snmjim Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) To prove the Catch Can is not necessary we would need to pull the heads and evaluate it on a car with high miles that has not had a catch can. Why would you go through the trouble of pulling the heads instead of just the intake manifold to do an analysis/validation of the coking issue? Pulling the heads will only show you the valve faces which will not provide any coking evidence, they'll look normal for a direct injected turbo charged engine. Pulling the intake manifold, which for this car is much easier, will provide you with what you need to see... QUIZ TIME: Which is??? No SpecialK, you are not allowed to participate in this quiz... Edited June 20, 2018 by snmjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randhj Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 Snmjim your correct, pull the intake sorry for the mistake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny@JLT Posted June 20, 2018 Report Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Not a 2.7EB motor but a Ford Ecoboost motor at that, just recently did a separator setup for this 2015 Fusion 2.0 EB(direct injected), 40k miles. To get to the PCV valve you have to remove the intake manifold, which allowed us to inspect the intake valves... Think a catch can is worth it here? The can's may not stop this completely from happening, but it'll slow the process down. Edited June 20, 2018 by Vinny@JLT 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtra Posted June 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) A couple photos of the install. Edited June 21, 2018 by Xtra 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special_K Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 Snmjim your correct, pull the intake sorry for the mistake Or take off the throttle body and use a bore scope ;-) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) Or take off the throttle body and use a bore scope ;-) You stole my idea asshat...lol... I'll go you one better...why even bother removing the throttle body when you can actuate the throttle plate to the open position and pass the bore scope straight in...BOOYA!!!... Edited June 21, 2018 by snmjim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 Before somebody reports this let me remind everyone that snmjim and Special_K are father/son. Normal forum etiquette rules don't apply! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special_K Posted June 21, 2018 Report Share Posted June 21, 2018 Before somebody reports this let me remind everyone that snmjim and Special_K are father/son. Normal forum etiquette rules don't apply! Idk akirby.....I'm greatly offended ..... I think you should give Snmjim a warning!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Idk akirby.....I'm greatly offended ..... I think you should give Snmjim a warning!!!! Go do your homework! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special_K Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Go do your homework! *kicks the floor* FINEEEEE gosh......*slams door, yells as loud as one can* you do your homework! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Forgot to say it in a high-pitched voice. That's the real kicker here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 *kicks the floor* FINEEEEE gosh......*slams door, yells as loud as one can* you do your homework! You forgot this........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special_K Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 You forgot this........ ROFL, I'm sorry i wll remember to roll my eyes next time ;-) Forgot to say it in a high-pitched voice. That's the real kicker here. Hey look here mister! I'm well past puberty....i think 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted June 22, 2018 Report Share Posted June 22, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted July 2, 2018 Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 FYI Ref our updated post on page 5, 2nd post... :happy feet: :happy feet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDTMF Posted July 3, 2018 Report Share Posted July 3, 2018 (edited) Not a 2.7EB motor but a Ford Ecoboost motor at that, just recently did a separator setup for this 2015 Fusion 2.0 EB(direct injected), 40k miles. To get to the PCV valve you have to remove the intake manifold, which allowed us to inspect the intake valves... Think a catch can is worth it here? The can's may not stop this completely from happening, but it'll slow the process down. How was the engine running? I guess I'm indirectly asking how much build-up must occur before engine performance is affected. (I installed a JLT at 8,000 miles) Edited July 5, 2018 by NoDTMF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted July 23, 2018 Report Share Posted July 23, 2018 FYI Ref updated catch can data point (2500 mi) on page 5 of this topic... :happy feet: :happy feet: :happy feet: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'manedgeowner Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Maybe a bit of devils advocate here. I'm not an engine guy but when I read someone write about a catch can being illegal in CA., which I wasn't aware of, and no one explains why that would be a lot gets explained about what I'm reading. Maybe it has something to do with the PCV valve? No one has addressed why catch can's are recommended for the track and an AOS is recommended for the street. Could it have anything to do with the PCV valve? Probably a good question to be able to answer. @lildisco, Catch cans are climate\weather sensitive which may explain your seasonal differences. Along with this climate sensitivity they collect moisture which the can does not capture and goes to the intake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) Maybe a bit of devils advocate here. I'm not an engine guy but when I read someone write about a catch can being illegal in CA., which I wasn't aware of, and no one explains why that would be a lot gets explained about what I'm reading. Maybe it has something to do with the PCV valve? No one has addressed why catch can's are recommended for the track and an AOS is recommended for the street. Could it have anything to do with the PCV valve? Probably a good question to be able to answer. @lildisco, Catch cans are climate\weather sensitive which may explain your seasonal differences. Along with this climate sensitivity they collect moisture which the can does not capture and goes to the intake. I can't answer for the CA owners however, I can differ this to Xtra (knowledgeable FEF CA owner) in addition to providing you with what facts I know in addition to recommending you contact the SME Vinny (JLT) 757-335-1940. Also recommend you go back through and read this entire topic string of which some of your questions will be answered... CA is extremely stringent about their emissions laws especially when it comes to where the PCV fumes vent. However, I do challenge the catch can issue because it's simply separating & containing the oil & some moisture from the crankcase gasses. Catch cans are not just recommended specifically for the track but more for anyone who wants to reduce/mitigate the coking of their intake valves caused by the burning of the oily PCV fumes over the course of time which eventually impedes performance & gas mileage. It is a fact that catch cans collect more moisture mixed oil during the cooler weather due to excessive condensation build up during start & warm up, hence the collected oil is milky in appearance due to the mix of oil & water. More details are provided on the last two paragraphs in the this topic string... Edited July 25, 2018 by snmjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'manedgeowner Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 snmjim, Will they be answered? When I have a choice between existing research from people with no skin in the game and marketing hype from someone with skin in the game I do have to admit I have a bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) snmjim, Will they be answered? When I have a choice between existing research from people with no skin in the game and marketing hype from someone with skin in the game I do have to admit I have a bias. Only you can determine if your questions are answered. As do SpecialK & I of which neither of us, as stated multiple times throughout FEF that we do NOT receive any benefits from vendors aside from our R&D agreements. However, when independent (i.e. snmjim & SpecialK aka JC Performance Developers) R&D results/data support the vendor's claims that is about as validated as you can get. FYI, in no way does our FEF contributions correlate to our professions, it doesn't pay...but engineering for DHS does... Edited July 25, 2018 by snmjim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'manedgeowner Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Ariel, Mercedes, AMG, Koenigsegg, if you're intent on measuring. Answer this, why does carbon build up on the valves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snmjim Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 (edited) Ariel, Mercedes, AMG, Koenigsegg, if you're intent on measuring. Answer this, why does carbon build up on the valves? I'm done, SpecialK & I are not here to compete or butt heads but to share our expertise to help the community. Edited July 25, 2018 by snmjim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 I'm done, SpecialK & I are not here to compete or butt heads but to share our expertise to help the community. Agreed - let's stay on topic please. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk2fast Posted July 25, 2018 Report Share Posted July 25, 2018 Would the 2019 2l EB need a catch can? Or does the 2019 2l EB have both port and direct injection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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