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karpcbk

PTU drain plug

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Hi natrix...

 

Not sure if you are still monitoring this thread, but I joined just to ask you a question, so hopefully you are still around because I don't know much about cars.

 

I have a 2010 Mazda CX-9, and was directed to your thread posts because apparently our vehicles have the same transfer case. You seem to know a ton about this stuff, so I was hoping you could give me an opinion. I will try to keep this as short as possible. My car started smelling like burnt oil last week. Then, yesterday the smell got worse and plenty of "sludge" poured out onto our driveway and garage floor. Thankfully my dealer will be fixing it under warranty, but I have another concern. Along with the sludge problems yesterday, we had trouble on a few separate occasions going in reverse. We would put the car in gear, and no movement at all, just engine revving when pressing the accelerator. Then, something would catch and the car would jerk backwards. I'd put it back in drive and everything would work fine. So my question is, could the transfer case problem have damaged the transmission? Or is there any relation in the two components at all? Total coincidence? I am just concerned that if they replace the transfer case, should all be well, or is there potentially damage to the transmission that I could experience later, when the car is out of warranty?

 

I would greatly appreciate your reply and opinions.

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hello very good info i have a question is the edge ptu the same as the fusions ptu? i have a 07 fusion ihave added 75w140 syn oil with no real signs of leaks oil was low and dark and am wondering about drain plug location 148000 miles on car and is a fine ride thanks

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Natrix. What do you use on your drain plug as a sealer to prevent leaks

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Natrix. What do you use on your drain plug as a sealer to prevent leaks

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You posted a 1/4 plug. Was that a typo and you meant 1/2

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Quick question. Is this only a awd model issue or also the fwd models? I have 2011 model fwd. Are those included?

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PTUs are AWD only. But in a FWD, you could still have an axle seal leak, so beware of spots on the driveway/garage ...

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PTUs are AWD only. But in a FWD, you could still have an axle seal leak, so beware of spots on the driveway/garage ...

Interesting. Is that under the power train warranty? And is it common like the awd leak?

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Haven't had the opportunity to personally test this, but the literature certainly implies coverage under the powertrain warranty. Not as common as the PTU issue, but definitely written up on this forum.

 

Here is the Ford warranty guide for the 2011 Edge: http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~WOBEDG/~MUS~LEN/41/11frdwa6e.pdf , look at bottom of pg 10 and top of pg 11 (printed page numbers). I looked under the ESP plans, under the basic PowertrainCare, same thing.

 

5/60 on powertrain.

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Thanks to this site I confirmed that my PTU's vent was clogged and spilling out thick dirty fluid onto the floor under my 07 Edge. There was no sign of fluid leaking past the axel seals.

We drilled a hole in the bottom of the PTU and only about 4 oz. of thick dirty fluid came out. We then flushed the system out with a series of kerosene, then motor oil then 90W-140 Mobil 1 gear lube. One source said it takes 18 oz. another said 12 oz. Clearly it can't take 18 oz. since it starts to overfill at about 16 oz. We settled on about 14 oz.

 

After two days I can report that the leak of fluid onto the floor has stopped! Thanks guys for your guidance. With the loss of fluid I would have destroyed my PTU in a few thousand more miles.

 

By the way, if seals are needed, Ford provides two revised kits. You will need both. They ran me about $100.00 and was glad to return them since the above fix worked without the need for new seals or bearings, etc.

Edited by Feirstein
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Thanks so much to everyone who contributed to this subject, especially the_natrix. We have a 2008 MKZ, our PTU made it to about 80k miles before it started venting lube. Once I saw the mess on driveway, immediately raised car to investigate, found lube from front to back on underside of floorboard. Researched it (here mostly) and decided to pull out of car and disassemble. Found same sludge build up inside, washed everything out with solvent. I added a 3/8 drain plug in bottom of case. In my opinion way to little lube for type of gearbox and load, I plan to change fluid once a year. Also I replaced all seals except for pinion to rear differential output, was worried about messing up crush washer for gear mesh. So far no leaks and no whining, seems to be working well.

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I can report that after 5,000 miles that the repair I outlined above worked. No sign of a leak. The fluid will be changed out again next Summer and then every 2 years, just to play it safe.

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October 2013:

 

2011 Ford Edge AWD Limited. Manufactured Nov. 2010. 20,000 miles.

 

Found a puddle in my garage. Dealer replaced the seals for the Power Transfer Unit. They said I was lucky I found the leak and reported it, because the PTU only holds a small amount of fluid and without fluid the PTU doesn't last very long.

 

I asked. They said there is no dip stick to check fluid level for the PTU.

 

Amy

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You would basically need to have a mechanic install a drain plug and change out the PTU fluid regularly to ensure longevity. And watch for leaks. That's about all you can really do.

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Hi all

 

long time lurker here, owned a 07 ford edge awd since 2011.

 

I am a pretty stong audi mechanic, and I refuse to drive anything not AWD as my personal vehicles.

 

Anyways cut the crap and into the meat and potatoes of the issue.

 

There are 3 failure modes for leaking of the PTU.

[snip]

YMMV

 

This is a great analysis of the PTU problem on the Edge.

I wish you could do analysis of the 2006-2012 Toyota Rav4 V6 transmission.

It has tranny whine that starts around 15K miles and increases in volume over time until its louder than the radio.

No one has ever fixed it and Toyota finally quit producing V6 Rav4 in 2013 because of it.

 

Here is a post on rav4wolrd forum that has over 200,000 views and 1,000 posts on the tranny whine problem.

http://www.rav4world.com/forums/99-4-3-mechanical/75633-whining-noise-40-50-mph-solved-updated-8-26-10-tsb-out.html

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2011 Limited AWD 63,000miles - The last two months (Dec13/Jan14) starting to hear an occasional "click" from left front of car when shifting from forward to backward. I thought it was the left front CV Joint going out, so made an appointment. Then a few days ago, had the Edge in the driveway over 3 inches of snow....after running an errand on very cold and slushy roads. When I moved the Edge, I noticed a couple dozen drips of dark fluid from under my Edge. I thought it was just melting dirty slush, so no alarm. Took it in this morning for the CV Joint check and this afternoon (Jan 22, 14), got a call that the PTU needs to be replaced as it is CRACKED. In hind sight, the dirty drips on the snow were probably in the area of the PTU. The dealer is getting a new PTU in the morning and should be done tomorrow afternoon. Will be covered under my Extended Warranty (up to 75,000 miles). I don't tow, don't drive hard, mild driver (I save my fun for my fun cars). NOW...since new, about 3 to 5 times a year, I would get a very aggressive 2nd to 1st shift "slam." Typically when I was slowing down and then modestly accelerate while the transmission is downshifting (a couple of the events occurred when going up a small incline). No aggressive driving. A while back, took it into the Dealer and they put in some software that "should" have fixed it.....but over the last year it has happened again. It acts like it is downshifting and is initiating the downshift (maybe from 2nd to 1st).....then when the accelerator is asking to accelerate, the transmission aborts the downshift, and with the torque converter still locked-up, makes the shift with no cushion of an unlocked torque converter....thus no smooth shift......resulting in a very aggressive "slam." I wonder if these "slams" contributed to the PTU cracking? I really like my 2011 Edge and take very good care of it.....no dings, good syn oil, rotate tires....hoping to get many more miles out of it. Should I sell it and get a new one ???

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Thanks to the_natrix!!!!

 

You saved me $1300, I just bought a very nice used 2007 MKX from a (Chrysler) dealer. It came with a 3000 mile 3 month powertrain warranty. I started noticing grease drops on the floor occasionally.......I decided to take it to my mechanic (a ford dealer) because it needed the oil changed and had him check out the leak with only about 1-1/2 months and 1k miles left on the warranty. My mechanic called me and told me the PTU needed to be replaced. I had him give me an estimate which was $1300.00. I also Googled the problem and it brought me to the pictorial the_natrix did. I printed out all the info and brought it with me to the dealer. It took them a while but the Chrysler tech came out and told me they were going to replace the PTU under warranty and gave me a 2013 Dart loaner to drive home. When I went into the shop to get my stuff out of my MKX one of their mechanics asked me how I got the info and was clearly blown away by it. I am sure it saved me a trip and a few arguments.......

 

An interesting note is that my Ford mechanic said he would charge me $600 for the PTU so there was $700 in labor in the quote. I think 600 is pretty cheap for a transfer case........Do you think this is fords way of saying they're sorry?????? :)

 

Wojo

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Got my MKX back.....Federico Chrysler was very courteous with no charge for me. I did notice that they has a quart of Mercon V on the shop ticket.......is this what they are using in the PTU's now or do they loose tranny fluid in the PTU install.....????

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That is transmission fluid, PTU uses synthetic gear oil 75W140 oil (pretty standard for this AWD unit; MKX owners manual pg 305). Hopefully they did not fill the PTU with Mercon V (worth checking with them). Don't know if new PTUs come with gear oil filled or whether that is done at the shop.

 

Maybe the transmission was already low on fluid?

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Has anyone successfully drilled and tapped the PTU with it still in the vehicle? I have an 07 MKZ that just started leaking from the PTU vent this winter. Lots of highway driving in AWD here around Buffalo. Although I think I could handle pulling the PTU, it just doesn't sound fun with the car on jackstands in my garage in the dead of winter. I would have no problem drilling and tapping the case if it were feasible. I don't have any leaks other than the vent but I do have a whiny gear noise in the cabin while driving. It will drop a quarter sized spot on the floor overnight after a long highway drive. Thanks for the great writeup and pics!

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There are more than one reason why these leak. One of the major reason being heat, if you look at the location of the exhaust Y pipe and the rear cat you see that this thing is literly being cooked. Add to that the rear exhause manifold being right above. Then the issue of having the right side axle shaft pass through the unit, any radial runout of this shaft will make those seals, that are already bathed in super heated oil, flex more than they ever should, and then once this lubricant has been baked enough times it turns into mud, add to that -20F (like we have recently seen here in Minnesota) and that mud not turns into near concrete meaning those cold seals that are being asked to flex because the CV axle shaft has excessive runout is not getting any lubrication.

I know this rambels on and on, please PM me or leave a comment if you would like more clarification.

Edited by Deogi11
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Bought my 2008 Ford Edge with 65,000 miles on it. Replaced the external seal on the PTU at 70,000 miles. Just replaced all 3 seals (internal and external) at 105,000 miles. My extended warranty is up at 115,000 miles. And every time I get this fixed, I have to pay the deductible. I went round and round with the dealership on this one. I wanted the whole unit replaced but they refused. I'm going to be fuming mad when it fails again in another 30,000 miles and my warranty is up. They wouldn't even guarantee the seal for the next 30,000 miles. Has anyone had any luck with convincing their dealer to replace the whole unit? I'm not sure replacing the whole unit is the answer, but replacing the seal every two years is unacceptable.

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the_natrix might be to late for you but i found the replacement for bearing BT1-0383/Q... its Timkin bearing cup&cone LM503349/LM503310. also when had case apart found it poorly prepped after it was cast pulled a lot of attached aluminum shaving around machined areas

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