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Ongoing Brake Issues - Any suggestions or similar experiences???


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13 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   evh

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:28 AM

I’m looking for any help on this issue I have had since I purchased my 2009 Edge Limited AWD used in 2010 with ~65,000 miles.  Every year (usually every year) or two I have had to put new front rotors and pads on the front.  It feels like they warp and I can feel it in the pedal and steering wheel.  They are smooth for about 9 months but then the vibration comes back.  
 
So each year it is new brakes and rotors. I use the top of the line rotors and ceramic pads from a local chain store.  I spoke with my mechanic and he indicated he has more trouble with the cheap discount chain brake parts.  He suggested I use another local chain that typically has better parts.  So this August I  bought their top of the line rotors and pads.  They were more expensive than OEM.  I had to replace those after 2 months.  The funny thing with these, is it doesn’t feel like a vibration or pulsating anymore in the pedal and steering wheel.  It now feels like high and low surfaces in the rotors.  So the steering wheel and pedal feel fine.  The car kind of brakes and lets go and brakes and lets go.  Again, feels like I am hitting a high and low spot on the rotors.  So I went to the place where I got the parts this last time and got new ones under warranty and replaced them all again in October.  They stayed smooth for only a week or so and now the high/low feeling is back.  I asked my mechanic (owner and still wrencher of an independent local shop) about it and he mentioned that some Edges had braces that hold the brake hoses that rust and can constrict the flexible brake lines.  He looked at mine quickly and said mine didn’t look like the ones that he has seen have the problems.  I would like to try to identify what the issue is and not throw additional unneeded new parts at it (new hoses, new calipers, etc.) like I have been doing.
 
Note when I take the old parts off, I never notice anything out of the ordinary.  I have probably done 50+ brake jobs in my life (clean, torque, lube etc.) so I think (hope) I know what I am doing.  Anyhow, any suggestions or feedback from anyone that has had a similar experience or other things to look at would be much appreciated.  
 








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#2 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:39 AM

Did you have the rotors checked on the vehicle with a runout gauge?  That will tell you for sure if they're warped or have high/low spots.  Don't just keep throwing new parts at it. 

 

Did you lube the caliper pins?   Could be calipers or the master cylinder or the ABS.


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#3 OFFLINE   evh

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 10:58 AM

Yes, pins are cleaned and lubed every time.  Funny thing is new pads and rotors always solve the issue for some period of time.  I find it hard to believe I have gotten 6 bad rotors from two different manufactures.  

 

So lets say I check the runout and the rotor is warped or has high/low spots, what do I do (i.e. what is causing it?  I doubt a 7th set of pads and rotors will fix it).  If the rotors are not bad, what does that tell me?  An issue elsewhere, but what?  That is what I am trying to figure out.  What would the next test be to try and figure this out other then throwing parts at it???



#4 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 11:28 AM

On older Ford vehicles the culprit was often uneven lug nut torque.   Are you using a torque wrench when putting the wheels back on?

 

If the rotor is warped is it one or both?  That would narrow it down. 

 

If it's only one maybe the piston is bad and it only shows up after the pads wear down a bit and the piston extends.


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#5 OFFLINE   evh

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 11:46 AM

Lugs are always torqued to 100lbs and retorqued after a couple days.  Tires are rotated by me regularly and show even wear.  Brake fluid never leaks or is low.   Every year I siphon what I can out of the reservoir  and replace with new.



#6 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 12:53 PM

Have you bled the entire system?  Even wear on the pads?


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#7 OFFLINE   evh

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 04:29 PM

The system has never been bled.  Pads always show even wear.



#8 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 08:49 PM

I would suggest replacing the fluid and bleeding the entire system.
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#9 OFFLINE   macbwt

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 09:34 PM

Curious as to the brands as you made such and effort to not mention the brands. I use Autozone High carbon rotors and Cmax highcontent ceramic pads.  Over 120K miles on the rotors and pads and no problems. I would avoid those drilled and slotted things.   Also the rotors most likely are not warped but your driving or braking may be baking the pad material onto the rotors and you have build up from the pad and rotor material.  Try turning the rotors  if nothing else.   Also 8 years is a long time for brake fluid to suck up a bunch of water. Replace the brake fluid.


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#10 OFFLINE   PaulSchott

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 07:33 AM

Make sure the mounting surface on the hub is clean before installing the rotor. Rust buildup and dirt can cause warping.  Also clean the antirust coating off the rotor on the mating surface.

Another long shot,  Check the hubs for runout.


Edited by PaulSchott, 17 November 2017 - 07:39 AM.

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#11 OFFLINE   evh

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 03:18 PM

MACT, I use almost the same braking components you use from Autozone.  My pads are the Cmax ceramics and the rotors were the top of the line rotors they had at the time.  I think the high carbon content came out only a few years ago and weren't available when I started this journey.  So my first four rotor/pad replacements were exactly those parts.  The last two were NAPA's top of the line painted rotors along with OEM equivalent pads.

 

PAUL - I always take a brass brush to the face of the hub and to the mating portion of the wheel to remove any dirt/rust so the faces mate evenly.

 

I have to believe I have a caliper or brake line issue.  It seems to be getting worse.


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#12 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 03:52 PM

If you want to throw parts I would replace the calipers and soft brake lines. If it continues at least you know it has to be the master cylinder, booster or ABS.
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#13 OFFLINE   enigma-2

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 10:24 PM

All other things considered, the first item do you burnish the brakes after you change them? Breaking them in properly is important to getting good life.

The second item is HOW you drive. Rotors that exhibit pulsating (aka warped) are almost always caused by excessive heat.
Multiple high speed stops not allowing the brakes to cool between each use, lots of downhill driving where your forced to ride the brakes, each of these can cause to rotors to "warp".

Does anything in your driving style correspond to any of these conditions?
.

Edited by enigma-2, 17 November 2017 - 10:25 PM.

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#14 OFFLINE   evh

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Posted 06 December 2017 - 11:30 AM

Well, I took it into my mechanic and as we have all discussed, it seems like it has to be the calipers/brake/lines, etc.  So they replaced the those, along with the rotors (to make sure everything was starting out smooth).  So far they are smooth (but they always were with new rotors).  But I think this should fix it.  Finger's crossed.


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