3rd Brake light 2015 Edge question

[vega]

How do you remove the 3rd (high) brake light housing? It doesn't seem to want to pry out. Don't want to force it. Yet.

[roots57]

looks like there are screws holding it in, not sure how to access the screws, but it may include removing the trim panel underneath the rear roof extension.

 

[vega]

Well, I gave up on removing the third brake light. I wanted to put in a flashing module. I found that the trim from underneath popped right out. From there, I found the harness connection to the light and spliced in a connector which in turn hooked into the module. Oh, by the way, because of Ford's modulated type of current, the only module I got to work was Signal Dynamics Backoff. type 1001 (which is the original). Now the third brake light quickly flashes 5 times and then steady on when the brakes are applied.

[TheWizard]

Although that seems to be becoming all the rage lately, a flashing brake light is illegal in most states (it falls under the section of flashing red lights other than turn signals are reserved for first responders). Not to mention they are incredibly annoying in traffic.

[vega]

That may be true but I see them all the time. On a Kia, it's standard equipment from the factory. As to being annoying, that's the point. Too many drivers are asleep out there. I have three cars and have a flasher on each. I'm tired of getting rear ended at stops with the obligatory, "Oh sorry, I didn't see you."

Edited October 30, 2017 by vega

[TheWizard]

You may have a "helpful" local Kia dealer installing them on new vehicles before delivery but they don't come that way from the factory. We have a local Chevy dealer doing that.

[akirby]

Definitely illegal due to federal regulations and therefore not available from the factory on any vehicle. Mercedes got permission to test them on a few vehicles a few years ago but that was it.

[akirby]

My thoughts on this are the same as DRLs. If someone is looking, they'll see the vehicle or the standard brake lights just fine. I think most accidents are caused by people not looking at all in which case these or DRLs won't help.

 

That said the US lighting regulations are as old and outdated as disco and bell bottom jeans.

[TheWizard]

I like bell bottom jeans - they cover my big feet better.

[akirby]

I like bell bottom jeans - they cover my big feet better.

 

That said the US lighting regulations are as old and outdated as disco and bell bottom jeans. TheWizard.

 

Fixed.

[vega]

The federal law is a safety standard by which all manufacturers must follow while State law governs lighting you display on your vehicle while in use. For me, Illinois prohibits all flashing lights with various exceptions for emergency vehicles. The statute prohibits flashing which in turn is defined as continuous. Three flash then steady brake light is not continuous. It can be easily be replicated by pumping your brakes. Don't know about other states.

[akirby]

State laws cannot override DOT regulations.

[vega]

Yes I understand the law and federal preemption but a state trooper cannot write you a federal violation ticket, only one based on state statute. I will risk the ticket. Pretty stupid antiquated federal DOT laws out there. Always twenty years behind. I just can't wait.

Edited October 31, 2017 by vega

[akirby]

Nobody said you’d get a ticket for it, just that it’s technically illegal and mostly annoying.

 

DOT is 20 years behind (or more). But this isn’t necessarily one of those things that need to be fixed.

[omar302]

Like what Akirby stated, flashing brake lights are annoying. The way some German vehicles have it, that the brake lights and/or turn signals would flash with brakes, only in case of hard/emergency braking, in my opinion is the right way, especially the amber turn signals.

[enigma-2]

State laws cannot override DOT regulations.

Actually they don't. The federal FMVSS applies only to vehicle manufactures; while state DOT laws (which mirror the FMVSS) govern the operation of your vehicle on public thoroughfares.

[TheWizard]

I agree with akirby... adding flashing to an already distinct third brake light is not going to make any difference. Stupid drivers behind you aren't going to see a flashing light any more than they would see any of your brake lights if they are looking at their phones. And if they are looking at the road then then they'll easily see your brake lights even without them flashing.

 

We used to put brake light flashers on motorcycles (that's what the Signal Dynamics kit is intended for) because they generally have much smaller tail lights and the flashing made them more visible from a distance (up close it made no difference) but cages (four wheel vehicles) have sufficient brake lighting to be easily visible to anyone who is looking. The flashers are simply an annoying gimmick with no real value.

Edited October 31, 2017 by TheWizard

[akirby]

Actually they don't. The federal FMVSS applies only to vehicle manufactures; while state DOT laws (which mirror the FMVSS) govern the operation of your vehicle on public thoroughfares.

 

State DOTs can't override the Federal regulations. They can go beyond the federal regulations - making them more stringent but they can't choose to ignore a FMVSS regulation. E.g. FMVSS states you can only have 4 lamps illuminated on the front of the vehicle at one time. States cannot change that to allow 6.

 

 

(d) Whenever a Federal motor vehicle safety standard established

under this title is in effect, no State or political subdivision of a

State shall have any authority either to establish, or to continue in

eft'ect, with respect to any motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle

equipment any safety standard applicable to the same aspect of performance

of such vehicle or item of equipment which is not identical

to the Federal standard.

[omar302]

 

E.g. FMVSS states you can only have 4 lamps illuminated on the front of the vehicle at one time.

 

So that's why fog lights turn off when the high beams are turned on? Good then we have a Bambi MOD. Lol.

[akirby]

So that's why fog lights turn off when the high beams are turned on?

 

That is exactly why because High + Low beams = 4 lamps. Fog lights would make it 6.

[TheWizard]

True, although there are vehicle models that turn off the fog lights with high beams despite not having discrete high beam lamps (i.e. bi-xenon projector lamps that switch to high beam without illuminating additional lamps) where the high beams and fog lights would amount to only four lamps. Presumably this is because fog lights make little sense for use with high beams - a fog light is designed to illuminate immediately in front of the vehicle at a low level to cut under fog and precipitation whereas high beams are designed for completely opposite use (higher up and greater distance). Many of them are controlled by the simple trick of having the fog lights ground through the power side of the high beam circuit... when the high beams are on, there is no ground available to the fog lights so they shut off.

Edited October 31, 2017 by TheWizard

[akirby]

That's correct - it was just an example of how the rules get enforced.

 

Also why things that don't meet the standard have to be sold as "off road only".

[Nick Halstead]

fogs off during high beams is a safety concern. Goes back to the rule of not using high beams in fog and blinding yourself. To prevent and program people to not use high beams during fogs, make the lights they really want to use turn off. Also, fog lights are supposed to be turned off when closer than 200ft behind another car. There's lots of lighting rules and each state has their own odd rules too regarding lights

[TheWizard]

... Also, fog lights are supposed to be turned off when closer than 200ft behind another car. There's lots of lighting rules and each state has their own odd rules too regarding lights

 

That's a new one to me. There are rules about distance when using high beams (not within 500 feet oncoming or 300 feet following) but here in Florida the only restriction on fog lights (other than mounting and aiming) is that there can't be more than four total forward facing lights of more than 300 candlepower and that they may be used with low beam headlights.

 

 

Florida Statutes 316.233

 

(2) FOG LAMPS.—Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two fog lamps mounted on the front at a height not less than 12 inches nor more than 30 inches above the level surface upon which the vehicle stands and so aimed that when the vehicle is not loaded none of the high intensity portion of the light to the left of the center of the vehicle shall at a distance of 25 feet ahead project higher than a level of 4 inches below the level of the center of the lamp from which it comes. Lighted fog lamps meeting the above requirements may be used with lower headlamp beams as specified in section 316.237(1).

 

I am curious why there would be distance restrictions on fog lights as they (like low beam headlights) are required to be aimed in such a way as to prevent their light from being in the eyes of other drivers.

[enigma-2]

 

State DOTs can't override the Federal regulations. They can go b7eyond the federal regulations - making them more stringent but they can't choose to ignore a FMVSS regulation.

Believe that's what I said. The FMVSS applies only the manufacturers of motor vehicles, and state DOT laws apply to motorists, how the operate their cars, how and whit what they can modify, etc. All state DOT laws mirror the FMVSS as to what every car must meet as a minimum.

 

In exceeding the Federal Standards, states have differing laws as to light flashing, colors, max luminosity, etc. For example, here in Indiana, the state code address neon underlighting (which is not addressed in the FMVSS). The state law limits the neon license plate lighting to white only, and the underside, all combinations of red, white, blue and amber are illegal.

(Purple is a combination of red and blue).

.

Edited October 31, 2017 by enigma-2