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edkene

Rough Idle When Cold/P0301 Code

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Hello All,

 

First off, I have a 2016 Ford Edge 2.0L Ecoboost SE with 63,XXX miles on it. I am the original owner. 

 

Looking for a bit of help. A while back I started experiencing a rough idle immediately after filling up my fuel tank (allowed the handle to pop; never topped it off). Shortly afterward I started having rough starts in the morning when it got cold and then it popped a CEL. I pulled the code and it was a P0301, Cylinder 1 Misfire.

 

I did some research and came across people who were reporting that the issues with rough idle immediately after a filling up a tank were typically caused by a bad Fuel Vapor Separator/Valve (part number F2GZ-9D289-A, if anyone ever needs it). I replaced it (a bit of a pain...story of another time) and I reset the ECU (disconnected the battery and stepped on the brake for about 10-15 seconds). Things were better for about a day, and then I got the rough idle while cold and it popped the P0301 again.

 

In my research I noticed a couple of people mentioned that replacing the Fuel Vapor Separator/Valve didn't always do it and that you needed to replace the Fuel Vapor Solenoid (part number 9U5Z-9F945C if anyone needs it). I got the part and replaced it (again, a bit more of a pain than I expected - story of my life). Again, I reset the ECU after replacing the unit. The vehicle started and ran fine immediately after replacing it and the next morning when it was cold. When I started it up after work I got the rough idle again and popped the same code (P0301). 

 

Question for everyone: what am I missing? This thing has all the hallmarks of a bad EGR valve (slight smell of gas, poor gas mileage, rough idle at start) but as far as I can tell these vehicles don't have it. When I look at the shop manual for the vehicle it gives the following for reasons for a P0301 code:

  • Ignition System
  • Fuel Injector 1 
  • Running out of Fuel
  • EVAP Purge Valve 
  • Fuel Pressure
  • Evaporative Emission System
  • Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system
  • Base engine
  • misfire monitor neutral profile correction has not been relearned since the last mechanical repair

 

The full list of issues are:

Rough Idle When starting

Slight Smell of fuel

No rough idle for the first start or two after resetting the ECU

Changed out the Fuel Vapor Valve

Changed out the Fuel Vapor Valve Solenoid

Poor fuel economy

After start up and the engine has been running for 10-15 seconds, no more rough idle. Can normally get past it by having the engine rev for 3-5 seconds

 

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

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Welcome.  As soon as I saw 2016 and 2.0 and a misfire code, I was ready to cry lol.

 

It may simply be the plugs need changing.  ecoboosts eat plugs for lunch, and 60K is a good interval to change them anyway regardless of engine.

 

if a plug change/code reset does not fix the problem, you MAY be looking at a coolant intrusion problem.  check the engine label on the right side of the valve cover.  post a pic plz.  does it say Cleveland or VEP.  how is the coolant level? you will want to mark current level with a marker, then follow progress daily/weekly.

 

do you have remaining ford warranty?

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Znow,

 

thanks for the info. I’ll take a look at the valve cover and post a pic - family has been in town and haven’t had a chance to do anything in the past couple of days. I’ll also make sure to keep a closer eye on the coolant level. 
 

One thing that I have found is that the engine actually does better when it is cold - it isn’t until after it has warmed over that the misfires occur. 
 

From what I’ve been able to read and a couple of mechanics I’ve talked to this could be a symptom of a bad ignition coil - after they warm up they can start having issues but be fine when cold. I’m going to troubleshoot some more tomorrow and see if that is the case. Either way though I’m going to replace the spark plugs since I’ll pull #1 to see how it looks anyway. 

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After start up and the engine has been running for 10-15 seconds, no more rough idle.

With the engine off and cooling down, the coolant which is still under some pressure makes its way into the combustion chambers, and then when its started takes some time to displace that coolant - this theory could explain what you describe, but that is speculation, which is also what the couple of mechanics were doing.

 

Before spending money on spark plugs or coils, I'd follow WWWPerfA_ZN0W   advice to check your engines place of manufacture - also pulling all plugs and visually inspecting them will also reveal if there's coolant intrusion. 

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Thanks 1004 - I’m planning to pull plugs this afternoon. As for the engine manufacturing location, it says Cleveland Engine Plant manufactured on 14 June 2016. 
 

looked up the TSB - this could really suck if engine coolant intrusion is the issue. 

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24 minutes ago, edkene said:

Thanks 1004 - I’m planning to pull plugs this afternoon. As for the engine manufacturing location, it says Cleveland Engine Plant manufactured on 14 June 2016. 
 

looked up the TSB - this could really suck if engine coolant intrusion is the issue. 

With your confirmation that its a Cleveland engine makes it more likely your engine has the coolant intrusion.

 

At least now you are well informed prior contacting Ford - use all the info on hand and stress to them that its a Latent defect and you expect  an engine replacement at no cost to you.

 

A work associate/friend  is the second owner of one of these, and Ford would not commit to any assistance until they'd opened the engine to diagnose, so he didn't want to risk them declining so he bought a new engine from Ford and had an independent shop install.

 

You didn't respond to the previous question if you had an extended warranty - anyway, the extended warranty has first amount payable by you, which you should reject in this case.

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I had this code last year in our 2016 2.0.  I replaced the plugs but it did not clear the code.  I moved the coils around and the code moved as well.  I bought a used coil and the code has yet to return.

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1004 - I do not have the extended warranty, and since I’m at 64k miles and over 5 years since I bought it (Nov 2016) this will be *fun*

 

I am still planning on doing a bit more troubleshooting tonight (pulling plugs, swapping around the coils) to ensure that isn’t the issue, but based on the symptoms I’m leaning towards the water intrusion. Hopefully not the case though…

 

I do have an appt at the dealership to have them check it out as well. We’ll see what happens

Edited by edkene
fat fingered stuff

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hopefully will move with the coil/plug and that's that.  if you take it to the dealership and they diagnose as a coolant intrusion problem, prob wont be able to get warranty coverage afterwards. BUT you can still possibly get assistance by mediating thru Ford corporte.

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Sorry for the delay in an update but wanted to get everything worked out with Ford first.  
 

Took the vehicle in last week and they were backed up on getting to the vehicle - seems the local dealership has been over-booking their techs. First day didn’t get to it, finally got to it the second day. They took a look and suspected a coolant intrusion problem so pressurized the coolant system and left it overnight. The next morning they pulled the plugs (this is the method outlined by the TSB), looked for water intrusion and what do you know, I’ve got a problem. They give me a call and say it isn’t under warranty and it’ll be close to $7k to fix. 
 

I then called Ford customer service and explained the issue. Bunch of back and forth later and I’m paying less than 25% of the quoted amount and Ford is covering the rest (thank you for the “latent defect” phrase). Interesting thing I learned - the amount I’m paying and the amount Ford is paying (combined) is less than the quoted amount from the dealership. When I asked the dealership about the discrepancy I was told that my initial quote was the “customer amount” and the new amount that is being paid is the “warranty amount.”

 

I now have the parts on order and will be awaiting the repair. When dealing with Ford they said they would reimburse me for my rental vehicle cost, which is a nice and unexpected addition. 
 

On an extra note, when I first took the vehicle in to the dealership I asked if they were seeing a lot of these engines with this issue - the service adviser said that he has been seeing an awful lot of them lately. When I asked what people who are out of warranty have been doing he replied that they have normally been trading them in. I can’t imagine the hit people are taking by trading in a vehicle with a useless engine. 

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