PTU drain plug drill and tap

[jlkansascity]

Have just called local Ford (customer relationship) about the PTU oil replacement.

 

In the manual (revisions) they say that dealers always check the level of oil, and complete it if something is missing ... then I asked how do they check the level of that oil, given there isn't any mechanism for that and that dealers don't remove the PTU for this purpose. The answer: "to check the level of oil" = check for apparent leakages. If there's no leakage, the oil level is ok. :-)

 

Then I argued that once you have a leakage then you already have a problem, so when Ford will remove the PTU they will probably find a problem that will require me to replace the full PTU, of course that at my expenses. And my claim was exactly to have a preventive action to avoid getting to this point ....

 

Of course, the standard answer ... that they always check for leakages in the revisions, and if a leakage is detected early this will not damage the PTU and that I have to continue following the planned revisions with their dealers, bla bla bla (I also asked if in case of following all these instructions, and having a problem with PTU if Ford would cover them ... of course they will not).

 

It is a good car, but I'm really upset with Ford relationship. Even when customers want to be pro-active to avoid problems you're really left with no options.

 

 

I think there is one flaw with that dealer's process. If you read these message boards, you'll see mention of the oil getting low without any leaks; I think it gets destroyed due to heat or wear. Some users on here have built extra heat shields to protect the case from heat. In my specific case, by the time it started leaking from the vent (which is not a normal leak in he sense they're looking for) the oil was nearly all gone and it was destroyed to the consistency of pudding or something like that...

[enigma-2]

 

I have contacted many dealers asking for the oil replacement and all of them give me the usual answer that it is not recommended to change oil by Ford, and that they don't do it. many of them also told me that this is a very rare problem.

I had my local dealer replace to fluid by opening the fill hole and sucking out the old oil. They charged me somewhere around $80 for it. I asked if it was common for these units to fail, and they told me that they had replaced some PTU's, but not many. They also told me that they felt the way the fail was, the seal begins to leak, and as the fluid leaks out, the remaining oil gets thick and gummy, not providing the needed lubrication. So the comment you were given about checking for leaks is probably valid.

 

If your local dealer does not want to perform the fluid change, try any transmission shop. They already have the necessary pumping equipment and are familiar with the process. All they need to know is the location of the fill plug. Insist on their using Motorcraft fluids to make certain your getting the right stuff.

[Kleber Gomes]

I had my local dealer replace to fluid by opening the fill hole and sucking out the old oil. They charged me somewhere around $80 for it. I asked if it was common for these units to fail, and they told me that they had replaced some PTU's, but not many. They also told me that they felt the way the fail was, the seal begins to leak, and as the fluid leaks out, the remaining oil gets thick and gummy, not providing the needed lubrication. So the comment you were given about checking for leaks is probably valid.

 

If your local dealer does not want to perform the fluid change, try any transmission shop. They already have the necessary pumping equipment and are familiar with the process. All they need to know is the location of the fill plug. Insist on their using Motorcraft fluids to make certain your getting the right stuff.

 

Hi,

 

Nice that you could find a dealer that proceed with this change. Yes, after my search, I have absolutely no hope that any dealer here would accept to change oil without removing the PTU (despite living in one of the largest cities of the world - Sao Paulo has around 20M people). But even in this scenario I just found 1 dealer after discussing a lot about the subject.

 

I have started to seek for other alternatives, as some of you have mentioned, like transmission shops. So for, none found that would do it, but I'll keep trying.

 

Thanks!

[Brian K]

As suggested take it to a small oil change place and tell them that there is a fill plug like those in a Diff on the passenger side of the PTU. Ask them to suck out the old oil (like they do to differentials) and pump in new 75W140 oil. Fill it until it comes out the fill hole. If they can't get much out because of gear interference, then at least top it up because it will be low because it cooks to a grease. As you might have seen in many previous posts, I drilled a drain hole and did about 10 drain and fills. The oil gets cooked and greasy and stops lubricating. The greasy paste also gets thrown up to the top area where there is a vent. After a while this area gets plugged and can't relieve the system pressure due to heat build up and then the greasy goo gets pushed out the vent and then it drips down until you can see it on the driveway - all this of course is only my opinion after looking at a used PTU internally which had LOTS of greasy paste stuck all around the inside - with only 120ml of oil instead of the required 530 ml. .

As with anything - changing the oil can only help. Good luck.

[Kleber Gomes]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the answers and suggestions.

 

Actually I'm trying to find any place that could just change/topping the oil, without removing the PTU ... but it is being hard to find. So far, all of them want to really go for the full PTU removal. Maybe they're afraid of taking that action and in case of a failure of the PTU that I can blame them of doing something wrong, so they really want to go for the removal, cleaning and refuel. Others are saying that keeping old oil together with new oil would not be good and just accept to go for the service if they can replace all the oil (removing PTU too). But I'll keep trying as I agree with you that topping, at least, can't be damaging :-)

 

Question, about the oil, any special recommendation? I've called the dealer asking for the original oil ... and the answer was that such oil wasn't even in their catalog.

 

One shop told me they work with a brand called "Motul" ... what do you think?

 

And finally, have you seen reported any issue/problem with the differential? Only the PTU is really failing, or were there issues also with the differencial? (Because differencial is also not mentioned to replace oil, and just in the rear there are almost 4 liters.

 

BR/Kleber

[akirby]

Never heard of any issues with the rear differential.

[jlkansascity]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for the answers and suggestions.

 

Actually I'm trying to find any place that could just change/topping the oil, without removing the PTU ... but it is being hard to find. So far, all of them want to really go for the full PTU removal. Maybe they're afraid of taking that action and in case of a failure of the PTU that I can blame them of doing something wrong, so they really want to go for the removal, cleaning and refuel. Others are saying that keeping old oil together with new oil would not be good and just accept to go for the service if they can replace all the oil (removing PTU too). But I'll keep trying as I agree with you that topping, at least, can't be damaging :-)

 

Question, about the oil, any special recommendation? I've called the dealer asking for the original oil ... and the answer was that such oil wasn't even in their catalog.

 

One shop told me they work with a brand called "Motul" ... what do you think?

 

And finally, have you seen reported any issue/problem with the differential? Only the PTU is really failing, or were there issues also with the differencial? (Because differencial is also not mentioned to replace oil, and just in the rear there are almost 4 liters.

 

BR/Kleber

 

For oil choice, you can use any 75w-140 which is the Ford recommendation for the PTO/PTU and if it's totally empty they say it takes 1.1 pints. I use Amsoil which I have used for decades, and Motul is also a good oil. I would only use synthetic for this high stress component.

 

I did change my differential oil, but I have not heard of anyone having real issues with the rear diff. The chronic problems are the PTO/PTU/ Transfer case.

 

JL

[IWRBB]

Just drill the case, tap it and put in plugs to drain and fill it. Change it at every other oil change.

 

People do it all the time on differential cases for gear oil cooling systems.

 

I bought a 2WD Edge because of this thread! Well, I had a vague knowledge of the problem as not uncommon on the Taurus, but this thread reminded me, no AWD for the Edge!

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Motul is a good brand, as long as the shop is using the correct weight oil, you should be fine. 75W140 for the PTU, 80W90 for the RDU.

[Brian K]

If you can't find any place willing to add suck out oil and add or even just add to it, then do it yourself. All you really need are some ramps so you can slither under the vehicle with a 3/8" ratchett, a bottle of 75W140 oil, an oil pump that screws onto that bottle and get about 3 feet of plastic hose that slides onto the pump discharge. For the cost of these parts, if you don't have them, you will be paying still less than paying a place to do it for you.

 

Find the PTU which is pretty easy, remove the fill plug on the passenger side of the PTU with the 3/8" ratchet (it is a square drive 1/2" plug with a square indent for the 3/8" drive), route the plastic hose into the hole and pump until it starts to overflow. Put the fill plug back in. Done. Not so hard was it. For shits and giggles, measure how much was in the bottle before and after - so you get some idea of how much you added to the PTU - but you will waste a bit because it will overflow out the drain hole a bit - but you'll have some sort of idea of how much you needed to add. To make it easier, do it before the exhaust is hot so you don't burn your arms. Driving the vehicle up onto the ramps won't heat up the exhaust that much if the vehicle was cold to begin with. My oil was horribly thick, pasty and black so the change was well worth it.

 

As far as changing the Rear Diff Unit (RDU), I changed mine when I did the PTU. The oil in the RDU was pristine - clean and golden - so I will probably never change it again. It was like new - not like the PTU which I think gets cooked by the exhaust that goes right under it - but of course that is only a guess.

[Kleber Gomes]

Guys, question.

 

Some of the shops ar actually telling me that just removing part of the oil from PTU and that mixing the lefting part with brand new oil would not be "healthy" to the PTU. On the other hand, they are proposing to remove the PTU and proceed with the removal and cleaning, refilling it with 100% brand new oil.

 

What is your view on that? (The mix of new and old oil mixed up together) Would this bring any extra risk to the PTU? I'm planning to move with the removal of old oil without removing the PTU but was concerned on which would be the risks to have a mixture of oil inside of the PTU.

 

BR/Kleber

[jlkansascity]

Guys, question.

 

Some of the shops ar actually telling me that just removing part of the oil from PTU and that mixing the lefting part with brand new oil would not be "healthy" to the PTU. On the other hand, they are proposing to remove the PTU and proceed with the removal and cleaning, refilling it with 100% brand new oil.

 

What is your view on that? (The mix of new and old oil mixed up together) Would this bring any extra risk to the PTU? I'm planning to move with the removal of old oil without removing the PTU but was concerned on which would be the risks to have a mixture of oil inside of the PTU.

 

BR/Kleber

 

 

There is no way that this approach is worse than leaving the old crappy oil in there. It's not ideal, but it's a huge step forward; it would ensure the case is full, and it would get some new oil in there, and it would remove a lot of the failed oil along with the sediment and particulates. I used this approach; I did it three times in one month to get the unit flushed out, then I did it once a month for 6 months, and now I do it once every 6 months. I've put about 25,000 miles on the vehicle since I first did this and it now has 165,000 miles on it but is slated to be traded in within 30 days when the new vehicle gets here.

[Kleber Gomes]

 

 

There is no way that this approach is worse than leaving the old crappy oil in there. It's not ideal, but it's a huge step forward; it would ensure the case is full, and it would get some new oil in there, and it would remove a lot of the failed oil along with the sediment and particulates. I used this approach; I did it three times in one month to get the unit flushed out, then I did it once a month for 6 months, and now I do it once every 6 months. I've put about 25,000 miles on the vehicle since I first did this and it now has 165,000 miles on it but is slated to be traded in within 30 days when the new vehicle gets here.

 

Hi, yes for sure leaving the way it is right now is not an option.

 

The question is ... technically (and why not financially) is it better to go for a full removal, cleaning and 100% refilling with brand new oil (at every 6m or a year) ... or to go for some rounds of removing (vaccum) and just topping?

 

BR/Kleber

[bp123]

 

Hi, yes for sure leaving the way it is right now is not an option.

 

The question is ... technically (and why not financially) is it better to go for a full removal, cleaning and 100% refilling with brand new oil (at every 6m or a year) ... or to go for some rounds of removing (vaccum) and just topping?

 

BR/Kleber

Yes, everyone agrees that a full disassembly and cleaning would be the better plan. However, you can have it vacuumed and refilled ten times for what that costs and end up with the same results, a PTU that lasts forever. So just have the fluid replaced until it comes out clean and then start spacing your fluid changes accordingly.

 

If you have money to blow then by all means go for the full toothbrush cleaning.

[Brian K]

When you change the oil in anything else, you drain and refill. No need to disassemble - but of course that would be ideal if you did - but not really worth the cost - IMO.

[Kleber Gomes]

Hi, question

 

I was talking with the owner of a company that works with oil changing for transmissions, etc.

 

He said that he knows the problem with Edge's PTU and he mentioned that his has a solution for the problem (developed by themselves) where he replaces some internal components (not original from Ford) and promises the problem will be solved. He gives guarantee of 2 years.

 

Additionally, I asked him about just changing the oil ... he proposed to remove with a pump what is possible, and to inject some solvent (querosene) to clean up that mass that is internally impregned, and after this process, to refill with brand new oil. What is your view on that? Would be something good or some solvent may remain in the component and affect the new oil too?

 

BR/kleber

[EDST777]

Yes, it is interesting to learn..., and what has to be solvent? I change oil every year in PTU, in a year it strongly darkens, but nevertheless it liquid and looks much better than when I have made it the first time three years ago). So far I have found only such solution for myself. Cheap but good!)

[Kleber Gomes]

Yes, it is interesting to learn..., and what has to be solvent? I change oil every year in PTU, in a year it strongly darkens, but nevertheless it liquid and looks much better than when I have made it the first time three years ago). So far I have found only such solution for myself. Cheap but good!)

Yes.

 

The guy mentioned that in the first time he expects almost nothing to be removed because now with +3 years and 45.000km almost everything has actually turned into that sludge. So, the proposition of the solvent was exactly to remove most of the sludge.

 

I did understand that the proposition of the disucssions from the forum is to leave the sludge as it is and with more frequency to change the oil, so this mix of old and new, if changed with more frequency in the beginning, would help to clean up the sludge.

 

When I heard the mechanic proposal (solvent) it looks interesting, but I got concerned if there wouldn't be a "side effect". Firstly because there are some rubber in mechanical connection of the components (I presume) and secondly because in my humble opinion, it would be impossible to remove 100% of the solvent. So, i was afraid that such remaining solvent could bring any issue and affect the new oil (possibly leading to a HW failure). But as I'm not a mechanic I'm not sure if these side effects could really happen, or not.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

If they are competent, it should not be a problem. They would run the solvent through, allow it to "desludge", then drain it all out, fill it up, then repeat the drain/fill a couple of times more, with driving short distances in between. That SHOULD nullify any worries about remaining solvent. I don't know if you can dry out kerosene or not, but that would be nifty. There ARE organic solvents that evaporate on their own, and are used to clean out electronics.

[enigma-2]

I was talking with the owner of a company that works with oil changing for transmissions, etc.

If this is a natonal chain, would you share the name?

[Kleber Gomes]

If this is a natonal chain, would you share the name?

 

It is a brazilian company. Some links:

http://www.pradomatic.com.br/

http://www.pradomatic.com.br/single-post/2016/10/16/Ford-EDGE-35-quebra-caixa-de-transfer%C3%AAncia-4x4-com-50000-km

 

The last one is where they offer their solution they claim to have developed, which consists in replacing some components. (Don't know much more about it neither anybody who had gone for it. Nevertheles the guy explianed and it is actually pretty expensive as well ~ 2.000USD ... a brand new one, for sure is more than 3.000USD and is subject to the same problem after some time)

 

If they are competent, it should not be a problem. They would run the solvent through, allow it to "desludge", then drain it all out, fill it up, then repeat the drain/fill a couple of times more, with driving short distances in between. That SHOULD nullify any worries about remaining solvent. I don't know if you can dry out kerosene or not, but that would be nifty. There ARE organic solvents that evaporate on their own, and are used to clean out electronics.

 

This is the problem ... to know if they are competent. I'm not sure, don't know anybody that had used their services. Just found them in the internet.

 

So, from your feedback this option to clean up with some solvent, before refilling, would be a good option.

[enigma-2]

Personally I question if the goop is all that harmful. After all the ptu has been running in the stuff for x miles. More likely it's the lack of fluid lubricating the gears and bearings that probably causes the failures.

I agree with suck out what you can and refill with fresh fluid.

I do think doing this annually is overkill however (so long as the seal isn't leaking).

[chefduane]

I have tried to find a shop that would do a simple PTU oil vacuum and refill. So far, no takers. And Ford will only do complete remove/refill on the PTU. If anyone knows of a national chain that will do this, that would be great info to have. I suppose I could do the vacuum/refill myself (as a previous '98 Explorer 4x owner I sure did my share of flushes, etc.) I was just hoping to avoid the hassle.

[enigma-2]

I had asked at my local dealer and the service desk told me they couldn't do it.

 

I then asked if they would ask the actual mechanic. They called him up to the service desk and he said, sure, I can do that. Told me that he would have to charge me around $40 for the fluid as Ford retails this stuff for an outrageous price, and I said that was fine. They added to flush to the work order and think it was around $80 for the flush.

 

Service desk can only quote what it tells them in the computer (and there is no procedure for the previous Edge's and MKX's). Try asking.

[Kleber Gomes]

Hi,

 

Yesterday I found a place to change the oil from PTU. The guy has never done it before but with the assistance of some videos in youtube he quickly figured out how to proceed.

 

My Edge is 2013 with nearly 50.000km. I'm not the first owner but for sure the other one hasn't changed it. What I found was the same standard reported everywhere ... sludge tied to the bolt, and much less fluid than expected ... from the originally ~ 500 ml that is the factory recommendation, we could remove something between 250 to 300 ml only. The rest probably was turned into sludge, as there has never been any visible leakage.

 

The PTU was then refilled with around 500 ml of Motul 75W140 fluid. Now I'm planning to run for around 1.000km and go for another change, and then to change it at every 6 months with hopes to extend as much as possible the life of such component.

 

Questions:

1. Have you ever heard about an additive to oil/fluid called Militec? Guys here in Brazil are also adding a small portion of it in PTU (they claim there's a video in Internet showing a car working normally without any drop of oil (after using militec). So, would you recommend?

 

2. What about transmission and differential? When are you changing the oil/fluid of such components?

 

BR, Kleber