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Edgingage

From 856 CCA to 826 CCA in 10 days - brand new battery

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Happy Holiday Season folks:  2011 SEL here.

 

Dealer installed a new (6-month old) battery BXT-65-850 on mid month.  I measured the CCA just after installation and it was reading 856 CCA (I was pleased).  Ten days later I measured it again and it was reading 826 CCA (I wasn't so pleased...).

 

My question to you folks: is that a normal, expected performance in a brand newly installed battery?  Or it is a sign or indication of something else being or going bad?  Should I claim something to the dealer?

 

My driving is considered SOC (special operating conditions): short commutes, just so you know.

 

Thanks in advance for your time, comments and suggestions, always very appreciated.

 

 

Edited by Edgingage

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You need to have it fully charged using something like a Battery Tender and then check the CCA, and bear in mind that the ambient will also effect it.

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Ron's got it summed up.  SOC deserves routine tendering loving care :)  Driving is really meant to top up batteries, not revive dead ones, keep that in mind. Also, testers will have a bit of variance built in, check specs on your tester to see how much "here or there" is normal. Make sure the test clamps are seated firmly on the terminals every time on the largest piece of mass.  Hooking them up to the bolts can change test results.  V should be fine but CCA will be affected by this.

 

Did you reset the BMS?  That will also help the battery.  When you put it on a tender that first time, make sure to leave the ignition on (engine off) for the duration.  That will be sufficient to reset it.

Edited by WWWPerfA_ZN0W
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Hello folks:

 

Thanks Ron and Znow for your inputs.

 

I'm going to use a smart charger as a tender to fully charge it overnight with the ignition on, IF that's ok.  Please let me know if not appropriate.  Also, should I first turn the ignition on and then connect the smart charger or the other way around, or it doesn't matter which one is on first?  I not only don't know much about battery/electricity stuff but I'm also pretty paranoid about leaving a smart charger connected all night long with the ignition on in the attached garage (fire hazard?).  I'm also having some gas fumes/smells after fill ups, ...and I just filled up today (I already got advise about the gas smell in another thread; thank you folks...)

 

Good to know that I should use the largest piece of mass (battery terminals) to test it (I didn't know that; thank you).  As a matter of fact, I had mentioned to the dealer that the positive cable was not seated properly all the way down the post (it was left high up) and I can't clamp the positive post directly ( I also mentioned to them that the terminals were not cleaned off old corrosion and other deposits or debris, nor any protective sprayed on the new battery terminals).  I'm going back tomorrow (today) and they'll look into that.  Oh Ford dealer...

 

I've never reset the BMS before...  Things that I don't know how they work kind of scares/concerns me...  but I'll do so.

 

Thank you all.

Edited by Edgingage

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maybe you can get them to reset the bms for you for free, after all the hassle! 

since you have that gas smell, probably best not to use a charger at all until that issue is fixed. 

i would get the charger connected and working first tho, then turn the ignition to ON. 

the negative clamp MUST be to engine or chassis ground (an unpainted chassis surface or a solid engine component such as a generator mount or engine lifting eye), NOT the negative terminal.  If you hook it to the neg terminal, you WILL have to reset the BMS afterwards.

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Hello Enigma and all:

 

Well, I didn't measure the exact temp at the time I was measuring the CCA, but I did it in my attached garage which at this time of the year the ambient temp is between 9-13 C (48-55 F).  Hope this is good enough...

 

Talking about the garage: unfortunately I'll have to postpone any further actions/tests on my battery until further notice as one of my garage door's tension springs snapped and the door is inoperable for now.  TG the car was outside when this happened!

 

Thank you all for your suggestions and advise.  Stay tuned.

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On 12/29/2020 at 2:44 AM, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

maybe you can get them to reset the bms for you for free, after all the hassle! 

since you have that gas smell, probably best not to use a charger at all until that issue is fixed. 

i would get the charger connected and working first tho, then turn the ignition to ON. 

the negative clamp MUST be to engine or chassis ground (an unpainted chassis surface or a solid engine component such as a generator mount or engine lifting eye), NOT the negative terminal.  If you hook it to the neg terminal, you WILL have to reset the BMS afterwards.

I'm not familiar with this procedure, but expect that it will need a battery charger/tender that has charging rate greater than the current draw with the ignition ON. 

 

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4 hours ago, 1004ron said:

I'm not familiar with this procedure, but expect that it will need a battery charger/tender that has charging rate greater than the current draw with the ignition ON. 

 

Yeah, good point.  I have never measured the amp draw in this condition, tho it may be reduced if you can lock the doors with the ignition on.

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No, the dealer didn't reset the BMS, nothing; upon request this time they sat the cable connections all the way down the posts and sprayed some lube on top; I still see the greenish corrosion deposits on the connections...  Good enough I guess.

 

On 12/30/2020 at 7:52 PM, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

Yeah, good point.  I have never measured the amp draw in this condition, tho it may be reduced if you can lock the doors with the ignition on.

 

Znow, if you're not sure, with all respect I'll then take your advise on the side of caution...  I wouldn't want to use my vehicle as a guinea pig lol.  Do I REALLY need TO HAVE the ignition on?..  Also, when you say "make sure to leave the ignition on (engine off) for the duration", do you mean:

- not accessory on, but ignition on (with all those dash lights and chimes on?)

- for the duration: I usually leave the charger overnight, is it OK to leave the ignition on overnight for the reset purpose?

I've heard/read that having the keyfob out of reach for more than 8 hours will reset the BMS.  I do this quite often, like 3-4 times a week at least, as I parked more than 100m away from my movement area at work.

 

Edit:

Oh, a good chunk of text was cut off when I pressed submit...; I'll type it again below:

A while ago in another thread Bac2010 determined that my battery has 62.5 Ah capacity.  The smart charger's manufacturer recommends that "a good, safe rule of thumb is about 1/10th its Ah capacity".  Based on both info, I bought a smart charger that charges 7A @ 14.4V (it has a choice to charge 1A at the same voltage), can provide constant power supply at 13.0V, and can recondition at 15.8V.  Just in case this info may help you determine if it can do what you suggested once we figure out how much current is drawn with the ignition on.

 

Now, meanwhile, for me to get ready I need to ask a kind of dummy question: I usually hook the smart charger negative clamp to the bolt attached to the strut mount, behind the fuse box, please see attached picture.  Please let me know if that location is suitable to be used as negative/ground connection for the mentioned purpose.

 

Thanks in advance folks.

Negative connecton - 1c.jpg

Edited by Edgingage

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if you wait the 8+ hours, then technically, no, you do not need to have ignition in ON mode. yes, ON would the be the last step before starting the vehicle. I believe if you do not push the brake pedal, the ignition will only go to ON mode, not START/RUN.

 

I believe the point you use is a grounding point.  if it is bare metal to bare metal and your charger works, you are good.

 

yes your charger has sufficient capability to charge this battery. is it a CTek charger?

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Hello Znow and all

Thanks for all your answers!

I have the Canadian version CTek   It has all the same smart features, except it's way cheaper than a CTek here (CAD $68.99).

Same thing with the BA7: I have the Canadian version: it has all the exact same functions with the exact same software and hardware configuration except its casing looks different, and a little cheaper (CAD $62.99).

Charger pictures attached.

And I have one (hopefully last) dummy question about work with batteries: I've always read that we cannot disconnect/remove/replace the battery without a tender to keep the current/power to avoid/prevent computers/system from resetting and then having to get everything reconfigured again.  Questions:

- Is this true?

- What memory settings exactly do we risk losing and having to reconfigure again if we don't use a tender to remove/replace/disconnect the battery?  Radio "pre-sets"?

- If we risk losing some memory pre-sets (other than radio), then we need to use a charger/tender to keep the current going in the car.  Then, I would like to know what the order of steps is to connect and disconnect things (charger/tender, battery terminals/cables, other accessories?).  For example, connecting the charger before disconnecting the battery: does it not double up the current (12V battery + 13V charger) in the car now that both (battery + charger) are still connected together before the battery cable (positive or negative?) gets disconnected?  I have lots of doubts myself about the proper steps and order to connect/disconnect/reconnect charger and battery in the car.  Sorry for my ignorance...

The reason for my question is because, as you can see, I think I bought the tools I need to change the battery myself.  However, yes, my battery was just changed by the dealer (for the above reasons I was chicken to do it myself) but I still plan to add some accessories and eventually I'll have to disconnect and reconnect the battery again.  I just would like to make sure about the proper steps.  And yes, I've seen quite a few YT videos, but some people disconnect the positive first, other ones disconnect the negative first, some people reconnect the negative first, other ones reconnect the positive first, ...and I don't know who is right or wrong, or maybe the disconnect/reconnect order doesn't matter?  That's why I would like to ask in here instead of following who knows who's YT video is correct...  Hope you folks wouldn't mind my questions.

 

Thanks again for all your advice.  It's ALWAYS greatly appreciated.

Smart charger - 1.jpg

Smart charger - 2a.jpg

Smart charger - 3a.jpg

Edited by Edgingage

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Hello WWWPerfA_ZN0W and all:

 

I started your experiment (charging the battery first time with the ignition on), but I interrupted it (I got too chicken lol).  Two-three things happened during the first 4-5 minutes that I wasn't expecting or I just don't know enough, adding to a couple of other things that I didn't get clarification before hand, and therefore I didn't know what to expect:

- Firstly, I don't know if all the accessories (climate, radio, lights, etc) needed to be on or off with the ignition on.  The dash panel was lighted with the check engine light on, and the console panel was also lighted with climate, radio, gps and phone searching on.  Headlights were also on (automatic).  So, I just don't know if they all needed to be on as well, or all off.  So, I switched everything off but with the ignition still on.  And with the ignition on I couldn't lock up the doors (I pressed the door bottom down but after 1-2 seconds all doors unlocked again).  I tried a couple of times with the same result.  So, no, with the ignition on the doors can't be locked up.

- Secondly, there was a constant high-pitch sound coming from the engine compartment, I guess it's the computer either waiting for the car to start or ...I don't know.  It's the same high-pitch sound you get when you press the start bottom but don't start the car.  The difference is that when you press the start button but don't start the car that high-pitch sound eventually goes away after about 1 minute.  It didn't go away during the 4-5 minutes your experiment lasted. lol.

- Thirdly, as that high-pitch (computer?) sound didn't go away, I was afraid that the computer may fry.  I switched the ignition off, sorry (the noise went away).

 

Now, during all that time (about 4-5 minutes) the charger progression bars were not increasing as an indication that the battery was actually getting progressively charged.  In other words: with the ignition on, apparently the battery was not maintaining/increasing enough charge, it looks like the ignition was draining about the same current the battery was getting from the charger.  The reason I think so it's because as soon as I switched the ignition off, the charger progression bars started to increase, indicating that the battery was increasing its charge.  I had the charger selection at 7A/12V.  I initially (by mistake) almost put it on the recondition mode at 14.4V!!!; everything would have gotten fried, I believe :(

 

I also want to tell you that, before I initiated this experiment, I checked again the battery CCA and it's reading 856 again.  So, I think you and others were right regarding the way I was taking the measurements.  Probably I didn't have the clamps/clips well positioned when I got the lower reading, and therefore I DO sincerely apologize about that (that was the main reason for this tread).  I should have done what I learned some time ago: measure TWICE! (cut once lol).

 

Now, if you could please clarify about the accessories and headlights (on or off), and also about the high-pitch sound/noise cause, and you think I should still retry to recharge the battery with the ignition on, just let me know, although you also told me I should do it the very first time I'll charge the battery so, probably I shouldn't try any more.

 

Just let me know what you think when you can.

 

I thank you and everyone very much.

    

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1 hour ago, Edgingage said:

Hello WWWPerfA_ZN0W and all:

I also want to tell you that, before I initiated this experiment, I checked again the battery CCA and it's reading 856 again.  So, I think you and others were right regarding the way I was taking the measurements. 

 

I thank you and everyone very much.

    

 

Below is all I would have done - always test a battery with it fully charged.

 

On 12/28/2020 at 4:52 PM, 1004ron said:

You need to have it fully charged using something like a Battery Tender and then check the CCA, and bear in mind that the ambient will also effect it.

Edited by 1004ron

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Sorry Ron, I checked the battery voltage and it was reading 12.46V, I thought it was fully charged, I didn't know there is a difference between fully charged by the car or by a charger....  I also knew that the ambient temp was about the same both days...

 

I'm learning; now I know better.

 

Thank you and others, sincerely.

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