boosted_st

1 minute ago, BillE said:

Thanks for your response. I will try to pay closer attention to determine exactly what my transmission is doing.  Weird thing,  the strange behavior is not noticeable in the automatic mode with normal or Sport ratio..  I have asked forum members who have been to the ST Experience if the instructors discussed or demonstrated using the manual S mode.  One person said there wasn't enough time.  I have also asked several members  who were scheduled for the experience to specifically ask their instructor to demonstrate manually shifting in the S-mode.  No responses.   Other ST owners must not be interested and just don't care.

You're welcome, I agree it's odd that more people haven't noticed this. However in the newest software update Ford has added LOTS of torque management to the shifts which has made the 2-3-4 shifting less noticeable (but I can still tell). I've wondered the exact same thing about the ST experience (I didn't get around to going) and if they used the vehicle in manual mode or not. I had the Explorer ST as an extended test drive over a weekend and put the transmissions through it's paces in every mode there is, the 10 speed is WAY better, Ford should have just used that in the Edge as well.

I have a few posts in this thread, and I think I even linked to a video that I did showing what I saw, you might be interested in checking that out.

On 10/14/2020 at 8:46 AM, BillE said:

 

I have made the following request, or a similar request, many times in the past few months, but have never received a response.   I am hoping that  you can respond to my request.  

I own a 2019 Edge ST that I purchased new in September of 2019.  I had the June transmission software update (TSB)  Flashed when it was first announced.  I noticed significant improvement in the normal and S automatic modes.  However, I still feel that an additional software update is required,  especially in the S mode when manually shifting using the paddles.   In the S mode, when shifting manually ( paddles) under moderate acceleration, I feel that my ST does not shift properly from 2nd to 3rd to 4th.  It almost seems like the transmission holds 3rd and then flares and sometimes bucks before going into 4th.

 

Could you (and possibly other ST owners from the forum) please try manually shifting (paddles) under moderate acceleration while in the S mode and report how your transmission  behaves.  I would like to know if my ST is like all the other STs, or if it has a transmission problem. Perhaps the June update was not flashed correctly?  Thank you.

Do you notice the flare when going from 2nd to 3rd, and then a delay when shifting from 3rd to 4th? That's one of the things I have always hated about this transmission in the car. Ford messed up the gearing and gears 2 & 3 are almost identical, at redline there is maybe a 300RPM difference which causes all sorts of shifting problems in this thing. Because of this and other issues I had my transmissions replaced in Jan of this year (2020) and the new transmission is actually worse. I gave up going to the dealer for the transmission after it was replaced and just figured I was stuck with it. Well more and more has continued to go wrong with this Edge ST and I'm in the process of Ford re-purchasing the vehicle. It's been approved and I am just waiting on how much I will be getting. I've test drove the Explorer ST and the transmission is FAR better (it works) and might end up in  one if Ford doesn't try to screw me on the repurchase.

1 hour ago, Gadgetjq said:

Well, that's interesting.  You got to that menu how?

 

Before starting the vehicle press and hold the OK on the left, start the vehicle and keep OK pressed until the menu is displayed (should be around 5 seconds or so). The downside is that you can't get out of the menu or to any of the normal menu's until you turn the car off and back on.

I finally remembered to try if getting into the Test/Diag menu worked the same as my Focus ST did and it does. I was really hopping to find what gear was being used, but that wasn't available. I did find a screen that shows the speed and RPM as a digital readout though (attached photo). Since I was able to now see the number for the RPM I did a quick test around 35 mph on the way home looking at the difference between 2nd and 3rd and using this I could see a small drop in RPM. So maybe there really is no problem and it's just a poorly designed gear ratio setup (some may disagree, but 3rd gear is useless and shouldn't exist).

1 minute ago, Perblue said:

 

That's unfortunate they are being like that. I actually don't like ford personally honestly, but we bought our first edge used because it fit our budget and needs. We bought our ST because of how they looked after problems we had with the first one and they've been consistent with this one. By far the best dealership I've dealt with otherwise I would have seriously considered other options.

I can say at this point I will never buy Ford again, and will discourage anyone from doing so as well after this. The only other vehicle I was really looking at would be the Audi SQ5, and with the options I would want, it would have been about 20K more than this was. 

23 minutes ago, Perblue said:

 

This is ignoring an earlier post I made stating I see a drop of around 400 rpms, so is not normal. I'm not able to make a video with no way yo mount a camera or phone and I'm not willing to risk holding my phone with our $500 fine and instant loss of license for distracted driving. So sorry I'm of no more help to you.

Sorry if that's what it seemed like I was going for, it wasn't. I understand not wanting to take the risk of holding a phone. The dealerships just don't care what I tell them about others not having this issue (told them this after your post) and just revert to "if the computer doesn't show an issue, then tough luck". I have wasted so much time dealing with this where I instantly get annoyed the moment I get in the car. And Ford's attitude toward it all is "who cares, you are one person". 

On 1/15/2020 at 1:23 PM, Perblue said:

Pretty much. I can't figure out why they decided to do 2nd and 3rd so close other than maybe towing. Even then though they could have opened it up another .2 or .3 and it would have been fine I'm sure. Heh maybe it was to save space inside the transmission and/or they use 2nd or 3rd with a reduction gear in order make one of the overdrive gears, since transmissions don't truly have 8-10 individual gears internally.

If everyone has the same as I do which they are stating is "normal" where there is no RPM drop from 2nd to 3rd it wouldn't even make sense for towing. It's basically 3rd is a useless gear that only causes a really poor 2nd to 4th transition at that point. I've wondered if a transmission shop could do anything about it (changing it maybe), but again, I shouldn't HAVE to do that after spending 50K either. I fully regret buying this vehicle that I am stuck with until I am "ok" with taking a hit financially to get rid of it.

I found another calculator online Engine RPM Calc and with a tire diameter of 29.3" (265/40 R21)

RPM     Gear     MPH     Ratio

4898     2nd       40         3.15
4462     3rd        40         2.87

2861     4th        40         1.84

2192     5th        40         1.41

1555     6th        40         1.00

This to me would make more sense and would fall in line with what everyone else is seeing as "normal", even the 3 - 4 difference seems about right from what I have seen (my opinion is they could have done this better). 6th seems about right too, lots of surface streets here are 40 mph so I'm doing the speed all the time. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

47 minutes ago, MENINBLK said:

There are only TWO overdrive gears, 7th and 8th.

6th gear is 1:1.

If 4th gear is an overdrive gear, then so is REVERSE !!!

 

Transmission specs are here on page 2.

ST 8 speed transmission has a different gear set.

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North America/US/product/2019/edge/2019-edge.pdf

 

 

They don't even know the definition of an overdrive gear.

 

Pete...

I'm with ya, I have another appointment with a different dealership tomorrow morning now. Thank you for posting the tech spec sheet! I've been trying to locate that without success.

3 hours ago, Fingernip said:

Did they mention anything at all about the bucking? It should never buck when changing gears and there is no excuse for it. Did you get a service report with detailed description of the trouble shooting methods? It would also have the customer complaint spelled out.. if it is not exactly what you told them you need to complain to Ford. Definetly try another dealership though... they are talking completely out of their butts... "4th gear is an overdrive gear....." 5th is 1:1. By no definition is 4th an overdrive gear in the 8F57.

Nope, the reports have never been detailed with what they actually did which really makes me wonder what was done to test anything. I have a case open with Ford Customer Care (Is there a better one?). Even though I have heard bad things about other dealers, I'll give that a shot and see how it goes. I just really don't want to waste more of my time dealing with this. Pretty sure the vehicle has been at the dealer 5+ weeks since I bought it at the end of August 2019.

3 hours ago, Jombi said:

" 4th is considered an overdrive gear"

Yes this is a bizarre statement coming from a dealer who should know.  It may be an "extra" gear (compared to the previous 6-speed) but overdrive is only 7 & 8 in the 8F57; OD is by definition a ratio of less than 1.0: 1.   

You both make really good points about what overdrive really is and that makes sense. I've never looked into that but this "OD is by definition a ratio of less than 1.0: 1." totally makes sense to me and means their transmission specialist is talking out of his ass.

11 hours ago, MENINBLK said:

 

Go tell them that 'THE COMPUTER' is only as smart as the ASS that programmed it, and they are JUST AS BIG AN ASS for believing THE COMPUTER...

There are plenty of things that can go wrong that are NOT tied to a sensor that alarms the computer.

 

How did they diagnose problems PRIOR to computers ?

Did they forget how to properly diagnose a transmission problem ?

I bet if you were to take it to a transmission shop, you would get back a report of all the problems it has.

 

Pete...

I did, I all but said their techs are idiots and monkeys if all they can do is fix something if the computer says there is an issue. Dealer techs seem like level 1 support people now, if there isn't a defined process to fix a well known problem they are useless.

I have thought about going to a transmission shop, but I really don't want to spend money diagnosing a car I just paid over 50K for either. Ford needs to get their 5h1t together!

On 1/9/2020 at 5:14 PM, Perblue said:

I didn't try it accelerating hard but just playing with the paddle shifters in drive I get no harsh shift or anything, rpms drop roughly 400 rpms, which looks to be expected going by the gear ratios. It stays in 3rd with no issues. Streets are full of ice and snow so I can't copy exactly what you do. Not sure what to tell you other than are you sure your dealer dowloaded the latest tsb flash and isn't using just the last one he downloaded? As the one I had applied from the latest tsb was a huge improvement and even paddle shifts in drive seem quite quick and

Thanks for the info... if someone could make a video it might give me more ammunition. I got the vehicle back today and just as I expected, NO fix for the transmission and they claim it's working right because the computer says so. ?

My vehicle is still at the dealer (tomorrow will be a week now again). Has anyone been able to confirm that their transmission behaves different than mine does? If the gear ratios posted are accurate, and the calculator I found too, then we should all be seeing the same behavior with 2nd and 3rd gear.

before I call the dealer to find out what is going on with my vehicle, can someone confirm that they see a different behavior when using the paddle shifters? From the calculations I did yesterday, it seems Ford f'd up on the gearing of the transmission and maybe what I am seeing is "normal" (if it is, the person responsible for this transmissions should be fired). 

20 minutes ago, Jombi said:

Possbiley for towing heavy stuff around town one might want to have 2nd and 3rd that close...I think most of us are in drag-race mindset so that's why it seems unneeded.  It would be nice if Forscan or the tuners (Livernois, etc) could just eliminate a gear via software.

I agree, the current programming seems to get confused as to what gear it should really be using because of this and that might be the whole problem that I am seeing. I still can't believe this is how they decided to build this and put it into production! This has caused hesitation when shifting as I am crossing lanes of traffic leaving where I live and it's really unsettling. 

On 3/26/2019 at 3:31 AM, omar302 said:

 

PCM is the "Powertrain Control Module", basically the computer controlling the Engine & Transmission which has a software, this software is what is updated (and tuned in aftermarket tuners) just like how phones' software is updated. Reading all these issues with the ST's 8-speed, it seems the concern is with the 2-3 shift, also noteworthy is that the 2nd gear is one of the two added gears compared to the previous transmission in the Sport. The second added gear is the 8th, a 2nd overdrive ratio. So the issue could be as simple as software related for how it deals with the extra ratios (compared to the old 6-speed unit) or hardware with the new components they added to convert the 6-speed to a 8-speed.

 

I found a calculator online (if it's accurate) that pretty much says either 2nd or 3rd gear really isn't needed according to these ratios. And this is exactly what I am seeing. If this is accurate it's hugely stupid to have 2 gears so close that the programming always skips one! The attached image shows the results for gears 1 - 6. I feel as though this really makes it a 7 speed not 8 if there is a useless gear.

2 hours ago, onyxbfly said:

I know that I am stating the obvious when I say this, but I'd strongly suggest going to a different dealership!  Hopefully you have one that is relatively painless to get too.  There are 3 high volume dealerships in my immediate area. Unfortunately I have to leave the state to go to my preferred dealer

This has crossed my mind a few times as there are multiple dealerships around here, but the one I bought the car from and have been going to has the highest satisfaction rating.

2 hours ago, Jombi said:

I would also try as someone else mentioned earlier to contact a Ford corporate regional rep.   The dealerships do have different priorities than the corporation; the dealer has made their sale, but the corporate rep will care more about reputation and the social media noise you can make. 

 

So it's likely they will at least listen, and when confronted with the obvious truth they should help make this right.  I always thought that the dealer loses nothing on warranty work so I'm not sure what their motivation would be to refuse it.  Maybe they just make less money on it because they're paid some flat fee through corporate, I don't know how that works. 

 

But it just seems odd because it's not coming out of the Dealer's pocket to fix a warranty item, so I don't know why there's pushback, maybe someone else has more insight into this.

I've contacted Ford Customer Care again today (2nd time now) and should have the regional manager calling me tomorrow. From what the advisor told me Ford doesn't pay the dealer for any fixes they do which they can't find a problem in the parts that are returned (not sure if this really holds water).

Would anyone be able to do a video like I did using the paddle shifters to run 1st - 5th gears that I could show them how it SHOULD work? If someone could do this I'd really appreciate it. 

I requested an update from the dealership and as I thought... it's BS and they aren't going to fix anything... I'm so over this crap and 100% regret buying this dang vehicle.

"The tech got back with me and Charlie, he stated he is able to monitor 3rd gear is engaging, the reason it's in such high RPM compared to 4th, is 4th is considered an overdrive gear. At this point, there is no problem."

My Response:

"If other owners don't see the same behavior that can't be correct, especially when 3rd is never actually used. And 2nd and 3rd having identical rpms doesn't make sense either. No difference between 2nd and 3rd IS an issue."

This will be the last Ford I ever own and will tell anyone and everyone to steer clear of Ford as well. This is beyond ridiculous now.

14 hours ago, TomCinMI said:

 

Please do so, whatever they say/do, thanks.

I'll be sure to post whatever ends up happening.

I brought my vehicle to the dealer yet again last Friday and gave them the info about the TC. I have little faith that it will get fixed, however if it does I'll be sure to post what was done.

2 hours ago, Fingernip said:

I was getting a violent buck when it was going into 3rd. It would last a second or 2 and would happen most often when under light throttle. Turned out to be a TC lockup issue and solution was a new TC. Have the dealer disable TC lockup and test drive to see if it still happens. 

When I get the car back to the dealer I'll suggest that this is done. Any idea if this is something that could be done via the tune and I could test this via LMS before getting back to the dealer?

6 hours ago, jamie1073 said:

 

Transmission Fluid is Oil, Oil gets thicker when cold, cold oil does not flow easily.  It is totally normal for any Automatic trans to shift harder/harsher when cold.  I have been driving for over 30 years and never had one that shifted smooth as glass cold, not even a Benz.  This trans cold shifts just fine cold as long as you are not driving briskly, which you should not be doing on a cold trans anyway.  If I get on it to much then yeah I get a harsh shift when cold but if I accelerate normally it is fine. 

Your right about the fluid being thicker when cold, the real problem for me is the issue with not using 3rd gear and when cold that problem is exaggerated and the car actually bucks when it should use 3rd but skips it to go to 4th. Because of the issue I have, light/normal throttle actually makes it even worse when cold. I appear to be just very unlucky and have gotten a f'ed up transmission which gives me a tainted perception.

I'm in Northern Cali right now for the holidays and it's decently chilly in the mornings, the shifting for this transmissions when it's cold is horrendous! Maybe there is more wrong with the transmission in my vehicle than I think, but I have never had a transmission shift this poorly when cold. 

1 minute ago, Sage said:

^^^^Hopefully you will get an answer soon^^^^

I hope so too, but it will at least take a few weeks since I couldn't let them keep my vehicle since I am driving out of town for the next 2 weeks and needed my vehicle. Hopefully they can at least get Ford to start looking at what could be going on though.