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Toby99

2019 Edge Low Speed Surge/Buck

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Have an issue with a 2019 Edge Titanium.  I feel and see ( tach bounces ) a surge or buck at low speed around 15 - 20 mph.  This happens when I first drive each morning.   I does seems to clear a bit but low speed acceleration is never smooth.  Have had vehicle to dealer service three times.  No codes so they say it is normal for the vehicle.   ?   Have a appointment at a different dealer in three weeks.  Have also contacted Ford Customer Care.

Any ideas?

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There is a TSB for the trans in the ST, same unit, for shifting, surging, flare.  I do not know if it applies to all 2019 models since the ST may be programmed diferent to make it sportier, but worth checking out.  There is a picture in a thread in the ST section.

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Thanks Jamie.  I'll hand carry a copy of the TSB to the next dealer service department. 

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I have a 2019 Ford SEL with the 8F57 transmission and am experiencing the same issue. Been in the service department 4x for more than 21 days total until the manager drove it and noticed a problem in low speed performance between the 3rd and 4th gears. Was told that I am the only one who has presented this complaint to Ford engineering which must be untrue based on what I have seen on the forum. Does anyone know if the TSB for the 8F57 Transmission - Harsh/Bumpy Upshift, Downshift and/or engagement concerns applies to all models with this transmission? 


Will also post on the ST forum...

TSB.jpeg

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Hi Susie,

Refreshing that I am not the only person here with this problem. 

 

I had my vehicle at different Ford service department this week.  This will also be my fourth visit to service.  Vehicle was kept for a week.  Techs said they could not duplicate the problem.  Stated on the ticket it was "normal operation" for this vehicle.  According to the service manager they have had other 2019 Edges in for the same problem.  He did contact Ford and was told the 2019 Edge 8F35 transmission is new.  Has some type of adaptive learning system.  ?   I guess Ford is hoping the transmission will fix itself after learning your driving habits.  Currently there are no service bulletins on the 2019 Edge 8F35 transmission.

 

To your question, I believe that TSB is for the Edge ST.  The Edge Titanium has a different transmission, the  8F35.  Not sure about your SEL.

 

I highly recommend you call Ford Customer Care at  800-392-3673 and open a case on your concern.  They should be able to tell you which transmission is in your SEL.

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Thank you. I have the same transmission. I will say that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I elevated this situation at my Ford dealership. The manager took the car home and experienced it for herself. They also ran the diagnostics while the car was driving cold. They noticed that there was an issue in engagement in the transmission between the third and fourth gears which in this transmission is pretty low - accounting for the issue at low speeds. They submitted this documentation to Ford engineering but they said I was the only one who complained about this problem. This is probably because the product is so new that the technicians don’t know enough about it to diagnose this. I suggest you take it to the dealership and have them do the same exact thing that my local dealership did paying attention to the lower gears. At least if there is a second person who submits what they call a WCR then it won’t be an isolated incident and may get to work on a fix. 

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1 hour ago, Toby99 said:

  I guess Ford is hoping the transmission will fix itself after learning your driving habits. 

 

To your question, I believe that TSB is for the Edge ST.  The Edge Titanium has a different transmission, the  8F35.  Not sure about your SEL.

 

 

Once again that's not what adaptive learning means - it doesn't learn your driving habits it learns your individual transmission quirks and wear over time and adjusts shift pressures to keep factory preset shift characteristics.

 

Since the non-ST models are all 2.0EB engines they all have the 8F35 transmission.  The Edge ST and Nautilus 2.7L have the 8F57.

 

Just because there is no TSB doesn't mean there isn't a problem.  It just means Ford hasn't seen enough vehicles with the same problem to make it a TSB yet.   They don't need a TSB to diagnose and repair a vehicle.  It could be a one off problem with your vehicle.  You just need a tech that's willing to take the time to diagnose and repair it.

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On my second visit to service I did request the tech take a portable computer along while I drove the vehicle.  The tech did experience the issue but said it was normal operation for the vehicle.  He did reset the transmission adaptive learning.  It may have initially helped a bit but the vehicle still bucks/surges between 15 - 20 mph.

 

I had an open ticket with Ford Customer Care but it was closed after my last service visit which fixed nothing.  I made them reopen it.  I'm not giving up.  There is an issue with the Edge transmission and Ford needs to  fix it.

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13 minutes ago, akirby said:

 

Once again that's not what adaptive learning means - it doesn't learn your driving habits it learns your individual transmission quirks and wear over time and adjusts shift pressures to keep factory preset shift characteristics.

 

Since the non-ST models are all 2.0EB engines they all have the 8F35 transmission.  The Edge ST and Nautilus 2.7L have the 8F57.

 

Just because there is no TSB doesn't mean there isn't a problem.  It just means Ford hasn't seen enough vehicles with the same problem to make it a TSB yet.   They don't need a TSB to diagnose and repair a vehicle.  It could be a one off problem with your vehicle.  You just need a tech that's willing to take the time to diagnose and repair it.

 

That is how adaptive learning was explained to me by service.  The point that irritates me is everyone at Ford saying a vehicle that bucks/surges is  normal.  Ford designed the Edge with 8F35 to operate that way.  Even though other 2019 Ford vehicles do not.

 

I've been to two different Ford service departments and both say the same.  It's normal operation. 

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Service departments are not Ford.  They are completely independent businesses.  Ford relies on the service depts to tell them what’s wrong.  If the tech says it’s normal then Ford has to take their word for it.    If they say it’s normal then they should let you take another one for a test drive  to prove it.   If they all do it then it probably is a design flaw and you’ll have to wait for Ford to come up with a fix.  If they don’t all do it then you need to find a dealer willing to fix it.

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I have same issue with my 2019 SEL FWD 2.0L.   Especially in the morning, it is like riding a bronco to work sometimes in low gears.  Really disheartening.

 

Has the update to the PCM helped anyone?

Edited by kbro
add vehicle details

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14 hours ago, akirby said:

Service departments are not Ford.  They are completely independent businesses.  Ford relies on the service depts to tell them what’s wrong.  If the tech says it’s normal then Ford has to take their word for it.    If they say it’s normal then they should let you take another one for a test drive  to prove it.   If they all do it then it probably is a design flaw and you’ll have to wait for Ford to come up with a fix.  If they don’t all do it then you need to find a dealer willing to fix it.

 

From my experience this is like the proverbial fingers pointed at the other.  Service departments say it's normal operation.  No diagnostic codes and nothing from Ford telling them it's a problem or how to fix it..  

 

Ford says it's up to the service department to determine if it's an issue.  They are the ones trained by Ford to repair the vehicle.

 

Question is, are the service departments passing this information to Ford?  On warranty work, does some department at Ford review service ticket for possible issues such as this one? 

 

  

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8 hours ago, kbro said:

I have same issue with my 2019 SEL FWD 2.0L.   Especially in the morning, it is like riding a bronco to work sometimes in low gears.  Really disheartening.

 

Has the update to the PCM helped anyone?

 

Same with my Titanium.  The bucking is always there but most noticeable on first drive in the am.

 

PLEASE call Ford Customer Care at 800-392-3673 and open a case on your concern

 

To my knowledge the PCM update referenced above is for the ST, not SEL or Titanium.  There is a forum thread on the ST issue and the TSB here:  

 

 

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I have an ST and this happens with it as well when cold, first drive in the morning, at certain times.  Not all the time it seems like it is some sort of double shift sometimes and others an all out hesitation like it is confused as to what gear you want.  I have had the TSB for the ST done and it still happens, even more now than I noticed before.  I wonder if it happens on the Nautilus as well to be honest, I assume they use the same programming but probably not since my moms MKC has like 3 trans modes to select from in the settings(Comfort, Normal and Sport).  It seems they may have not tested this trans software as much as they should have. And while they are two different trans I believe the real difference is in the torque limits they can handle and probably not much more than stronger bits for the V-6 one. 

Edited by jamie1073

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4 hours ago, Toby99 said:

 

From my experience this is like the proverbial fingers pointed at the other.  Service departments say it's normal operation.  No diagnostic codes and nothing from Ford telling them it's a problem or how to fix it..  

 

Ford says it's up to the service department to determine if it's an issue.  They are the ones trained by Ford to repair the vehicle.

 

Question is, are the service departments passing this information to Ford?  On warranty work, does some department at Ford review service ticket for possible issues such as this one? 

 

Well that’s always the case whether the service dept is owned by the mfr or independent.  The shop is the one with hands and eyes on the vehicle.  If they don’t communicate the right information to Ford then there isn’t much Ford can do.  You have to find a good shop.

 

But I think there is a misconception.  Ford doesn’t tell techs how to diagnose every potential problem.  They publish TSBs and troubleshooting procedures for the techs to follow but it’s still up to the tech to do the troubleshooting (with or without a code or TSB) just like any other mechanic.  Some are good at it and some are not.

 

Ford does review warranty claims but the dealer has to request engineering assistance for a tough problem.

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On 5/17/2019 at 10:36 PM, kbro said:

I have same issue with my 2019 SEL FWD 2.0L.   Especially in the morning, it is like riding a bronco to work sometimes in low gears.  Really disheartening.

 

Has the update to the PCM helped anyone?

 

I have had the exact same issue - the bucking is most noticeable in the morning on the way to work and then again on the way home.

 

Just picked up my car after it's 4th visit. The service department reset the PCM back to what it was when I first got it. It stills does the same thing but it is a little less severe. However, it still has some serious lag when I try to change lanes in rush hour traffic and I am terrified that I am going to get in an accident because the car hesitates. I am hopeful that more and more people are reporting this issue to Ford and that a fix will be forthcoming. Please continue to post with status updates as it helps to hear what other technicians are saying about the issue, especially those who don't give the standard lines. I will give it a couple of weeks and if it doesn't improve, will be taking it in one more time.

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I'm watching this thread with interest, as my 19 Titanium exhibits the same behavior! You can actually see the tachometer moving back and forth at low speeds.

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Appears the number of affected owners is growing. 

 

I'm still working with Customer Care trying to get this elevated.  It does not appear Customer Care has any direct access to Engineering.  Only way for Engineering to be involved is by dealer service departments contacting them and requesting assistance.  Hopefully the repeated requests for warranty service on this issue may help.  It is frustrating when the impression is you are imagining or making up the issue since Ford designed the vehicle to buck or surge and is "normal operation".  

 

I'm not giving up.  I hope you don't either.  Open a case with Customer Care and make those repeat visits for warranty repair.

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Still no resolution from Ford.  I am still in contact with Customer Care but receiving replies from them is difficult.  I call and leave emails but it takes a week for them to answer.  Will be scheduling my third service visit at yet another dealer.  Another hour + drive.  Difficult to find one knowledgeable of this problem and interested in fixing it.

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There seem to be some bad Torque Converter solenoids out there causing bucking issues.

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11 hours ago, akirby said:

There seem to be some bad Torque Converter solenoids out there causing bucking issues.

Is this info from Ford or from posts?

 

+1 as a 13mph buck 209 Titanium owner

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I suspect akirby is referring to a similar issue with the Edge ST.

 

Here's a link to the ST post.  Page five has a service record from Fingernip showing replacement of the torque converter.

 

https://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/26544-poor-trans-shifting-theory-investigation/?page=5

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add another one to the growing collection.  My wife's Titanium surges and bucks at low speed.  The tech who normally works on our vehicles said he didn't feel anything until the vehicle 'jumped" at steady throttle.  Ford has no information he can find.

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Looks like this problem isn't on just 2019 models.  I go to another Edge forum and this is what a gal says about her 2017 Titanium AWD 2.0   Has 45,000 miles on it.              

 

"An update - engine light came on again and the “ bucking”more severe. Took the car to dealer as I felt there was something more going on. Codes at the dealer were again 302, 304, and now 312 (intermittent misfiring) appeared. They were going to replace coils and plugs again but discovered coolant was low. Further testing overnight found a leak by a valve. They will pull the head to see if it’s just the gasket or if there is a crack. Unfortunately, it will be a couple of weeks depending on the scope of repair. My car is the third vehicle with the same engine and problem in recent weeks that my small town dealer has worked on."

 

 

If she posts anything more on her car, I will be sure to put it on here. 

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Well, this is getting worse with each new post.  Looks like I'll be printing out this whole thread and hand to the tech at my next service appointment.

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