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Burgundy17

Water Pump Failure Prevention

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A lot of work for a fix. Maintenance is the price to pay to prevent. Water pump failure is a known issue but not so sure it is a grenade waiting to happen. Will it happen to me to one of my Edge's who knows but with 650,000 miles clocked on the Edges. I am not worried about failure. Just buy a used engine drop the old one out and slide the new one in.

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macbwt,

 

I can't disagree with what you say. As I said, I enjoy doing projects like this and I wouldn't be making any permanent changes. Everything I suggested can be undone and 95% of the work involved has to be done anyway to swap a pump out. If need be, electric pumps are common enough now that they can be gotten from a salvage yard so costs can be kept to a minimum. I understand it's a project that isn't for everyone but I still see it as an option to swapping motors at much less cost and involves the necessary tear down of the front of the engine only once. If I didn't see this as a fun project to do I wouldn't consider it. I know most people wouldn't look at any of this, regardless of the reason, as fun.

Edited by I'manedgeowner

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macbwt,

 

I can't disagree with what you say. As I said, I enjoy doing projects like this and I wouldn't be making any permanent changes. Everything I suggested can be undone and 95% of the work involved has to be done anyway to swap a pump out. If need be, electric pumps are common enough now that they can be gotten from a salvage yard so costs can be kept to a minimum. I understand it's a project that isn't for everyone but I still see it as an option to swapping motors at much less cost and involves the necessary tear down of the front of the engine only once. If I didn't see this as a fun project to do I wouldn't consider it. I know most people wouldn't look at any of this, regardless of the reason, as fun.

Exactly look forward to your results should you go forward.

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Making plans to do this in the fall. Too busy during the summer to take something like this on. The car could end up sitting for weeks and only half done. I'll be more than happy to document this for you. Didn't think anyone would be interested.

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We all wait for someone else to be the first, LOL. Projects like this help us keep our options open.

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My Edge I have the 2.7 so i am lucky with the Edge. But my Wife has the 3.5 Ecoboost in her 2017 Explorer. This is my only major worry with her Explorer. We are planning on keeping it 8-10 year like our last cars. I do not mind doing coolant changes as they are not hard. But I have a very hard time disposing of the old coolant. All local part shops take Oil but not coolant. I have to find a very nice shop that will take my coolant knowing I am doing DIY work and not giving them business.

I am just wondering do dealers charge a lot for this service? Both the Edge and Explorer take the orange coolant. I do not want to mix unless I know I can get a complete flush out. This could be the first time going in for Ford service as I do my own oil changes. I will do most future service work myself.

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Call your dealer and see what they say. Coolant is usually regarded as a hazardous waste and needs disposal in a special place.

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I do not mind doing coolant changes as they are not hard. But I have a very hard time disposing of the old coolant.

 

I let it run down the driveway and into the grass along with all the other water used to flush the system. Ethylene glycol chemically breaks down in soil in a few weeks.

 

 

Coolant is usually regarded as a hazardous waste and needs disposal in a special place.

 

I guess you could argue there are some trace heavy metals in there- but calling it "hazardous waste" is a bit of a stretch. You know they spray that same "hazardous waste" all over planes that have hundreds of people inside it, hundreds of times a day, for months on end. The call it "de-icing" but they should just call it an ethylene glycol shower. It's not hazardous unless you go drinking it.

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I did not think the ecoboost engines had the same design or same problems. I'll have to check.

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I did not think the ecoboost engines had the same design or same problems. I'll have to check.

 

I know the trucks do not since their 3.5 Ecoboost motors are not transverse. They have a external water pump. If you can check that would be great. It seems like the 3.5 Ecoboost I have a hard time confirming info on. :(

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I let it run down the driveway and into the grass along with all the other water used to flush the system. Ethylene glycol chemically breaks down in soil in a few weeks.

 

 

 

I guess you could argue there are some trace heavy metals in there- but calling it "hazardous waste" is a bit of a stretch. You know they spray that same "hazardous waste" all over planes that have hundreds of people inside it, hundreds of times a day, for months on end. The call it "de-icing" but they should just call it an ethylene glycol shower. It's not hazardous unless you go drinking it.

Seems to depend of state law. Poured on the ground, it's sweet smell and taste attracts wildlife. If you can contact your local EPA; they should be able to advise if it's considered hazardous waste and where to dispose.

I believe the stuff they spray on planes is the same as RV antifreeze. Nontoxic.

Edited by enigma-2
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3.5EB transverse have the internal WP, 3.5EB longitudinal have the external WP. Really the truck has the updated 3.5 engine since it has TiVCT. The transverse engine is still VCT based.

 

The WPs in the EBs in Gen 2 are all external.

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Seems to depend of state law. Poured on the ground, it's sweet smell and taste attracts wildlife. If you can contact your local EPA; they should be able to advise if it's considered hazardous waste and where to dispose.

I believe the stuff they spray on planes is the same as RV antifreeze. Nontoxic.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but I won't be contacting my EPA about it. I have no desire to ever contact a government employee for anything unless absolutely necessary.

 

I am comfortable disposing it the way I do and will continue to do so. It's a small amount, on an infrequent basis, going into a huge yard. It's in no way harmful to any animals, the soil, or the streams. Ethylene glycol quickly breaks down in the soil into harmless components.

 

I'd also like to add that the reason RV anti-freeze is considered "non-toxic" and automotive is considered "toxic" is simply due to how the human body processes them. When processed by the human body, automotive AF breaks down into stuff that is damaging, however the RV AF doesn't. Outside of the human body though, there's nothing inherently more or less damaging to the environment when you look at the different types of glycol. Both quickly break down in the soil without issue, assuming we are talking reasonable concentrations.

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Is there a lawsuit going on for this?

No, nor should there be. If there was only the lawyers would get anything. All mfrs have certain parts that wear out including engines and transmissions. It’s called a limited warranty for a reason. If you want extra protection buy the extended warranty and you’re covered.

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What's wrong with contacting the government? They're only trying to help. :spiteful:

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Thanks for the suggestion, but I won't be contacting my EPA about it. I have no desire to ever contact a government employee for anything unless absolutely necessary.

 

I am comfortable disposing it the way I do and will continue to do so. It's a small amount, on an infrequent basis, going into a huge yard. It's in no way harmful to any animals, the soil, or the streams. Ethylene glycol quickly breaks down in the soil into harmless components.

 

I'd also like to add that the reason RV anti-freeze is considered "non-toxic" and automotive is considered "toxic" is simply due to how the human body processes them. When processed by the human body, automotive AF breaks down into stuff that is damaging, however the RV AF doesn't. Outside of the human body though, there's nothing inherently more or less damaging to the environment when you look at the different types of glycol. Both quickly break down in the soil without issue, assuming we are talking reasonable concentrations.

I think I remember killing my parents lawn a few times with coolant so it'll probably make a great Round-up replacement!!!!:):)

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I think it's very important to check the coolant reservoir every fuel fill up. Once you see the level has gone down if it's not leaking from a hose or something that most likely means the water pump has failed and water is being burned off. Watching the level closely could save your engine by catching a failed wp in time. I would never have bought this Edge if I knew about this design failure, it's inconceivable that Ford has made so many engines whose lives depend on the life of the waterpump.

Edited by erikrichard

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How long do you guesstimate an engine swap takes and how would someone do it without a lift?

I've read that the only way to remove the engine is out the bottom, so how could you even do it without a lift?

Edited by erikrichard

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It seems like Ford has changed coolants a lot in the life of the 3.5. From reading posts there was a Gold coolant, then green, and my wife's 2017 looks to have I think an orange color if I remember right. Has these been less failures as Ford has changed their coolants? Remember the old GM days of their coolant causing all kinds of fun.

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Data is not publicly available on water pump failures so it is hard to say. But orange has been used for quite some time at least 2012MY+ on the Edge/MKX and seems safe to say it has been working for them? That initial change interval still gets my goat tho LOL.

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This is all very interesting.  I just found out about this after my 2008 with just over 250,000 miles "died" a few months ago.  I am definitely glad I found out about this as I recently purchased a 2016 with a 3.5 since the other lasted so long.

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