Lex Talionis

wow... so the privacy glass was not dark enough all around.. you also paid to tint on top of that? I plan to do the driver and passenger, but not spend the extra cash to tint what is already privacy... especially with a black leather interior. so, that is why I am trying to find exactly what he privacy tint is so it can be matched.

yes yes.. of course I had always planned to ask the dealer. you think I am not getting it but I am. much of this did not come to light until well after they closed last night. BUT what I am trying to do is have correct information so I can try to deal with the dealer with full information and not just pulling it out of the air when I do ask him - which I will do of course. For example, so you understand why I am asking and looking for verifiable proof, if the last known increase was 6/6/07 and the dealer did not inform me of a price increase prior to ordering despite having talked 3 times in person, I have a leg to stand on to negotiate. Also for example, if the price increase did happen and it happened just yesterday the day I ordered, then maybe I also have a leg to stand on to negotiate that $335 increase. the more I know, the more informed I am, the better my negotiation versus just walking in and saying "I heard that maybe possibly there could have maybe been a possible increase." No, I want to walk in and say, "I see that on xxx a new increase went into effect that I was not informed was coming and not told about during the 3 occasions over 2 weeks I looked at this car." feel me??

still not 100% sure on that as in the other post he says "Price level 815 which was effective 6/6/07 shows the BAMR at $1395. I don't have the latest prices but I can surmise that the base price went up and the BAMR increased by $100." so it still seems like a guess (surmise) and not official and no official date of when it went in effect if that is in fact the case.

is there a definitive way to determine if in fact there was a price increase in both the base price and the vista roof price rather than just guessing that is the issue? there must be some way to find out if that is the story so this can be put to rest for me?

your right.. I am 100% going crazy as things do not line up with what I see on the web or other literature - I just do not want to get taken for a ride as I have once before and vowed to never have it happen again your right.. it could be my error... but I am a pretty anal guy (obviously) your right... we could do this back and forth 4ever at this rate your right.... I will scan and send my VOC so you can maybe find where my error is as several things (from the vista roof oddity to the claimed base level invoice price versus this invoice price is as all the items you will see match up perfect with the invoice price but the vista roof and the national base price???)

On my Vehicle Order Confirmation printout it has the retail price for every item I added next to the X-Plan price. Each lines up to be about 85% of retail. BUT, on the Ford website, the side of every Edge, in their print literature at the dealer it shows the Panoramic roof (43p) as 1395 retail. My X-Plan invoice lines up with every single retail price in all those above mentioned places on all items I added BUT on the roof. My X-Plan shows the retail as 1495. How is this possible when published price is 1395 everywhere?? Why is this 1 item changed? is it possible for a dealer to do this on the down-low?

something seems off here then... If that VIN has an X-Plan of 33,924 AND it has the expensive tow package... my X-plan with NO tow package is 33,875... just $49 cheaper for me?? not possible. Plus, I have that odd $100 extra on the panoramic roof retail cost.... does that vin show what the DLR INV is on that roof? Mine says RETAIL of 1495 and DLR INV of 1271.

No price out the door paperwork.. but from what he said it would be that VOC + tax, title, license (about 9% he says) and - any incentives, which we know will likely change to some degree in 6-8 weeks. Closest I could find for similar rig (which is pretty much same as mine but camel leather versus my black and a 395$ tow package I did not order versus my 489$ credit for the wheels I did not want) so should give me good idea if correct.... 2FMDK39C38BA40959 Encinitas Ford Encinitas CA 92024 BTW, 1 thing I did notice that I found odd was that on every option the "Retail" price lines up with exactly what is on the web and every other piece of literature EXCEPT 1 item. In my invoice it shows the Panoramic Roof (43p) as 1495 while it is listed everywhere else as 1395 - including the above cars VIN and the web and brochures... what is up with that?

All seems good then by what you explain. If VOC means Vehicle Order Confirmation - as I said I DO have this in my hands. So, it seems I am good there as I have this. When the car arrives in 6-8 weeks I need to also get the "Factory Invoice" and match with the VOC I have already. I understand that. A cross check that should be done as it is also a requirement on their end to provide. Will do. My only 3 real questions then are: (1) when looking at my VOC is there a way they can pull shenanigans on me and inflate it in some way an unsavy guy would not know? (2) on my VOC are the itemized additional FDAF and DEST & DELIV prices, but I see no DOC FEE, so when you say that "The X-Plan price already includes all fees (including the FDAF, Dest, Delivery, etc, etc.)." does that mean they added them 2 times - 1 built into the x-plan and 1 in the itemized list or did they just itemize them for me? (3) did I do a wise and good move by getting and going the X-Plan route or could I have done better on my own straight negotiating? I am under the impression the X-Plan was the way to go, but not 100% sure... BTW.. thanks a ton for all the help. I am not as helpless as I may seem, just not been through all of this in years and the last time I was a kid and just winged it on the spot (and paid dearly for it I came to find out).

that was the fleet guys assessment also. 'could' 'maybe' 'possibly' work in my favor by delaying to see how incentives change.

I do not recall a "Factory Invoice with the box labeled "X-Plan"" nor do I have a copy of the factory invoice. How do I know if they charged me extra fees? I see see here FDAF ASSESSMENT of $464 (I think is advertising), DEST and DELIV of $705, I have in my hands a 1 page paper that is entitled Vehicle Order Confirmation and shows things like RETAIL and DLR INV prices. It shows the RETAIL next to the DLR INV price and the code for each option. It says *this is not an invoice* and then shows TOTAL BASE AND OPTIONS with a RETAIL price and then the DLR INV price and then the price for A/Z PLAN, D PLAN, X PLAN. What should I do next then?

10-4 on mine also.. but then they say - to offset - but "we give you a full tank".. duh, like they are going to let me roll out the dealer having spent +30k on a car woth a quarter tank.

no dude... it means whether to take the cash, cash + APR, or straight APR incentive... jeez

read the thread and that will be apparent.... heck, even read the title and that would be apparent

Just did my order.. used an X-Plan for pricing (which I understand to be the best way to go versus just walk in negotiate). Cannot comment yet on what the final incentive options I had are (APR and rebates) as those that are available today cannot be used as you can only use what is available at the time the car comes. And that can be 6-8 weeks on an order. So, when it comes, we see the incentives then, I will report back and make the decision then

correct... that is what happened. got the wheels I wanted plus a price credit and they took the wheels I hated and will put them on another car and mark that price up.

UPDATE... here is how it all went down today, no more guessing... using X-Plan I ended up having to do the Limited as they just could NOT build the SEL with both the packages I wanted. Funny thing is, in the end, custom building an SEL and still not getting both packages was slightly more expensive ($100) than getting the Limited with both the packages I wanted. go figure. cheaper and I got the items I wanted. Now, as for the wheels... I ended up getting them to give me the SEL wheels I wanted AND with the new tires that will come with the Limited I ordered AND credit me the $489 difference for dropping from those chrome clad to the premium painted (which is an upgrade to me). So it is an '08 Edge Limited: FWD White Sand Black Leather Sync Premium Package Seating Flex Vista roof DVD Nav system Power lift-gate Cargo management Sirius SEL Premium Painted wheels versus Chrome Clad wheels

Here is what I just ordered today Jan 3... loaded '08 Edge Limited in CA FWD White Sand Black Leather Sync Premium Package Seating Flex Vista roof DVD Nav system Power lift-gate Cargo management Sirius the clock is ticking..... UPDATE: very next day - Jan 4 - I had a fax from the dealer showing Ford had received the order and issued the VIN number already

Here is what I just ordered... so hard to compare with others as some have this, some have that, some neither... X-Plan pricing in CA for a loaded '08 Edge Limited: FWD White Sand Black Leather Sync Premium Package Seating Flex Vista roof DVD Nav system Power lift-gate Cargo management Sirius PLUS.... I got them to do the wheels off the SEL I wanted and credit me the price back ($489) X-Plan Price (with wheel discount): $33386.21 + TTL of course - any rebates at the time which cannot be figured now until the vehicle comes in So.... how does this seem. I understand the X-Plan is pretty great place to be versus just walking in and negotiating... but does this seem like in? Any thoughts?

but look at the 2nd picture of Hands.. if he says it is 15% that is clearly lighter than than the rest of the car's privacy glass.

Technically, the question I posed was not about a discount... that was not raised until post #4 and not by me but by CorporateEdge. Second, look at the big picture which was my point.... which is.... I, you and the others here happen to be a very small % that do web research beyond what the salesman say. 99% of the people take the word of the salesman and the salesman is wrong in saying "you have a cell phone? then you can sync it to the sync system!" as it overstates the ability of the system... Additionally, the website that covers the phone compatibility is vague at best in saying things like, and I quote, "Most Bluetooth-enabled phones support hands-free calling through Sync". And, "Even if your Bluetooth-enabled mobile phone is not shown, it may still work with your Sync! Many existing mobile phones have not been tested yet and new ones are introduced frequently. If your phone is Bluetooth-enabled, it is likely to support Sync’s features. So if you don’t see your phone here, just stop by your dealer and test it with Sync." That is a bold statement when in fact the Treo is the, arguably, most ubiquitous PDA phone out there... and seems to have questionable success. What if I had bought the car based on the salesman's statement and grinning sales speech as he explained the greatest of the feature, only to find out my nor my spouses phone would work? I just got lucky I am anal and went and researched it and found out about this issue - most won't be so lucky.

"arbitrarily decided on $15,000." yup that is EXACTLY what I did... honestly. just seemed like a cash number I was ok with parting with. I appreciate your efforts, caveats and honesty... I know you have good intentoins and I understand we are pulling numbers and ideas from our just to make the point.. but it still helps a guy think more in depth about it. trust me, I will not come back and say, "but some guy named bbf2530 on some internet BBB I just started posting on told me I should do this and it would be okay" :D it already has me finding neat calculators on the web that answer this EAXCT question ( Which is better: a rebate or special dealer financing? ), it has me understanding a general zone on when it would be ideal to take the APR versus the cash.. it just has the juices flowing now and I have a better sense of how to approach the decision.

here is something kind of interesting.... look down to AUTO section http://www.fool.com/calcs/calculators.htm Which is better: a new or used vehicle? How much should depreciation cost me? Should I lease or purchase a vehicle? Should I finance or pay cash for a vehicle? How much will my vehicle payments be? Which vehicle loan is better? What term of vehicle loan should I choose? Should I use a home equity loan instead of an auto loan? Which is better: a rebate or special dealer financing? How long should I keep a vehicle? What vehicle can I afford?

I understand that aspect of money management no problem. that is simple math and understanding even for me.. it is just these APR versus cash back calls I am a little iffy on.. but I am better prepared now to make a decision. The one thing you did not enter into the above equation is the simple fact of having money/cash in the bank to turn to if happens... and believe me, it does when you least expect it. I know.. because it has. think about this.. using your above example of "Assuming an "out the door" price of $35,775 (I have to start somewhere) and a $15,000 down payment. Here are some figures: If you take the 3.9% and $500 - Your monthly payment would be $598. That would give you a total out of pocket in payments of $21,528 for 36 months. Add your $15,000 Down Payment and you paid a total of $36,558." now, in the end I will have paid a mere 783 more for the car versus just paying it off. To me.. have that extra 20k available cash 'just in case' is worth the $783 I paid extra to own that car over 3 years. to be honest, I could walk in and pay cash money and walk out. BUT, I feel like that leaves me a little thin for comfort to just toss that much cash down. no payment mind you and of course, very few of us with cash in a bank account get even close to 3.9% in interest. ha.. not these days. so, that also holds me back from just paying cash in one big whack... just trying to be prudent and the prudent move does not seem to pay cash for the entire rig but rather, cash and some loan. PLUS, I also have my VW I plan to private sell to get the max out of it and then roll that cash into the loan. But, it may take weeks to sell it. Last time I went to buy a car, the dealer offered 3500 for my olf Acura and I ended up private selling for 5500. Since my current car is paid off, I can afford to keep it and sell it for more than the dealer will give me.

I would like to build an SEL with all Limted options as I would get the wheels I want and I get the bonus of no chrome Beltline as it comes black on the SEL. That would be win win for me. BUT, I think that maybe the real outcome would be a Limited and try to finagle the dealer into 'down-grading' to the SEL wheels for me. I suspect bbf nailed it there..... salesman was suppose to call tonight about the truth of getting an SEL with both premium and seating flexibility package or maybe a Limited with SEL wheels... but no call. Hmmmm, I wonder if he is instructed that if the guy does not commit to buy by xxx time/interactions, stop contact with him and move on as he is likely a lame duck