kapk22

Okay , then I will have them check the fuel pressure Monday. And hold off on the sensor.

This is very helpful. Thank you. Looks like there’s just the one to replace. I am thinking I may be able to swap that out, since I was able to get those plugs done. Lot different than my old in-line six on the 1990 Jeep Wrangler

they quoted $700+ to replace the pump.

Shop is going to look at it next Monday, no additional diagnostics fee. They waited $260 to replace the crankshaft position sensor. But they said it’s uncommon for them to go out. I’m totally confused as to where the crankshaft position sensor is.

Yeah, someone mentioned this. I don’t know how to get to it. Unless it’s inside the tank, with the pump.

The car did the long crank three times yesterday. I’m getting sick of this thing.

I did not take a picture of them. They were definitely gapped substantially more than the new iridium NGKs. The side/ground electrode on all of them were noticeably bent upward and a couple had cracks around the base area, near the threads. They also appeared charred, kind of a whitish gray, leading me to believe the engine was running lean. This makes sense, as one of the initial codes months back indicated so. The bottom portion, or “center electrode” also appeared to be somewhat disintegrated on them, if that makes sense. she drove the car today and it did not have a long crank any of the times she started it. I asked her to describe the difference between how the car started before and after the new plugs. She said, “there’s no hesitation, it’s like a 19-20 year old getting up off the couch vs a 60-70 year old”. ? I asked her if there was any change in the way it drove, specifically how it idled or accelerated and she said no. I am thinking, we will wait a week or week and a half to see if the long crank comes back. If it doesn’t, great. If it does, then we are on to the last two or three possibilities. Camshaft position sensors, fuel pump/fuel filter. Thank you again for taking the time to respond/help.

we took the car in to the “mechanic” last week and they were able to replicate the issue. They told us they were confident it was spark plug related, after the mechanic found one of them with a gap of 100. They said the standard gap for the plugs is 60 and believed the “spark was bouncing around, causing the computer to be confused”. while doing their “diagnostics” the mechanic cleaned the throttle body and the initial charge for diagnostics/trouble shooting was $120. They told me replacement plugs cost $18.99. I asked what the total cost would be for them to swap the new plugs and they said $500 and some change. This included the initial $120. i got off the phone and called a local parts store who had the recommended iridium plugs for $8.99 each. After watching several videos and approximately four hours, I completed the mission last night. The existing plugs appeared to be the ones that came from the factory 120k miles ago. They were a bi!$h to get out and two were actually cracked. When I started the car for the first time, I noticed it turned over a bit long. The crank was not as long as it had been previously, however, it was not normal (still). Angela drive the car today and said it did not do the long crank thing at all. She also said it seemed to be running noticeably “smoother” than before. I cannot say it ever really ran rough, or with any kind of noticeable miss before. I initially found it hard to believe spark plugs could be causing the long crank issue. However, I am also not a mechanic, and I really don’t have much knowledge when it comes to the computers in the newer vehicles. we plan on giving it a week to see if it goes back to the long cranking. As I mentioned before, the car did not have the issue for almost a week after I replaced the battery. If it goes past a full week, it’s possible that they were right about the plugs. I am a little confused about the way it started the first turn though. as always, any thoughts/ideas, suggestions are appreciated. thanks everyone

That’s what I thought I saw on YouTube. With the fuel range changing (plus 70 miles) after putting the new battery and mass airflow sensor in, it kinda makes sense. If the pcm is re-learning, maybe a faulty camshaft position sensor keeps causing it to happen. Or the fuel pump, or fuel pump check valve… FML. I guess we shall see what the mechanic ends up finding. I will check the fuses today, just in case it’s a simple fix. Wouldn’t that be cool. Thanks again for the help.

78 miles no codes thrown are there two camshaft position sensors ?

wwwperfa_zn0w suggested the new camshaft position sensor previously. I haven’t ordered one yet. Torn between buying another part and waiting to have the shop check the fuel pressure and having the actual mechanic troubleshooting on the 26th.

Update, it didn’t do for almost an entire week and then did just now. So weird.

I’m glad you mentioned this. When the battery went down, I was confused at first. Then I remembered reading something about the brake pedal having something to do with the original issue. I couldn’t find anything on it. Thanks for the help again. I will check on these next.

well, I ended up pouring a bottle of Berryman B12 in the full gas tank and no changes. then, the battery died on us. We purchased it last year, so it was warrantied. My guess is, the battery gave up after having to turn over so much all the time. at the same time I replaced the battery, I swapped the new mass airflow sensor in. First time I turned it over, it cranked a few times and then started. Angela told me it had never done this before, it only cranked a while and stopped on its own. the next few days the car did the long crank as usual. Then, today,, she noticed the fuel range went seventy miles up when she filled the tank. She also has not had the long crank happen. my question now is, could it be possible that the new mass airflow sensor is the fix and the computer had to adjust? the gained mileage would make sense, as it was likely running lean. crossing our fingers.

Correct. No codes. That’s why the dealership said they couldn’t find anything. they said they had it on their diagnostics computer and “checked all systems”. they also said they could not do the “smoke test” because the car is a 2010 and did not have the “port” for them to plug it in. This is why I chose to schedule an appointment for an actual mechanic to check the fuel pressure.

Might just order one of these guys too.. I am down to chasing parts. It’s the last thing I want to do, but I don’t know what else is left. I did read a post on another forum suggesting adding Tc-1 or similar could help the fuel pump check valve. Going to look into this as well. thank you for the reply.

Well, now it is taking five tries to get started. The new evap purge valve and battery in the key fob was not it. I just ordered a new mass airflow sensor. And we scheduled an appointment for July 26th (earliest they had) to have them check the fuel pressure. This time we are taking it to an actual mechanic. Still don’t trust anyone around here, but I don’t know what else to do. The dealership says they cannot replicate the issue and there are no codes, so they cannot do anything for it. $80 later.

Did you ever figure this out? I have replaced the purge valve, battery in the key fob and cleaned the mass air flow sensor. ours is a 2010 sport im tempted to get a new mass air flow sensor. Dealer could not figure it out. No codes.

I replaced the evac purge valve two days ago and she had it happen again today. This time it took her three tries to get it started. now I’m thinking the fuel pump check valve. Just have to find it.

do you think checking the vacuum on the evap purge valve could cause it to throw a code ?

I was hesitant about checking it last night, because I didn’t want to cause it to throw a code (check engine light). when I tested it last time, I unplugged the power wire clamp on the left, then the lower hose on the right. I then started the engine and held my finger on the open port. At that time there was no suction, indicating it was not bad (from what I saw in the videos). can I do this again without causing a code?

Update: finally got the car into the Ford dealership. They had it plugged into their diagnostics computer all day and tried to replicate the issue. No luck. They said there were no codes and everything that their computer tested checked out fine. I am not really sure what else to do at this point. I don’t want to start throwing Parts at it. I am considering just listing it for sale and providing the copy of the receipt/report we have from the dealership to the buyer. The car has not failed to start with this issue. It simply requires us to turn it over a second time, periodically when it decides to do it. ** they did tell me the car was “too old” for them to do the smoke test on the vacuum lines and evap valve. This was surprising, as I thought the video I watched on YouTube was an older expedition. I will have to search for that again.

So, we filled the car up with premium and the dash said it has 273 miles until empty. Then we filled it with regular and it showed 319 miles until empty. why would it be less with premium?

wow! I did not see those other possible issues on the tester we used at the parts store. However, she filled up with premium Friday morning, after having the codes reset (cleared with a tester her son has). the check engine light is still off and the car has not ran rough or started the way it had been. I am hopeful the cleaning of the MAF sensor did the trick. It sounds like we will have to wait another couple of days, or until she has driven 100 miles to see if the light comes back on. Crossing our fingers. as far as the vacuum lines go, I watched a video on YouTube where a mechanic used a smoke machine to find a leak in a Ford Expedition. I don’t have access to one, or that would be a great test. thanks for the additional info.

found the oil was down about 3/4 of a quart and she just had it changed about three weeks ago. 2010 edge sport 3.5 liter 118,000 miles Codes found - P0174 and P0171 pulled the mass air flow sensor and cleaned it according to instructions. reset/cleared the computer with obd reader. she just filled up with premium and waiting to see if the code (check engine light) comes back on. I am thinking we may need to replace the mass air flow sensor, air filter, and evap purge valve. I don’t want to just start chasing parts, but I believe the MAF sensor should be first, if the same code comes back up. I also realized (remembered) dad pulled the air filter out and blew it out with the compressor when we cleaned it last weekend.