wwest
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Posts posted by wwest
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For those of you who have driven both the FWD and AWD versions of the 2011 Edge, do you have any subjective opinions on how the ride or handling compares over a similar course, similar conditions?
Haven't driven one, don't own one, don't plan to.
But.
Partially engaging the rear drive while turning might very well result is rather strange handling dynamics on an adverse, slippery, roadbed surface. During low speed acceleration, straight ahead, no real problem except for premature (<100,000 miles) failures within the drive train's weakest link(***) due to drive line windup and/or tire scrubbing.
*** PTO for Ford, Transaxles(TC lockup clutch) for Acura MDX.
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Ok,
SO my wife's 2003 Explorer has one of the Cam Chain cassettes go after 7 years and around 85K miles. Like two weeks after it was in for service and I asked the dealer if there was anything I should do because I planned to keep it another year.
After driving everything else out there, it came down to three...........Subaru Tribecca, Mazda CX9 and an Edge Limited. After going back and forth and driving all three my wife decided on a red 2010 Edge Limited AWD with just about everything but the nav system. It's our seventh new Ford and so far before it we've only had one problem car.
We picked it up 1 February 2010
It first started dumping Mercon on my garage floor at about 1200 miles (late Feb). Passenger side seal replaced by dealer.
A few weeks ago on a day trip with my kids we started smelling that smell again..............took it to the dealer the next day..............and yup, it gets another new seal (late August 7,500 miles). A week after we got it back we could smell that smell again, but only occassionally. late last week my wife smelled it when she was backing in the garage so I slid underneath for a look.
No Mercon this time. Instead, nice thick gear oil leaking down the left (driver's) side.
Dropped it off at the dealer today. PTU is bad. New unit on order and supposed to arrive on Wednesday.
Anyone else having this problem with the 2010's? Does the new PTU end the problem or will I be bringing it back for new seals in a few weeks or at the first cold snap?
And last.............................how is this problem still ongoing 3 years later? Maybe it's time to spend a little less money on Mike Rowe commercials and a little more on engineering a solution.
The new FWD or F/awd 2011 Ford Explorer cools the PTO/PTU using engine coolant. Perhaps you could get Ford to retrofit the 2011 Explorer's PTO to your......
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Willard also believes that FWD based AWD systems are inherently unsafe and should be outlawed. Apparently the laws of physics are different in his universe.....
Yes, most F/awd systems, Honda/Acura's SH-AWD only exception, are patently UNSAFE in the very conditions for which many of us shop/purchase them.
Perfectly fine, admittedly even better than RWD or even R/awd, unless you find yourself in climate or roadbed conditions that are marginal.
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I had mine 09 PTU seals changed back in January and I see occasional drop on the driveway. It happens after driving in higher speeds on the highway. I wonder if there is a different dealer I could use here in Mississauga which has good reputation for PTU repairs.
Your best bet is probably to simply pull the rear drive clutch fuse at all times other than when you actually need AWD traction.
It is likely that the PTU lubricating oil is boiling, compromising the seal, due to the PTU heating level from operating in AWD mode. The Mazda CX-7 uses engine coolant to cool the PTU in order to avoid this very problem.
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This post really peaked my interest. How is it dangerous to have snow chains on the front but not the rear in an AWD vehicle? The vehicle automatically senses what tires are losing traction, which need power, which need braking, etc etc. Reading the rest of your post, it seems you're taking tidbits of information about a full four wheel drive and trying to apply it to an AWD. The two systems are not the same at all. Yes, if you engage a 4wd and get traction on all four tires while turning you can do some serious damage. But this is the beauty of AWD, that rule does not apply.
It's an interesting argument you propose.. but doesn't really make any sense when you consider how AWD operates.
"...consider how AWD operates...."
Which AWD type..? Base FWD therefore F/awd, or base RWD therefore R/awd..?
And even beyond that, there are a myriad of F/awd and R/awd designs out there in teh marketplace today.
But think of why truckers are always required to have rear drag chains on the rear most axle of their trailers....
So if you MUST use tire chains they should always go on the REAR first. So if you have a FWD or F/awd vehicle then for safties sake you should NEVER have tire chains ONLY on the front.
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EcoBoost, TWINFORCE = horribly poor FE 99% of the time in return for STELLAR 0-60 times.
Turbo lag is lowered by exhausting some of the energy of combustion into the exhaust manifold to spool the turbine up more quickly. Eliminate the turbo and raise the compression ratio to a level cognizant with DFI, ~12:1, and get good FE 99% of the time.
Even better....
Adopt Toyota's new e/VVT-i technique to shift the engine mode between Otto mode and Atkinson mode. ~15:1 CR for low to moderate throttle openings but ~12:1 (DFI) for WOT.
Or even better...
West/Otto/Atkinson/Miller multi-mode engine using e/VVT-i along with a variable volume (Toyota's HSD CVT/PSD) positive displacement SuperCharger to eliminate the throttle plate and provide BOOST ONLY at WOT.
West/Otto/Atkinson/Miller Multimode....15:1 CR (Otto) >>> 15:1 CR (Atkinson, 13:1 effective) >>>/10:1 CR (Miller, 15-18:1 effective {full BOOST}).
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Google for:
wwest hesitation abolition -dfg
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It will not be available anytime close to September.
Given the absolutely HORRID (in comparison) FE the TwinForce ("EcoBoost") engines are running I suspect Ford might be busy retooling their thinking on this. A 4 cylinder engine, even or especially with DFI, will be somewhat short on HP/Torque to begin with, now detune/derate it to accommodate the turbo and it will simply not be appropreate for anything larger/heavier than the old Pinto SW.
On the other hand anormally aspirated 4 cylinder with DFI (12:1 CR) would likely yeild STELLAR FE along with quite reasonable HP/torque for the Edge.
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Beerchug,
Thx for the response. I HAVE had the Edge in the shop 4 times. On the 3rd time they had the car for 3 1/2 weeks. A code diagnosis by Ford told them to change the ABS unit. The dealer told me that this could have something to do with the hesitation or lag. Upon return of the vehicle, the problem appeared to be slightly better at lower speeds but still absolutely terrible from 45-60. It did feel like the transmission shift points were tweaked a bit. So the 4th time I took it to another dealer for a fresh face to look at it without much luck. Mostly hearing from both dealers: its common for Edge's to do that, we noticed it but it really is not that bad, the service manager told me that he has an Edge and it does that too. Well it is bad and a very irritating problem. I only have 3000 miles on the car. I am going to file a Lemon Law claim because I cant drive this way for several years.
And the REAL answer is...
Real time control of the ATF line pressure.
In most modern day vehicles the ATF line pressure is "relaxed" allowed to decline to a fairly low level, pressure only as needed and only at a level currently required.
When a shift is required, especially a quick return to acceleration just after an upshift due to entering cruise mode, the engine will be held at idle until the variable displacement ATF pressure pump can be moved to a high volume (HIGH pressure) position, and line pressure can build up to the higer level required to provide the downshift AND hold the downshift clutches TIGHTLY.
Think of the old constant volume power stearing pump, horrible waste of fuel to pump VOLUMES of fluid pressurized to 3000PSI only to dump it back into the sump. The new ATF variable displacement pump with real time pressure control system only pumps the volume of fluid required of the moment and has no method of predicting the future.
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Wow. Yours must have been built on a Friday. What a hassle for you. I hope they get it right this time.
"...built on a Friday.."
No, the entire R/awd system was commited to final design on a "Friday".
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How, without real world results, can something be called a gas guzzler? You can toss compression ratios and other statistics but until driving habits blend with function its just going to be a crap shoot as to how good or how bad it will be.
I have a Twin Scroll Turbo on 1.8L motor. I get well over 33 MPG on the highway in cruise non giddyup mode. Now flog that same car and I get closer to 22. Build technology has nothing to do with my results. So lets see what real world results say. Just like the GMC Terrain supposedly gets 32, but you look at real world and its no where near.
You remove the Liters to get economy back. You FI the vehicle to get the HP and "peppiness" feel to it. There is no "right" way
I think a FI diesel would be a great idea. Get the torque down low and then boost when you need that upper HP. But for some reason the US doesnt seem to be geared to accepting diesel *shrug*
"..I have a Twin Scroll Turbo on a 1.8L motor.."
But did you lower the 1.8L engine's static/native compression ratio in order to take the most advantage of the turbo BOOST..??
The static/native compression ratio for a DFI engine should be in the range of 12:1 for optimal crusing FE.
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I did a little test today. While it was still at 2000 rpm, I turned OD off and it down shifted. I would think that indicates it was in 6th.
"..it down shifted.."
Maybe...or maybe not.
You may have just simply released the lock-up clutch.
In the name of improved FE the "OD" lockup clutch is now being used in gear ratios below the actual OD gear ratios. In addition to that some of the new 6(9) speeds, when coupled with a "strong" V6, have 2 OD gear ratios.
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wwest has F/awd phobia. His claim that a RWD car will outperform an awd edge is ludicrous. I can attest to the fact that it is nearly impossible to get an AWD edge to lose traction in any winter driving conditions available in the last two winters (two of the snowiest on record) here in Iowa.
"...nearly impossible..."
And that spells the difference. Loss of traction on the drive wheels of a RWD vehicle leaves the driver in "control", whereas with FWD or F/awd......
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wwest has F/awd phobia. His claim that a RWD car will outperform an awd edge is ludicrous. I can attest to the fact that it is nearly impossible to get an AWD edge to lose traction in any winter driving conditions available in the last two winters (two of the snowiest on record) here in Iowa.
Our DD is an '01 F/awd RX300. Prior to that was a '00 F/awd RX300, before that a '92 Jeep Cherokee Limited AWD/4WD/4X4 and before that was an '85 Jeep Cherokee Limited. The '92 Jeep is still doing stellar duty on a north central MT cattle and wheat ranch.
The '01 F/awd RX300 has wheel spacers so that rear tire chains can be fitted first and then the fronts added if/when needed. Otherwise it runs all year around on nice and quiet, comfortably riding, Bridgestone Turanza summer tread tires.
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The AWD Edge is the best car to handle snow and ice. We live in Canada and we drive in the snow every day right now. I never had slip or problem stopping with this car, I think a chains are little overkill.
"..best car to handle.."
Not by a country mile...!!
Almost ANY R/awd vehicle or even a simple RWD wil outperfrom the F/awd Edge. If you must buy a F/awd then the Acura/Honda SH-AWD is the best of the best by a very wide margin.
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ummm...what?
It can be extremely HAZARDOUS to drive a vehicle with higher traction on the front vs the rear, moreso a FWD or F/awd. For instance NO tire shop will accept the liability of mounting winter specialty tires on the front without at least equal on the rear. If you can manually engage the rear drive you could probably get by with chains only on the rear, PROVIDED you do not leave the rear drive engaged for any distance on a highly tractive roadbed.
But be sure and check that you can safely mount tire chains on the rear as many FWD vehicle manufacturers do not provide enough clearance at the rear.
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You're right that it is usually the high beams that are used for DRLs, but on many of tofay's projector lamp designs, the high and low are the same thing. From the 2008 Edge service manual:
"When the DRL is active, the SJB provides a pulse-width modulated (PWM) voltage to the low beam headlamps. This illuminates the headlamps at a reduced intensity."
DRLs aren't trying to "throw" light forward, the point isn't to send light in front, it's to illuminate the source.
In the 20 years since Canada implemented the DRL law, I've never seen any car that turned on the street/parking/tail/marker lights. The law says headlamps only are required.
"..high and low are the same thing.."
Yes, the new bi-xenon and/or /projector type headlights have a solenoid operated shutter that puts them in HB mode. I would imagine the solenoid is put in HB mode for DRL operation.
When I bought my used '99 911/996 of canadian shipping origin I was told that DRLs including street/parking/etc were required.
Anyway I thought it a good idea so I have retrofitted all my cars...
"throw", illuminate, whatever turns your crank....
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Hi Tribby. :D To answer your questions:
Yes, it is a simple programming change to enable/disable the DRL's. The Dealer does it through the Exterior Lighting menu in the diagnostic system.
Yes, in the case of the Edge the low beams run at reduced output (some vehicles use the high beams, fog light or parking lights). Rest of lights off.
Cost will vary according to Dealer. Some will do it for free if you purchased there. Others I have heard charge up to 1 hour labor/diagnostic time. It is a 15-20 minute job.
They are not enabled by default in the U.S. because they are not required (they are required by law in Canada) and many people do not like them/do not want them. Therefore, if a customer wants them they can ask to have them enabled. If a customer asks when purchasing, most Dealers will do it for free.
Not taking a side, just providing the information.
Good luck. :beerchug:
"..low beams run..."
Are you sure of this..? The object of DRLs is to have an oncoming car more readily seen at a distance, in marginal lighting situations such as at dusk or dawn. Since it is the high beams that have distance light "throw" it would seem unusual, wrong, to use the lows. The Canadian version also requires street/parking/tail/marker lights also be illuminated.
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Please explain how a 2.0L 4-cyl, with a non-loaded turbo, is going to burn more fuel than a 3.5L or even a 3.0L V6 in cruise mode? In fact the point of Ecoboost (and even TwinForce) is exactly the opposite, the point is to NOT sacrifice cruise mode FE for acceleration HP.
1.3L atkinson cycle engines may be the future, but it's a long way off. Getting them to work in a small hybrid that has an electric motor to smooth the torque and improve the response is one thing, getting it to be driveable in a vehicle with a GCWR of over 8000lbs is quite another.
In cruise mode the EcoBoost engine "wants" to be 2.0L, not the 3.5L it can "become" at WOT. The "standard" compression ratio for a DFI engine is ~12:1 not the derated level Ford uses in order to accommodate, EFFICIENTLY accommodate, the intercooler boost.
The idea is that the 1.3L Tri-Modal engine would only remain in Atkinson mode for moderate throttle openings, moderate engine loading. With low loading it would be in standard Otto mode, 15:1 CR. Only at WOT would the Miller cycle be used, the SC providing BOOST. The newest Toyota HSD already uses the Otto to Atkinson transition technique, no doubt soon to be adopted by Ford's line of Hybrids. And Mazda has already proven the viability of teh Miller cycle for automotive use.
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There you go again, making assumptions. The 2.0L Ecoboost is a SINGLE turbo, not TWIN turbo. It gets the fuel economy of a naturally aspirated 2.0 with the power of a 3.0L V6 (230+ hp). The Edge and Explorer are pretty heavy - anything less than 230 hp would not be very competitive and probably wouldn't be that much more fuel efficient either.
Prior to adopting the EcoBoost term for marketing these gas-guzzlers TwinForce was being used. I presume to connotate DFI and Turbo combination = TwinForce.
A naturally aspirated 2.0L with DFI would have a more fuel efficient 12:1 static compression ratio. In order to accommodate the CR resulting from intercooled turbo boost the static compression ratio must be lowered below the DFI "standard" thereby sacrificing FE in cruise mode.
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We got about 2 inches of fresh snow yesterday afternoon, so i decided it was time for my 15 year old daughter to learn about driving in snow. We went to a large empty parking lot. I had her driving around in a large circle and kept telling her to goose the throttle in an attempt to induce a skid (the car is a 2008 Limited with AWD). Until we turned the traction control off, we really couldn't get the back end to step out. Once we turned the traction control off, it was no problem getting the back to swing out. My daughter could then experience what she needed to do to correct a skid. A little counter steering, and she was able to get things back under control. It was a pretty valuable lesson for her, and a pretty amazing demonstration of the value of the awd traction control system for me. I was very impressed both with my daughter and the car.
I suspect it would have been Ford's stability control fucntionality that prevented the back end from "stepping out".
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Ford to show of 2.0L EcoBoost in 2011 Edge
Ford Edge Forum - Next week, Ford Motor Co. will unveil the 2011 Ford Edge at the Chicago Auto Show -- its latest product freshening and the first to feature a new, four-cylinder version of its fuel-saving EcoBoost engine.
The latest version of Ford's popular midsize crossover also will be the first to feature the company's new MyFord Touch system, which replaces most of the traditional analog gauges, switches and knobs with full-color computer screens and touch-sensitive buttons.
The body of the Edge is new from the windshield forward, but the biggest change is under the hood. In addition to the current 3.5-liter V-6, the 2011 model will offer a 2.0-liter four-cylinder EcoBoost that delivers the same power as a 3.0-liter V-6 with significantly better fuel economy, according to sources familiar with Ford's plans.
"....fuel-saving EcoBoost engine..."
GAS-GUZZLING TwinForce engine would be the more proper term.
Sacrificing cruise mode FE for acceleration HP is a bit bass-ackwards IMMHO.
Reduce that engine to an effective 1.3L using the Atkinson cycle and add a SuperCharger to bring the performance, HP/torque, back up to the 2.0 BOOSTED level.
Even better yet, use Toyota's newest HSD e/VVT-i technique to run the engine in base Otto mode, 15:1 compression ratio and then use e/VVT-i to incrementally reduce the CR as boost rises.
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+1
Some provinces in Canada have made winter tires MANDATORY.
Austria has a similar law for vehicles over a certain weight.
I guess wwest knows something they don't. :rolleyes:
If I still lived in MT I'd probably be on the side of winter specialty tires, as I was then. But absent living in the that level of wintertime weather I'll go with summer tires and use tire chains at the reasonably rare times of need.
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I'm not sure I see any point to the links other than verifying my point. Winter specialty tires come out ahead on snow, UNPACKED snow. Summer use only tires come out ahead otherwise. Since that venue wasn't tested, maybe even on ice and packed snow.
ANOTHER ACCELLERATOR RESPONSE QUESTION
in Mods & Tech
Posted
And Ford's answer was/is...??