Nick Halstead Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 He started from scratch on the 2017. I was his 1st 2017 Edge, new strategy codes, so I guess he was playing it safe? I was wondering how you are getting tuned...onsite at Unleashed or logs sent to Torrie. yes, and using a different tuning device, it sucks to be first. Anyone with a 15-16 Edge has Chris Larsen, another guy and me to thank for getting the edge right. I've been on same file for a year now. probably time to bump it up a notch but wife is about to take the Edge cross country so I'll probably just leave it alone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
037 Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Nick, Chris already bumped it and I almost felt bad watching him. Almost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 Nick, Chris already bumped it and I almost felt bad watching him. Almost. trial and error, trial and error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrinzII Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 *Gets popcorn* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 (edited) Tomorrow I have some Dyno time scheduled to set the base line. The car will have my air intake hack, a aFe air filter and the MRT Axle back mufflers in place. First we will run the stock tune, then run a LMS 91 octane V3 tune. This will establish the base line before the new turbos are installed. After the turbos are installed I will run the tests again first with the stock tune then with the new LMS custom tune. Edited April 10, 2018 by Xtra 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) Just got back from the Dyno Shop and have the base numbers. I was surprised by the numbers especially the V3 output and how after 5,000rpm power fell off so quick. All numbers are taken at the wheels. Stock HP 224.3 @ 5,000 rpm Stock TQ 280 @ 3,400 rpm LMS 91 V3 HP 231.7 @ 5250rpm LMS 91V3 TQ 305 @ 3,500 rpm Pink is stock. Green is V3 Tune. The upper two lines are TQ. The bottom two lines are HP. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xcf44viKrA Edited April 11, 2018 by Xtra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikula Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) makes you wonder where livernois pulls their dyno numbers out of (I can muster a guess) What gear were you in during the pulls? Edited April 11, 2018 by Mikula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikula Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) It is clear their dyno numbers are... well... different.. than yours. This is their dyno sheet for the 93 octane V3 tune. They say pulls were done in 3rd gear. I would assume stock dyno run was after the car was driven into the shop and probably a bit heat soaked, while the v3 run was most likely well after it cooled down and ideal fan blowing conditions. Maybe even 100 octane running with the 93 tune just to be sure no detonation or KR or any of that. Not that I don't trust them. I just don't trust anyone selling a product. wait, that means I don't trust them! Stock hp 220@5240 Stock tq 253@3480 V3 hp 312@5380 V3 tq 423@2640 Edited April 11, 2018 by Mikula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
037 Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) I have a good bit experience with LMS and their tuning. My last car was a 14 Chevy SS sedan with a 6.2l I got their tune and went to NJ for a dyno run, numbers were crap, thought my car was broken. Finished working Friday night, got into car and went New York to Michigan. Arrived sat morning, they put me on their Dyno, 4 pulls back to back at their cost and the car was right where they said it would be. Bought an intake, 4 more pulls. Compared Dyno sheet to a random customer from another year, 1:1 same numbers. I trust the LMS Dyno. As far as your dyno numbers, they seem low. Even if LMS Dyno was bad, my personal track numbers tell a different story. Just look in my signature and tell me this thing is not making over 100hp over stock. Something is fishy somewhere. I have my $ on LMS who share their Dyno with Ford of all people. Edited April 11, 2018 by 037 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
037 Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Just for giggles, if you can find me a reputable AWD dyno I will put my car on it. NYC area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) If this is the best that the V3 tune can do with 91octane then I need those performance turbos and IC, because I want another 100 to 150 hp. The fact that power dropped off at 5,000 rpm needs to be addressed as well. Edited April 11, 2018 by Xtra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Halstead Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 I have zero clue why they did the dyno in 3rd gear!, the 1 1 gear is 4th 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
037 Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Had a quick look at the Dyno video, LMS runs are always hood open with fans blowing. Either way, your tuned numbers are crazy low. No chance to run 93 so we are at least closer to a close comparison? I never ran 91 so I can't comment on the power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 The jump in power going from 91 to 93 is significant, always has been. it is not simply a 2 point octane increase, it allows quite a bit more tuning headroom too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaX83_ZA Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 What kind of dyno was it ran on? Some are pretty notorious for low numbers compared to others. Mustang dynos are really bad for it. I've seen as much as a 75HP difference between it and a dynojet. Irrelevant if before and after was done on the same dyno. 10% on a stingy dyno is 10% unless the have some strange sliding scale calibration... That V3 tune looks similiar to what you get with those cheap ebay +2 PSI plug and play chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Had a quick look at the Dyno video, LMS runs are always hood open with fans blowing. Either way, your tuned numbers are crazy low. No chance to run 93 so we are at least closer to a close comparison? I never ran 91 so I can't comment on the power. There is a place on the way to the tuner that sells 100 octane but why do that, I need real world everyday numbers . Now if I were to go to a race track and try to lay down some low times I could do that ,but for now I need daily driver numbers with the fuel I can get anyplace. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLinNBC Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Irrelevant if before and after was done on the same dyno. 10% on a stingy dyno is 10% unless the have some strange sliding scale calibration... Yep, I have experience over many years with Dynojet and Mustang dynamometers, motorcycles and cars. Seen wildly different numbers for the same machine on different dynos, different days/weather, but the key thing is differential. Rarely much difference if any at all for the gain/loss in HP or TQ regardless of dyno for the same baseline and change(s). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) I did some research on the DynoDynamics Dyno I tested on, and I found this. I copied and pasted it. It says a lot about the DD and the controversy around DynoJet VS DynoDynamics. As long as I stay on that DD Dyno it will be no problem as I will be comparing apples to apples. And if I ever get a chance to get on a DynoJet then I should expect more. Here is the crux of the controversy . Dyno Dynamics vs. Dynojet Hey everyone!I know there's been a lot of discussion about the differences in Dyno Dynamics vs. Dynojet power numbers. Well here's a little comparison for everyone. I'm hope this sheds some light on some of the misconceptions that pop up when comparing different dyno types.This EVO X was tuned on a Dynojet at another local shop on Monday. The owner of the EVO, a mutual customer of ours, stopped by yesterday night and we threw his car on our Dyno Dynamics to see how the numbers would compare.Although, there are a few factors that would cause a variance in the % difference, this particular example shows that the Dyno Dynamics dyno reads ~12% lower in peak power than the Dynojet dyno. It's not called the 'Heart Breaker' dyno for nothing Now for the rebuttal: DynoDynamics is regarded as the worlds most accurate dyno, it has a level of precision that almost no other dyno can match. Further what sets it apart from dynojet is it actually is measuring rear wheel torque under full real world load and not just measuring inertia. Dyno Dynamics does not read low, it reads right. Dynojet reads HIGH, and thats a very important distinction. Edited April 11, 2018 by Xtra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
037 Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 That's a nice argument with claims but no proof or references... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikula Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 What kind of dyno was it ran on? Some are pretty notorious for low numbers compared to others. Mustang dynos are really bad for it. I've seen as much as a 75HP difference between it and a dynojet. That can be true, but the main thing here is that the stock tune for both xtra, and LMS were basically the same number. The tuned number after the baseline is where it got out of hand for LMS My thought is that Xtra had his car on the dyno, after driving it in, getting it good and hot, then did the stock pulls, everything got even hotter, then did the V3 tuned dyno pulls. In that case I can see how the temperatures may have been skyrocketing by then, and there was probably a whole bunch of timing being pulled at that point. Anyone that has ever hot lapped one of these with the LMS tune knows how god awful your runs get after the first one. I ran a 13.41 (after a 60 mile drive to the track) and under hood temps were screaming. Hot lapped it, and it ran a 13.96 That was with 93 aggressive tune. So you can see, if the pulls were done hot, in succession, it probably skewed the numbers a bit. I have zero clue why they did the dyno in 3rd gear!, the 1 1 gear is 4th My understanding is that it does not matter the gear. Even if the transmission is 1:1, you take into account the gearing, as well as tire size, and the final drive ratio is not 1:1 anyhow. The dyno compares drum speed to engine rpm and makes its calculations of overall gear ratio. However I believe a 1:1 pull is best for the transmission because generally that is where the least amount of loss occurs. Hard to explain simply, but on a chassis dyno, the rpm of the dyno drum, along with the rpm of the motor, and the time it takes to rotate that drum, all are taken into account by the software, which is why a different ratio doesn't affect the numbers much. For example (with made up numbers): 2 dyno pulls, 3k rpm to 6k rpm on the same exact motor, just changing the final drive ratio 1st pull has final drive ratio of 3:1 2nd pull has final ratio of 7:1 Pull 1 spins the dyno drum 400-800rpm in 2 seconds Pull 2 spins the dyno drum 1000-2000 rpm in 4 seconds yes, it took longer to finish the dyno pull, but it was spinning the drum more revolutions, equating to the same power numbers For those who don't know or didn't realize: Torque = (hp x 5252)/rpm Which is why every dyno you see, the torque and HP numbers cross at 5252 rpm The main reason LMS doesn't do a 1:1 may be that a 4th gear pull will get you to the top speed limiter on the dyno before you finish the pull, giving you skewed numbers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 My thought is that Xtra had his car on the dyno, after driving it in, getting it good and hot, then did the stock pulls, everything got even hotter, then did the V3 tuned dyno pulls. Let the car cool down then did the V3 first. The the Stock tune was tested second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikula Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 Let the car cool down then did the V3 first. The the Stock tune was tested second. well then.. kick me in the butt, i'm out of ideas. I would question LMS to see what their response is. obviously every car is different, but not even an additional 10hp seems like a very LOW number for the v3 tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
037 Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 What is the best track time for this 91 v3 running car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 What is the best track time for this 91 v3 running car? Never had it on a track . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
037 Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 If you have a way to measure power or speed, try the 87 v3 or 93 be, either they gave you the wrong tune or the Dyno operators screwed up. Either way, v3 hauls @$$ and not just in my car. Can also ask em for a v2. If you have a way to measure boost that can help as well. V3 93 hits 19 while v3 race hits 21 psi peak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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