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Theakerr

Heating Problems

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I had the heater core replaced almost as soon as I took delivery of my Edge. For about 2/3 months everything worked as it should then in late winter the odd time there was minimal heat coming from the floor ducts although there was plenty of heat coming out of the vents. Of course Ford could do little because it was a) warm and B) erratic. Now the problem is back big time and it is no fun when the temp is -20 in the GWN. Specifically minimal heat and an actual cold blast component when it is blowing through the floor ducts. I would guess that the average temp of the incoming air is about 18C. After some discussion and being told this was "normal", my dealer has agreed to look at it (after the new year due to the holidays). A while back someone else had a similar problem, but based on my search the outcome does not appear to have been reported. Does anyone have any feedback? I would like to have some info when it goes in. Thanks

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I had the heater core replaced almost as soon as I took delivery of my Edge. For about 2/3 months everything worked as it should then in late winter the odd time there was minimal heat coming from the floor ducts although there was plenty of heat coming out of the vents. Of course Ford could do little because it was a) warm and B) erratic. Now the problem is back big time and it is no fun when the temp is -20 in the GWN. Specifically minimal heat and an actual cold blast component when it is blowing through the floor ducts. I would guess that the average temp of the incoming air is about 18C. After some discussion and being told this was "normal", my dealer has agreed to look at it (after the new year due to the holidays). A while back someone else had a similar problem, but based on my search the outcome does not appear to have been reported. Does anyone have any feedback? I would like to have some info when it goes in. Thanks

 

 

Ford has addressed in a letter that there is a Heater core problem in the Edge. They have extended the warranty to 6 yrs 100,000 miles I believe

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Based on the fact that I can get hot air out of the upper (airconditiong) vents I am assuming (Yes I know the definition of assume) that it is not a heater core issue. I have to suspect actuators but!

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I am not exactly familiar with the Edge design for HVAC, but it does sound like your flaps and/or actuators are not working right.

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Ford has addressed in a letter that there is a Heater core problem in the Edge. They have extended the warranty to 6 yrs 100,000 miles I believe

 

Ford has sent out a letter stating you may experience heater core problems and had extended the warranty on the heater core to 6 years or 105,000 miles. If you have heater core problems, they will inspect and do repairs as required. In the letter it states that it may only require that the factory coolant needs to be flushed and a "REVISED" coolant put in. Since they know they have a problem with the factory coolant I am asking that they preform the flush and coolant change before I have problems OR before I am stuck with the problem after 105,000 miles. So far I have not had any luck and am asking the Auto section of the BBB to look into this.

jlineman

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My local dealer was in touch with ford and they have told them to start with the flush procedure. Ford have sent my local dealer the special tool for the flush and it is going in for it (the flush) on Jan 6. Based on the "facts' as I see them I dont think that will resolve the problem. However, as the dealer says they have to follow Ford's recommended protocol. If the flush does not work then we will proceed to the next step, whatever that is. After yet another cold day with minimal heat I must admit that I stopped off to price out a Highlander. FYI I have just received my letter re the extended heater core warranty.

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The problem is not with the heater core at all, and AFAIK any heater core from any vehicle will be in the same condition if you used that coolant they used. The problem was with the fluid they used in the vehicles manufactured before April 2008, it seems that fluid for some error was out of specs, lacking of some ingredients or anti-corrosive ingredients or God knows what!!! according to the dealer I took mine for a checkup, and was corroding the heater cores and some other parts, non replaceable, as probably the engine block as well. They sent a letter stating that if you have diminish performance (the difference between the two central vents in temperature should be 15 degrees, they have also a chemical kit to test the fluid, otherwise they consider it is working fine) you should take it to the dealer and follow the protocol, first the flush, and replace the coolant with a revised one, after that the heater core should not have any problems, anyway they extended as stated above the warranty for 6 years or 105,000 miles, (that in my case makes no difference after purchasing the warranty for 6 years...) it will be good to force them at least to perform the flush in all vehicles as a recall...

Edited by Kanatronic

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The problem is not with the heater core at all, and AFAIK any heater core from any vehicle will be in the same condition if you used that coolant they used. The problem was with the fluid they used in the vehicles manufactured before April 2008, it seems that fluid for some error was out of specs, lacking of some ingredients or anti-corrosive ingredients or God knows what!!! according to the dealer I took mine for a checkup, and was corroding the heater cores and some other parts, non replaceable, as probably the engine block as well. They sent a letter stating that if you have diminish performance (the difference between the two central vents in temperature should be 15 degrees, they have also a chemical kit to test the fluid, otherwise they consider it is working fine) you should take it to the dealer and follow the protocol, first the flush, and replace the coolant with a revised one, after that the heater core should not have any problems, anyway they extended as stated above the warranty for 6 years or 105,000 miles, (that in my case makes no difference after purchasing the warranty for 6 years...) it will be good to force them at least to perform the flush in all vehicles as a recall...

 

The problem is that my dealer is waiting for a special tool. I have been waiting for the dealer to do a flush for 2 weeks. The dealer promised that they would get the tool from Ford by the end of the year. The problem is that the daytime temperatures have been around -25 to -30 and the vehicle is freezing inside. Ford has F_ckup again big time. Ford Quality is crap.

 

Ford - Don't Sell Crap

 

Can't they do something to escalate this? Like couriering this tool to the dealers? Providing me a loaner or something?

 

www.twitter.com/smokinedge

www.twitter.com/freezinedge

 

Gary

Edited by garyedwardsmith

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The problem is that my dealer is waiting for a special tool. I have been waiting for the dealer to do a flush for 2 weeks. The dealer promised that they would get the tool from Ford by the end of the year. The problem is that the daytime temperatures have been around -25 to -30 and the vehicle is freezing inside. Ford has F_ckup again big time. Ford Quality is crap.

 

Ford - Don't Sell Crap

 

Can't they do something to escalate this? Like couriering this tool to the dealers? Providing me a loaner or something?

 

www.twitter.com/smokinedge

www.twitter.com/freezinedge

 

Gary

 

You can find problems in pretty much any car out there, even very expensive ones, the main problem is the care they take after the problem is detected to solve it, that in our case seems to be a not very efficient procedure, how much will cost Ford to replace and flush all those vehicles, a recall will be far better, sorry that is coolant, $15.00 for two gallons or so!!!!

If I were you I would take the car to another dealer, with a letter stating what to do, there is no such a thing of "special tool" to do a flush, they do it daily there probably, you can do it with a garden hose in your driveway, that is total BS. Probably they are waiting to receive the right revised coolant or any other thing, also IIRC the intake conducts have to be replaced as well, but a flush is thing that can be done in half an hour is any ZAP lube around you....

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This is what the dealer is telling me. I thought it kind of strange myself so I phone Ford Canada customer service and they supported the dealers explanation and were not able to do anything for me. So I am still waiting for the flush.

 

I am going to phone Ford Customer Service again tomorrow to complain. Why don't they tell you the truth?

 

Has anyone out there had the recommended flush done by their dealer yet?

 

Gary

Edited by garyedwardsmith

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It would be most interesting to hear from a Ford mechanic if a special tool is required. It may well be. Further the story is very consistent on this forum and other searches I have done. With the complications associated with engine design for efficiency, I would not be surprised. I know that there is a special tool for changing the coolant on some motorcycles. It can be done without the tool but is a lot less reliable leaving the potential for air in the system and subsequent hot spots. My dealer told me it is at least a two hour job and that the vehicle has to be left overnight so that it is cold when they do the flush.

Edited by Theakerr

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Thanks for update.

 

The dealer did tell me that it would take 2 hours but he didn't say I would have leave overnight!

 

Still waiting for the Dealer to call.

 

This tool must be made of gold! - I could have made my own tool by now.

 

You think that they could escalate getting the tool out to people who live in colder climates, rather than waiting for the tool for all dealers?

 

Obviously someone in Florida is not likely going to freeze to death.

 

Ford your service is worse than your quality!

 

Gary

Edited by garyedwardsmith

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Basically the diminish performance according to what I was told by them, and have read, it due to some rust deposits on the system, the particles partially obstruct the flow and then you know the rest, the flush will remove them for good (or make them worst) but certainly is the first step, if the rust and deposits are removed, the new clean fluid will do the work and you may have no more problems...

 

Here are some videos on how to do it yourself...

 

Guys have you ever seen how a flush is done, professionally? Well basically the fluid will push the air out, that is not a problem, simplifying it, in order to do a flush you open the valve and the base of the radiator, and let the fluid come out, then replace the fluid with water, and then with a machine they have, some kind of pressure machine, or pump (that BTW all mechanics may have, specially the dealers) they keep on pumping water in the system, and filtering it, they start the car to use also the pump of the car, that will eventually remove all residual fluid replacing it with clean water and pumping out all residues from the oxidation that get trapped at the filter, later on they let the water come out the same way and replace it with the right fluid...period...

It looks more complicated of what indeed it is...

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I have done this several time in the past to other vehicles. Usually I buy a Flush Kit that allows you to attach a garden hose to one of the hoses running off the rad.

 

But in this case since it is under warranty I am not going to touch it since it might void the extended warranty on the heater core.

 

I believe this is something that has to be done by a dealer?

 

I will read the letter again but I bet you there is a special additive or coolant they are using?

 

Still waiting for a call from the dealer

 

Gary

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I have done this several time in the past to other vehicles. Usually I buy a Flush Kit that allows you to attach a garden hose to one of the hoses running off the rad.

 

But in this case since it is under warranty I am not going to touch it since it might void the extended warranty on the heater core.

 

I believe this is something that has to be done by a dealer?

 

I will read the letter again but I bet you there is a special additive or coolant they are using?

 

Still waiting for a call from the dealer

 

Gary

 

 

I have already posted on this in a seperate post, but there is a special tool from ford and no this is not a simple drain and fill or flush procedure. this is much much more involve and will take a couple of hours.

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The dealer sent me an email and said he will follow up with Ford if he doesn't get the tool in the next couple of days.

 

God can't they escalate this problem and get some action.

 

I guess the fat cats in Oakville have the week off and nothing is going to happen.

 

I hope they are happy stuffing their face will turkey while I am in this freezing Edge.

 

Gary

Edited by garyedwardsmith

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Update: Dec 30/08

 

Dealer advised that the tool is being shipped from the US and won't be here now until early January.

 

So much for the promise of shipping this "Golden Tool" to dealers by the end of the year.

 

This means a couple of more weeks of freezing in my new Ford Edge.

 

FreezinEdge

Edited by garyedwardsmith

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I have already posted on this in a seperate post, but there is a special tool from ford and no this is not a simple drain and fill or flush procedure. this is much much more involve and will take a couple of hours.

 

 

Yes it is more complicated than a simple flush, but even though ZapLub will do it in less than 45 minutes, one hour tops. They have done that in the past to some of my vehicles, they have the "special tools" to do it, basically is a compresor with a filtered chamber at the end, the fluid is reverse circulated under presure and filtered in that chamber to remove the contaminats, similar to the one used in the oil flush, then once the flow is estable for a few minutes and all particles have been removed from the ducts, they flush it with water, and replace the whole fluid with fresh one. Unless the edge is completelly different ot any other vehicle created to the date, and the cooling system is unique, there is no such a thing of an special tool, unless the connectors or adapters they use to hook the machine to the system are called that way, and if that is the case, then those "special tools" should be at the delaer unless they have lost theirs, as they come with the machine they have for regular flushes...

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I spoke to the Dealer Owner and assures me that there is a special tool which is expected to arrive early January and he will show the "Golden Tool" to me then.

 

He can't do anything to fix the heater core until Ford provides the tool to him.

 

So nothing is being done 'til then.

 

Stay Tuned

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So I understand that there is an issue with certain Edge heater cores.

 

Instead of waiting around for the core to fail, is there any preventive measure to do?

 

Has anybody spoken to the dealer about changing the coolant? Will the gold coolant fail if changed before 100K miles?

 

Will the new Green coolant be used in place of the gold if the flush in not performed?

 

I just do not want to wait for this to be a concern. I would like to nip this in the bud before any action is required.

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This heater core problem is starting to look like one of those in-betweens.

Enough Edge/MKXes escaped with DEFECTIVE core’s that it generated a TSB, but not enough to call us all in.

 

Having spent the past 40 yrs with a legal professional (she’s not going to see this or I would have to spend the next 4 HOURS legalizing this post) I see lawyers all over this thing.

 

Some VP said “we have a problem send the letter”

 

The LawyerS say "you can’t do that” because 10% of ALL the Edge/MKXes ever sold will come in the next day with heater problems.

 

VP says "what do you suggest"

 

LawyerS say “we need a make um feel good TSB”

“when the 10% show up we’ll do a flush and refill” it’s NOT going to stop the defective cores from failing but it’ll make um feel good

 

 

Message to garyedwardsmith: :rockon:

The next time you’re in Vegas please contact me.

With your luck (def PTU AND heater core) I want you on the Craps table, I’ll be betting the “pass/don't line and come/don't line” we’ll clean um out :happy feet: !

 

ab

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This heater core problem is starting to look like one of those in-betweens.

Enough Edge/MKXes escaped with DEFECTIVE core’s that it generated a TSB, but not enough to call us all in.

 

Having spent the past 40 yrs with a legal professional (she’s not going to see this or I would have to spend the next 4 HOURS legalizing this post) I see lawyers all over this thing.

 

Some VP said “we have a problem send the letter”

 

The LawyerS say "you can’t do that” because 10% of ALL the Edge/MKXes ever sold will come in the next day with heater problems.

 

VP says "what do you suggest"

 

LawyerS say “we need a make um feel good TSB”

“when the 10% show up we’ll do a flush and refill” it’s NOT going to stop the defective cores from failing but it’ll make um feel good

 

 

Message to garyedwardsmith: :rockon:

The next time you’re in Vegas please contact me.

With your luck (def PTU AND heater core) I want you on the Craps table, I’ll be betting the “pass/don't line and come/don't line” we’ll clean um out :happy feet: !

 

ab

 

 

Excellent analysis.

 

I use to work in manufacturing and as a Product Manager we were responsible for managing these type of situations.

 

Basically it comes down to economics. Although (as a Product Manager) you are concerned about Quality it comes down to logistics and cost. In this situation probably the right thing to do is to recall all vehicles affected and replace the heater cores. However there is two problems with doing this 1) cost (#vehicles x 1 Day Service/vehicle x Cost to reimburse Dealers) 2) further piss customers off by tearing apart the dash.

 

This flush is like a cheap way of appeasing the general public because Ford knows that as the vehicle gets older few people retain their vehicles and will not care as it will be someone else's problem to replace the heater core. Also most people will probably not even do the flush because they got a letter that warrants the heater core.

 

Obviously the flush is the cheapest way to go, and they actually tried to put a spin on it to make the consumer think they actually got something out of this with the extended warranty.

 

Ford your warranty service is worse than your Quality.

 

------

 

ab

 

I might take you up on my next trip to Vegas.

 

Gary

Edited by garyedwardsmith

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I have a 2008 Edge Limited. I have always thought the heater was barely adequate, but just figured I'd have to live with it. Then the campaign letter arrived a couple of weeks ago and I thought "That's it!". When the temps in my area get down below 20 degrees (F), it takes forever to get the cabin warm and the air coming out of the vents is only luke warm, NEVER HOT. Turning up the fan or setting it to 90, actually makes it worse: the air seems to get cooler.

 

I brought it into the dealer with the letter last week. To make a long story short, the claimed they performed the recommended tests and determined the problem wasn't the heater core, it was the thermostat. Since it wasn't the heater core, I had to pay $89.00 labor for the diagnosis and then another $149.00 the next day parts/labor to replace the thermostat.

 

The heater performance is no better. It was 4 degrees outside this morning and it took 45 minutes to feel any warmth in the cabin at all with the fan cranking at full speed the whole trip. I had the control set to 75 and there is no way it was that warm in there. It felt like MAYBE 60 degrees. Switching to "recirc" made things better, but as soon as I switch it back the air temp from the vents drops again. I'm not happy and will be talking to them tomorrow about the next step(s) and getting my money back for the repairs they did that didn't fix the problem.

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