Zerosum

Hey Cyberdave,NICE! Isn't it funny how the Edge isn't any longer than the Forester? It's way wider and taller, but seems about the same length. I still haven't pulled the trigger, but I'm shopping for an SEL w/o MFT. The remaining '13s are now 'leftovers' and are priced accordingly. I just looked at a brand new '13 SEL w/o MFT for $25K, which is what I'm seeing USED '11s sell for. I'm likely going to use that as leverage toward buying a gently-used '11.

I will agree that the 2nd generation Forester is not the quietest ride, but I ride a motorcycle, so wind and road noise don't bother me! And yeah, the rear seat leg room is pretty minimal. We have two kids in car seats, and until recently the youngest kid was rear-facing, which drove the front seat so far forward that I couldn't sit in it. With the car seats facing front, it's adequate, but just barely. My plan is to buy an Edge which will be my car and the "long range family-hauler", while the Forester will be my wife's car and the "short range, AWD car." Don't really see the need for AWD in both cars, not when I live in MD and see 1 good snow storm every 3 years! It's good to know that the SEL can be had without MFT. It's pretty to look at, but I've read too many bad things about it.

Very true. Cigarette smoke is like cat pee: it doesn't matter what product you use, you'll never get it out entirely. You'll think it's gone. And then on a humid day, it'll come back. I immediately walk away from a used car if I smell cigarette smoke.

Is the ambient ligthing that important? I test drove a Limited the other day that had it, and just seemed silly. I started pushing the button to change the colors and went "OONTZ-OONTZ-OONTZ" at the sales guy. I asked him "Does it come with glow sticks, too?"

Well, get the SE trim level with that doesn't come with MFT. I'm considering getting a used Edge myself. I'd like to get an '11 with the current engine and braking system, but my price limits dictates that it would almost have be an SE. Which is fine with me, when I look at the MyFord Touch system, all I can think is "Wow, this will be fun when it a) breaks, or b ) is obsolete in 5 or 6 years." I'm a tech savvy guy, but for my car, just give me old fashioned buttons and knobs. I don't need 'infotainment' while I'm driving! Also, I own an '08 Forester, non-turbo. It's my wife's car. It's a great car for short trips and city driving. Good ground clearance. GREAT driver visability. Lots of low-end power, not much top-end power. Handles great. Little things bug me, like the paint is really soft and easly damaged, and the floor carpeting is cheap beyond words. But it's a solid little car. Easy to work on, too.