623

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 07:37 AM

Multiple people have posted pictures of actual Edge's( the forum we are on) showing they work and light is usable and same cut off. So you post a video of a Subaru to prove your point?

#20 OFFLINE   Nick Halstead

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:08 AM

Multiple people have posted pictures of actual Edge's( the forum we are on) showing they work and light is usable and same cut off. So you post a video of a Subaru to prove your point?

where are these pics? I haven't seen any that show the same cutoff with no bleeding light and no foreground light. 
actually I posted a video of a HID BULB IN A HALOGEN PROJECTOR Vs a HID bulb in a HID Projector.







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