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Shifter handle


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38 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:41 PM

 

Have you ever driven, you yourself, a ferrari on a race track?  I doubt it, because you're coming across like a 12 yr old trying to one up argue his friends.

 

Seriously, you've lost all credibility by comparing real life street cars with Gran Turismo and a logitech steering wheel.

 

Next you're gong to tell me you're on the level of navy seal because you play call of duty.  

 

I actually have driven a ferrari 458 (and a porsche 911 GT3 and an Audi A8) on a real racetrack and I have video to prove it.   I was using the game controls to illustrate why it's perfectly fine to have the paddles attached to the wheel and that you can easily shift even if the wheel is turned 180 degrees.  I've aldo driven cars with stick shifts, cars with electronic shifting on the console and cars with paddle shifters.

 

First you said that paddles are attached to the column and therefore unsuitable except for cars where the wheel doesn't turn much.   That was completely incorrect.  They are attached to the wheel.

 

Why did older race cars (and some current ones) use a console shifter?  Because they were using a mechanical shift linkage.  You can't use paddle shifters to shift a mechanical transmission.    With the move to electronically controlled transmissions came paddle shifters.

 

It is inherently safer to keep both hands on the wheel than it is to take one hand off the wheel every time you need to shift.  Insisting otherwise is silly.









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#22 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 03:42 PM

BTW - it's ok if you prefer a console shifter over paddle shifters.   You don't have to justify it.



#23 OFFLINE   commbubba19

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:28 PM

 

I actually have driven a ferrari 458 (and a porsche 911 GT3 and an Audi A8) on a real racetrack and I have video to prove it.   I was using the game controls to illustrate why it's perfectly fine to have the paddles attached to the wheel and that you can easily shift even if the wheel is turned 180 degrees.  I've aldo driven cars with stick shifts, cars with electronic shifting on the console and cars with paddle shifters.

 

First you said that paddles are attached to the column and therefore unsuitable except for cars where the wheel doesn't turn much.   That was completely incorrect.  They are attached to the wheel.

 

Why did older race cars (and some current ones) use a console shifter?  Because they were using a mechanical shift linkage.  You can't use paddle shifters to shift a mechanical transmission.    With the move to electronically controlled transmissions came paddle shifters.

 

It is inherently safer to keep both hands on the wheel than it is to take one hand off the wheel every time you need to shift.  Insisting otherwise is silly.

 

 

I said flappy paddles came from f1.  didn't say which style.

 

f1 cars do have them on the wheel because the wheel does not turn very much.  therefore the driver always knows where the paddle is.

 

on race cars derived from street cars and high end street cars, most have large paddles attached to the column much like explained by doug.  others have moved to the wheel.  the problem occurs as soon as you go hand over hand, you've lost the location of the paddle (on the street, rare on track).

 

however, many other race cars like i already mentioned, use a sequential console style.  

 

my point is, for a STREET based vehicle, such as the edge.  Having steering mounted paddles is for marketing.  not to actually improve street driving dynamics.  a sequential style shifter on the console is far more practical.

 

go try what i asked you to do and be in sport mode with the gear selector in 1 at a stop turning right into the inside lane and try to keep your right hand near the shift paddle.  you can't.  you will have to look down to upshift or be some sort of contortionist or simply rev it out in 1st until you straighten out the steering wheel and can flick the paddle.  it's dumb for street driving.  to argue about what's best on a road course is pointless considering an edge (and most street cars with flappy paddles) will never see a road course.

 

and yes i call bs on the whole keep both hands on the wheel at all times crap.



#24 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 05:08 PM

Perhaps you misunderstand what it means to have the paddles attached to the wheel.   The paddles are at the 3 and 9 o'clock position all the time.  You hands are at 3 and 9 or 2 and 10 and your hands always have access to the paddles no matter how far you turn right or left.  That's why you can always find the paddle to shift - you don't have to hunt for it or look for it - it's right there.  

 

Unless you're saying that you don't keep your hands at 3 and 9 and you move them around on the wheel while you're driving.  But that's not recommended.   You keep your hands in the same place with access to the paddles.   

 

And if you insist on claiming that one hand on the wheel is just as good and safe as two hands then we can just stop the discussion now because you're being irrational.



#25 OFFLINE   commbubba19

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:48 AM

Perhaps you misunderstand what it means to have the paddles attached to the wheel.   The paddles are at the 3 and 9 o'clock position all the time.  You hands are at 3 and 9 or 2 and 10 and your hands always have access to the paddles no matter how far you turn right or left.  That's why you can always find the paddle to shift - you don't have to hunt for it or look for it - it's right there.  

 

Unless you're saying that you don't keep your hands at 3 and 9 and you move them around on the wheel while you're driving.  But that's not recommended.   You keep your hands in the same place with access to the paddles.   

 

And if you insist on claiming that one hand on the wheel is just as good and safe as two hands then we can just stop the discussion now because you're being irrational.

 

 

So you've never been on a 500 mile drive and taken one hand off the wheel?  Do you feel less safe if/when you do?  Doesn't matter, let's stay on topic or at least more so.

 

Speaking just to driving on the street, you're assumption is that your hands always stay at 9 and 3 when making a turn.  It is impossible to turn a vehicle from lock to lock while your hands remain at 9 and 3.



#26 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 11:23 AM

I'm NOT talking about everyday driving - I've already said there is no benefit to using the paddles in everyday driving except to occasionally force a downshift or hold a gear.  If you're only using it occasionally it doesn't matter where they put the controls.

 

I'm talking about high performance driving and it is possible to keep your hands at 9 and 3 the whole time.   I've done it on a racetrack with 90 degree + turns.  It's not that difficult.   I didn't actually use the paddles but I could have if necessary because my hands never had to move.

 

There is no point continuing to argue - if you prefer the console shifter that's great.  Others prefer the paddles.  On the street it really doesn't matter.



#27 OFFLINE   tmarsh

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 01:05 PM

And I prefer the buttons on the shifter. Which this argument has nothing to do with my original post.

I did research and found a shifter to fit. Once I get it installed and working I will report back. It really wont be difficult to do.

Edited by tmarsh, 14 November 2017 - 01:06 PM.

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#28 OFFLINE   commbubba19

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:01 PM

I'm NOT talking about everyday driving - I've already said there is no benefit to using the paddles in everyday driving except to occasionally force a downshift or hold a gear.  If you're only using it occasionally it doesn't matter where they put the controls.

 

I'm talking about high performance driving and it is possible to keep your hands at 9 and 3 the whole time.   I've done it on a racetrack with 90 degree + turns.  It's not that difficult.   I didn't actually use the paddles but I could have if necessary because my hands never had to move.

 

There is no point continuing to argue - if you prefer the console shifter that's great.  Others prefer the paddles.  On the street it really doesn't matter.

 

but the edge isn't a race car.  so if you're not racing it, when would you use the paddles?  just like you said, at random times and infrequent.  so then why not just have them on the console?  marketing gimmick, that's why (and what I've been saying).  my point this whole time is normal street cars having flappy paddles is stupid no matter where they are.  They are street cars, not race cars.

 

i've raced manuals, steering mounted paddles, and sequential style.  manual is best, but because i prefer a manual on track, i tend to prefer sequential style as well.  i hate flappy paddles.  just stupid.

 

I'll be interested in the OP's findings.  The shifter mechanism internally hopefully is the same across both generations.  The issue may come up if the wiring is integrated into the vehicle CANBUS.  That may cause headaches getting it to work correctly with the shifter handle.  Keep us posted.   :rockon:



#29 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 05:12 PM

 

 i hate flappy paddles.  just stupid.

 

So why not just stop at "I hate flappy paddles" and leave it at that.   Other people like them and don't have a problem using them.  



#30 OFFLINE   candurin

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:41 PM

Feeling nostalgic. I remember the first "autostick" I drove was my buddy's Eagle Vision back in the mid 90's (it was his father's actually).

That car was on Olds looking Mitsubishi knockoff sedan and we had a blast taking that thing back and fourth from school.

Edited by candurin, 14 November 2017 - 07:42 PM.


#31 OFFLINE   tmarsh

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 08:38 PM

So I got this project finished up today. Start to finish took me 2 hours. Half of that was trying to find a service manual online for access to the wiring schematics. 

 

There are only 3 wires, shift up, shift down, and common. No programming, simple circuitry.

 

I used a shift handle from an MK3 focus (12-current), $40 on eBay. Same leather, same brushed chrome finish. Only removed enough of the center console to get to get the shift handle off. Ran a multi conductor wire from shifter to steering column. Pulled the 3 pins from the clock spring for the paddle shifters, and replaced them with the new wires to the shift handle.

 

If you feel inclined to do this, you could use both the paddles and the shift handle in parallel, just tap the new wires into the existing instead of re pinning the connector.

I did this to use my paddles for something else, I needed two momentary switches and preferred my shifting be done from the shift handle. My opinion, no further argument needed.

 

If anyone wanted to tackle this, or anything else electrical related, id be glad to help.


Edited by tmarsh, 19 November 2017 - 08:40 PM.

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#32 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 04:36 AM

So this is like the shift knob you used?

s-l1600.jpg



#33 OFFLINE   tmarsh

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:33 AM

So this is like the shift knob you used?
s-l1600.jpg


Yes. Exactly that.
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#34 OFFLINE   commbubba19

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 09:34 AM

I'm surprised the shifter handle was plug/play.



#35 OFFLINE   tmarsh

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:13 AM

Well not necessarily plug and play. The handle fits on the shift assembly, because its the same thing but with buttons on the side of it. Unbolt the old one and bolt up the new one, but you still have to wire it in at the steering column to make the buttons work for select shift, as I said in my earlier post.

Edited by tmarsh, 20 November 2017 - 11:14 AM.


#36 OFFLINE   tmarsh

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:17 AM

I will get some pictures of the location on the steering column, the old shifter so you can see how it mounts, and post the wiring schematic on the subject later today.
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#37 OFFLINE   commbubba19

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 11:40 AM

I will get some pictures of the location on the steering column, the old shifter so you can see how it mounts, and post the wiring schematic on the subject later today.

 

 

Yeah Pics would be great.  Props for diving into the unknown like that.  I knew the wiring wouldn't be an issue.  I'm just surprised the shifter mechanism swapped over so easily.



#38 OFFLINE   tmarsh

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 08:41 PM

Lol. Im a tinkerer. If I have free time, Im messing with something. So more often then not, I dive into the unknown on something.

My other problem is once I get an idea in my head, theres no stopping till its done.

 

Heres the shifter.

Attached File  IMG_7377.JPG   182.98KB   0 downloadsAttached File  IMG_7378.JPG   76.44KB   0 downloads

The only one I could find that had both buttons and leather was from a focus. The C-Max has leather but only has an overdrive button. The Fusion does not have it in leather. I did not check for the Escape. But all the other models I didn't list have different shifters. Getting the shifter out is a process. Start with removing the upper side trim of the center console. Followed by removing the cup holders. The rest is self explanitory.

 

On the steering column, to get it apart there is a hex head bolt and a torx screw. Once it is apart, here is what you are looking at.

Attached File  IMG_7367.JPG   215.06KB   0 downloads

The plug for the clock spring is in the red circle, kinda hard to see. All of the steering wheel buttons go through this plug, the airbag is in the plug on the other side, so don't worry about that.

 

Here are the schematics for the wiring and the plug.

The circuit in general. The signal is sent from the PCM to both paddle switches. When a switch is pressed, it closes the circuit and sends the signal back to the PCM. Simple stuff there.

Attached File  Screen Shot 2017-11-18 at 9.15.41 PM.png   111.19KB   0 downloads

 

Here is the pinout of the clock spring connector, C226. Even though this is directly out of a 15 edge service manual, the wires on my 15 sport were not the color listed on the chart. In fact none of them were the same. It happens. You can verify by pins used or by the wire gauge of the wires in it, for those that might not know, the larger the number the smaller the wire.

Attached File  Screen Shot 2017-11-18 at 9.33.36 PM.png   109.06KB   0 downloads

 

Here is the pin location on the connector C226. This view is of a male plug, looking at it head on. Most connectors have the pins labeled on the face of them. The face is opposite of the side the wires come in on. For those that don't know.

Attached File  Screen Shot 2017-11-22 at 8.15.47 PM.png   93.55KB   0 downloads

 

The shifter I ordered, had black brown and white wires. The black wire is the common, and will get connected to pin 11. Brown wire is shift up and connects to pin 10. White wire was shift down, and connects to pin 9.

 

I hope this helps!


Edited by tmarsh, 23 November 2017 - 12:35 PM.

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#39 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 01:05 PM

Cool mod.  Let us know how it works out in practice.






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