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robertlane

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Wow, body of the Edge Sport isnt even cold yet and already sent to the grave

 

Really - I was totally surprised that they attached the sport moniker to the Edge and not the ST. Same with the Fusion Sport.

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Really - I was totally surprised that they attached the sport moniker to the Edge and not the ST. Same with the Fusion Sport.

 

We will have to wait and see if they have ruined the Sport by making it an ST. ST is a badge they put on a focus or fiesta, not a $50k SUV. Lets wait and see

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We will have to wait and see if they have ruined the Sport by making it an ST. ST is a badge they put on a focus or fiesta, not a $50k SUV.

 

Says who? And why not? ST comes from Ford Performance. Sport models don't. That implies a lot more performance engineering.

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Performance engineering in a SUV? And ST is hardly a prestigious plaque in the market.

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Performance engineering in a SUV? And ST is hardly a prestigious plaque in the market.

Lots of performance engineering in SUVs. GC Track Hawk (and the SRT-8), AMG GLC 63S, QS5, etc. Does "sport" make it any more prestigious? It's still under the Ford name, so ST makes more sense.

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ST is not exactly the same as AMG, S, RS, SRT, ///M and even for those SUV's, they dont really do well in anything other than going fast in a straight line. They are super stiff to pretend they can go around corners (excluding the ones with active dampers) and then they arent anywhere near as good as the equavalent sedan\coupe counterparts that they are trying to mimic.

 

The Focus ST and Fiesta ST is lauded for driving fun and chuckability on a race track, great front end grip and glorious lift off oversteer slides... That is what I think when I read ST (I owned a 2017 Focus ST for a couple of months as a 2nd car so know it pretty well. Same with the Fiesta ST, the original 2.0L, drove tons of them when they were launched, great handling, gruff and revvy engine).

 

Ford said the Edge ST is not designed to go on the race track in their press release and even in the promo video, not even Ben Collins can make it look fluid and happy on turn-in with the car understeering around the parking lot, even when he chucks it in... So what do they want from it? Comfortable, fast SUV? Kinda like a Sport?

 

Let me put it to you like this, if they changed the name of the Fusion Sport to the Fusion ST, does that mean the Fusion ST is now a high performance sports sedan that is out to have fun with the likes of BMW 340i M sports, S4 Audi, Q60 Red Sports, C43 AMG etc?

 

Each to their own I guess. My wife likes it so we will probably get one irrespective of what its called. I like the look and I like the kit and it addresses my main pain on the current car, the gearbox.

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I'm lost in your argument. You never defined performance, and now you are defining it only as something that does more that straight line speed. Straight line speed and being able to put that power down (in a bigger form factor) - see Challenger Hellcat vs GC Trackhawk for comparison. It's still "performance engineering" however way you slice it. And I never said ST was equal to AMG, M, or anything else, I was just giving those as examples of SUV's that were again "performance engineered" whether based off a car platform or not and how good comparatively, is definitely not the point.

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I dont have an argument, just an opinion :victory:

 

I dont see the straight line capabilities of a vehicle as performance. Its only but a singular aspect of it. If I see a sport badge, it tells me the car is probably configured in a way that would cater for more spirited driving but is compromised towards comfort for daily driving as apposed to track day driving. The ST badge means, a fun drivers package that talk to the 3 pillars of performance; acceleration, steering and stopping with daily comfort compromised for performance.

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I dont have an argument, just an opinion :victory:

 

I dont see the straight line capabilities of a vehicle as performance. Its only but a singular aspect of it. If I see a sport badge, it tells me the car is probably configured in a way that would cater for more spirited driving but is compromised towards comfort for daily driving as apposed to track day driving. The ST badge means, a fun drivers package that talk to the 3 pillars of performance; acceleration, steering and stopping with daily comfort compromised for performance.

 

You’re completely missing the point. ST means it was TUNED BY FORD PERFORMANCE. It doesn’t necessarily imply a specific type of tuning or performance. Ford Performance also makes the Ford GT supercar and Ford Raptor. Surely you don’t think those are in the same category as a Fiesta or Focus ST.

 

You’re reading WAY too much into a simple name. The previous Edge Sport was not tuned by Ford Performance. It’s as simple as that.

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BTW - in Europe the ST models only get cosmetic upgrades - no performance upgrades.

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You’re completely missing the point. ST means it was TUNED BY FORD PERFORMANCE. It doesn’t necessarily imply a specific type of tuning or performance. Ford Performance also makes the Ford GT supercar and Ford Raptor. Surely you don’t think those are in the same category as a Fiesta or Focus ST.

 

You’re reading WAY too much into a simple name. The previous Edge Sport was not tuned by Ford Performance. It’s as simple as that.

 

Exactly! I am not questioning the capability of the car, just naming. If that is the vision of Ford, they should standardise the vision like BMW, Audi, Merc etc.

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BTW - in Europe the ST models only get cosmetic upgrades - no performance upgrades.

 

I come from a European Market ;)

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Looks like Ford has been listening. Improved seats, brakes and suspension a little more power. These are the things that some of us Sport owners have been spending our money on. I for one am looking forward to test driving a ST Edge ASAP.

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ST-Suspension Tuning division.

 

I think the primary focus of the Edge ST is handling, since it did not gain much of a horsepower or torque boost.

 

The current Edge Sport handles much better than it's japanese and american competitors, but I think the market segment for the ST is Audi SQ5, Jaguar F-Pace, BMW X5, Volvo XC60 R and Alfa Romeo Stelvio customers. These euro SUV's are quite compentant in handling and sit in the same price bracket as the Edge Sport.

 

I'm really interested in comparing the Edge ST once my lease is up. I think Ford should setup some sort track day for current Edge Sport owners, since dealers won't allow their cars to be test driven.

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I'm really interested in comparing the Edge ST once my lease is up. I think Ford should setup some sort track day for current Edge Sport owners, since dealers won't allow their cars to be test driven.

 

The Edge Sport is not track worthy. Brakes, Intercooler, and the All Wheel Drive Unit all overheat quickly when pushed. Expect things to overheat within 4 miles on a track, 3 to 4 laps at most. These are some of the things that some here are working on. We can hope that Ford has addressed some of this with the new Edge ST.

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ST-Suspension Tuning division.

 

I think the primary focus of the Edge ST is handling, since it did not gain much of a horsepower or torque boost.

 

The current Edge Sport handles much better than it's japanese and american competitors, but I think the market segment for the ST is Audi SQ5, Jaguar F-Pace, BMW X5, Volvo XC60 R and Alfa Romeo Stelvio customers. These euro SUV's are quite compentant in handling and sit in the same price bracket as the Edge Sport.

 

I'm really interested in comparing the Edge ST once my lease is up. I think Ford should setup some sort track day for current Edge Sport owners, since dealers won't allow their cars to be test driven.

The Edge Sport is quite a bit cheaper than those that you listed. Especially when you start adding any options to those European models, the pricing is a huge difference. And let's be honest, there's not many buyers who are in the market for a luxury sporty SUV, that are going to cross shop it against the Edge Sport.
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The Edge Sport is quite a bit cheaper than those that you listed. Especially when you start adding any options to those European models, the pricing is a huge difference. And let's be honest, there's not many buyers who are in the market for a luxury sporty SUV, that are going to cross shop it against the Edge Sport.

 

Really? I cross shopped the Edge Sport with the SQ5, XC90 T6, Lexus RC350 F Sport and MB AMG CLA45. All of which were similarly priced, with the exception of the SQ5. The CLA45 was obviously much too small and I found that most MB buyers simply overpay for the brand name and buying/service experience. I would assume that the Edge ST will have a price tag around 55-58k, so it certainly should compete against the SQ5, XC90 T8, Jaguar F-Pace and Afla Stelvio at their base trim levels.

 

Ford definitely took a few customers from the aforementioned market segments by offering similar performance with a lesser price tag. Whether or not Ford intentionally targeted that market demographic I don't know, but it sure seems like the ST is targeted to compete against those brands.

Edited by pinyin

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I would assume that the Edge ST will have a price tag around 55-58k, so it certainly should compete against the SQ5, XC90 T8, Jaguar F-Pace and Afla Stelvio at their base trim levels.

 

The Edge ST will replace the Edge Sport, my guess it that it'll be priced similarly. a 2018 Edge Sport tops at a hair under 50K before incentives, expect the ST to similar, maybe 1-2 grand more. Remember that the Edge ST is not a full ST model like the other ST vehicles.

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Really? I cross shopped the Edge Sport with the SQ5, XC90 T6, Lexus RC350 F Sport and MB AMG CLA45. All of which were similarly priced, with the exception of the SQ5. The CLA45 was obviously much too small and I found that most MB buyers simply overpay for the brand name and buying/service experience. I would assume that the Edge ST will have a price tag around 55-58k, so it certainly should compete against the SQ5, XC90 T8, Jaguar F-Pace and Afla Stelvio at their base trim levels.

 

Ford definitely took a few customers from the aforementioned market segments by offering similar performance with a lesser price tag. Whether or not Ford intentionally targeted that market demographic I don't know, but it sure seems like the ST is targeted to compete against those brands.

Then you have to compare a base Edge Sport vs any of those you listed (and it will still be quite bit lower in price). If you want a similarly equipped (to say the 401A) package, those luxury models are $10-20k higher. Again my point wasn't that nobody will cross-shop against the Edge Sport, but remember this is a an enthusiast forum who generally know a lot about cars. The general public, especially someone who is in the market for a luxury vehicle will not even know (or care) that there is a "fast" Ford Edge that could compete on paper and has a lot of content.

 

There is a very similar issue with a more recent vehicle. The Kia Stinger GT...all reviews have said it's amazing and can compete with the luxury brands but is priced much more competitively. Even Kia is targeting it against the Audi A7 sportback and the BWM 440i Grand Coupe. There will be a VERY small group that will see the value proposition but mostly it will be mid-income buyers that are going to look to the Stinger as a bargain-luxury GT. The Kia used car lots are not going to be filled with BMW's and Audi's because everyone is jumping ship. It is "just a Kia" to way to many people still. JD Power rankings or not.

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There is a very similar issue with a more recent vehicle. The Kia Stinger GT...all reviews have said it's amazing and can compete with the luxury brands but is priced much more competitively. Even Kia is targeting it against the Audi A7 sportback and the BWM 440i Grand Coupe. There will be a VERY small group that will see the value proposition but mostly it will be mid-income buyers that are going to look to the Stinger as a bargain-luxury GT. The Kia used car lots are not going to be filled with BMW's and Audi's because everyone is jumping ship. It is "just a Kia" to way to many people still. JD Power rankings or not.

 

Around here IE: Los Angeles; A lot of people drive BMW, Audi because they do cost a lot and are expensive. It is a prestige thing. I have more money than you. My car costs twice as much as yours therefor I am smarter have a better job and you are beneath me. They don't know squat about the car itself. I went in for an oil change and started talking to the kid who worked there . He told me of a guy with a new Porsche that put windshield washer fluid in where you put the oil. Another women with a Maserati had never changed the oil in 40,000 miles , she said "you have to change the oil? " To a lot of people the fact that a Kia Stinger is great bang for the buck is lost because Kia does not say what BMW or Audi does. They would rather spend twice or three times as much because they can, value has nothing to do with it.

Edited by Xtra
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The Edge Sport is not track worthy. Brakes, Intercooler, and the All Wheel Drive Unit all overheat quickly when pushed. Expect things to overheat within 4 miles on a track, 3 to 4 laps at most. These are some of the things that some here are working on. We can hope that Ford has addressed some of this with the new Edge ST.

 

 

There's an interview from the Detroit Auto Show that seems to answer this;

 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/detroit-auto-show/a15334975/2019-ford-edge-st-jamal-hameedi-interview/

 

 

"The Edge is fully an ST," Hameedi told us. "It doesn't skimp anywhere. Its transmission calibration is unique, the engine, the suspension, the aero, the cooling, the brakes, the tires are all unique."

Hameedi doesn't expect any owners to take an Edge ST to the track, but he says it passes all of Ford Performance's track durability requirements. Because it passes these requirements, Hameedi says that it can handle a challenging mountain road, and it'd even be fun. He's confident it's even better than the best high-performance SUVs out there.

Edited by Rimcrim
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There's an interview from the Detroit Auto Show that seems to answer this;

 

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/detroit-auto-show/a15334975/2019-ford-edge-st-jamal-hameedi-interview/

 

 

"The Edge is fully an ST," Hameedi told us. "It doesn't skimp anywhere. Its transmission calibration is unique, the engine, the suspension, the aero, the cooling, the brakes, the tires are all unique."

Hameedi doesn't expect any owners to take an Edge ST to the track, but he says it passes all of Ford Performance's track durability requirements. Because it passes these requirements, Hameedi says that it can handle a challenging mountain road, and it'd even be fun. He's confident it's even better than the best high-performance SUVs out there.

 

This is good news and I have the mountain roads in my back yard to test it on.

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