tk2fast

So Red Line is rated highest because it costs the most and has the highest levels of anti wear and cleansing additives.

 

Granted this is 5w20 data, but you can see it at mactgarage.com under the Oil Analysis section.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oTuPwZHKoSqFLClaZrBhMh9D5vpX0VhLZrmVdLyFnbE/edit#gid=1379600026

 

Really don't understand "Bill's Ranking" in his oils comparison spreadsheet. He says he uses the data from Blackstone Labs that contain specifics around additives, flashpoints, viscosity ect. But his actual methodology is not clear at all to me. Especially when one oil gets an A+ and another a D based only on the additives in the product. Where is the "real world" application and analysis? Am I missing something? Any thoughts?

Quite interesting. Also would have liked to see mactgarage.com include Amsoil in his analysis. Surprising is the top oil in mactgarage.com, Red Line Synthetic which has a high amount of calcium. We know that calcium is one of the most effective additives for cleanliness and wear protection but also contribute to low speed pre-ignition events (LSPI). I understand that there are quite a few factors that influence LSPI, but again, Red Line receiving top dog rating especially with a $12 price tag per qt is surprising.

I checked out the price of the Mobile 1 Annual Protection and the price was about $6 less for 5 quarts than the top Amsoil Signature Series.

Nice video 1004ron, very interesting. Amsoil is rated at 25K miles and in testing, proven to be a better overall product than Mobil 1. Now with that said I'm not trying to get anyone "worked up" here. Mobil 1 is a fine product, more readily available and costs less.

With either oil I do not recommend going 20K miles between an oil change, unless you have a bypass filter setup. I feel more comfortable changing my oil at around 10K so either oil would be fine IMO. Everyone has their own opinion on what is best, so go with what you believe is working. Overall Mobil 1 is a great choice.

Interesting test using Amsoil synthetic...

The GM Turbo Coking Test

The Turbo Coking Test was designed to simulate the extreme operating conditions of a turbocharged engine. It evaluates a motor oil’s ability to resist deposit buildup in the oil passages and bushings of a turbocharger. Temperature increases within the turbo and the weight of any deposits are recorded.

Test Parameters

Engine

2012 GM 1.4L

Duration

2,000 cycles of extreme heat soaks – approximately 537 hours

Measures

A motor oil’s ability to resist deposits in a turbocharger’s oil passages and bushings

Simulates

High-heat operation of a turbocharged engine

Requirement

Temperature change within the turbocharger limited to 13 percent

Signature Series protects turbochargers 72% better than required by GM dexos1® Gen 21

The GM Turbo Coking Test requires an oil to limit the temperature change within the turbocharger to 13 percent or less to pass the test. Amsoil Signature Series limited the temperature increase to only 3.6 percent, controlling heat and proving it protects against deposits common to high-temperature engine environments.

1Based on independent testing of AMSOIL Signature Series 5W-30 in the GM Turbo Coking Test as required for the GM dexos1 Gen 2 specification.

*All trademarked names and images are the property of their respective owners and may be registered marks in some countries. No affiliation or endorsement claim, express or implied, is made by their use. All products advertised here are developed by AMSOIL for use in the applications shown.

Curious... how would you check the VIN's of the new 2019 Edge production?

I thought this to be "funny" as Ford still does not recommend fluid changes in the PTU, yet recommends using premium fuel.

From the 2019 Edge owners manual. 2.0LEB

For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer.

Some time back I tried contacting Ford via email about this to no avail.

The updated order guide as on 9/1 states that the only 2019 Edge to have paddle shifters is the AWD. The FWD will not even have a Select Shift transmission. So strange.

Nice review Jim... thanks

This is in the new 2019 Edge owners manual.

Thanks enigma-2. Great info. These new vehicles are quite complex and with that the greater the chance for more to go wrong, so I was thinking that it might be prudent to have an extended warranty.

There is another factor at play here. All PTU's, irregardless of brand, will fail. It's inherent in its design. The factor is the service dealer. My local dealer checks all PTU's at every oil change. (That's how they found my PTU starting to leak around the seal. Gen 1.) Non-Ford mechanics, including handyman oil changes, probably never check the unit. Early detection is the key. It's a lot cheaper to change the seal than to replace the entire unit. The seal starts to leak, unit loses fluid and what's left overheats and fries into goo, resulting in failure.

 

My local service manager told me that he recommended fluid change at 36k. But they don't push it with customers as it's not a Ford servicable unit. Just for those who ask for if. (Me and one other guy).

 

Talked to him about using Amsoil and he said they only use Motorcraft designed for this application. He thought that it wasn't the fluid failing, rather the seal getting old and starting to leak. (Mine starting to leak around 92k.) They replaced it under extended warranty and should be good for another 80-90k or so.

All good points for sure. More Ford dealers need to be up to date on this as it would help prevent a lot of heartaches. I posted Amsoil Severe Gear Lube earlier just a help as it's new packaging might make it easier to fill. I do think that Amsoil has a little higher heat tolerance than the Ford lube though. But really the most important issue is just changing the fluid, period. There are a lot of good synthetic gear lubes out there and I'm sure Ford's is very good.

May I ask if you think the extended warranty is good to have. I've looked into it and for less than 2K one can get the best premium care warranty, with zero deductible. Would like to know what others think about this also.

Understood, but you are operating off of a lot of assumptions here.

 

Selling more units does give potential of having higher failure rates if EVERYTHING else is exactly equal, but there are just too many factors at play here to assume that ford has the same failure rate as Mazda.

 

You are well within your right to never buy another Ford and dislike Ford. Dont think Im trying to deter you from that. Im simply playing devils advocate and trying to understand your opinion.

I had to to make assumptions to make some sense out of it, but I think there is some validity to my points. As you said there are just too many factors to quantify as to prove it. I really don't dislike Ford, just any manufacturer that does not do the "right" thing and there are many that don't. And seems most people have a different interpretation of the "right" thing as is evident here. I just feel Ford should have been more forthcoming on this issue as it has gone on for a long time. Not good PR for Ford.

And yes, I would still rate Ford well above many others out there.

Thanks for the reply.

Tk2fast, do you know what percentage of AWD vehicles have had issues? I think this would largely dictate the need for extended warranties or product changes.

 

I do not, but maybe Mazda had a much higher failure rate and that is why they took action.

 

There are a number of factors that go into design changes, not just anecdotal

I would think Ford sells a hell of a lot more AWD vehicles over a longer period of time versus Mazda. Now considering both Mazda and Ford use the same PTU, and assuming both PTU's had similar failure rates, then one would think that Ford would have had more PTU problems.

Even IF Mazda had a higher failure rate, I doubt they would have had more total failed units than Ford, especially when you look at how many different Ford vehicles have used that same PTU configuration, combined with the total years (over a decade).

Since Ford most likely had more total failed units, the cost of extending the PTU warranty probably would have been much greater than Mazda.

This is my logic when I said, Ford also should have extended the PTU warranty here in the US.

So Mazda does the right thing and extends the warranty on the PTU, but Ford doesn't, except for the ME. Hmmm.

Looks like the continuing failures are the lack of fluid drains every 15 to 25K, depending on varying factors, with high ambient temperatures being highest on the list.

Too bad the majority of Edge AWD owners don't realize this. And too bad again that Ford still does not make it clear or would do the right thing and extend the warranty!

Is there any way to permanently turn off start/stop?

Years ago had the horizontal rotary brush that goes over the front hood get stuck and ripped open my hood, also damaging the front grill. Was not an Edge at that time.

The Jeep PTU uses the the first Gen unit made by American Axle, though the second Gen is going on the new Edge.

If I am not mistaken, Ford is going with a new supplier for the AWD systems for 2019 on the Edge. I'll see if I can find some information.

Good call. I think this is what might be on the 2019 Edge. A disconnecting AWD system. Maybe this will alleviate the PTU problem?

https://www.aam.com/media/story/aam-s-next-generation-ecotrac-increases-

I suggest to make a survey amongst forum members to get an idea of the percentage of those who had an issue with the PTU. Same for the other "common" issues.

 

Note that for the PTU, Ford did offer an extended warranty (10Y/120K Miles) for the Middle East where there is much higher temperatures & high speed driving in addition to crossovers being marketed as SUVs and driving on sand dunes is much more common than in the US. Also replacement PTUs came with drain plugs & on 2013 or 2014 all PTUs came with drain plugs from the factory. Meaning Ford was trying to address the issue. If I'm not mistaken, there are also at least 6 or 7 versions (incremental improvements) for the standard PTU.

Thanks for you input omar302. It would have been nice if Ford did the same here in the US and specifically in Arizona where temps can easily reach 115. And I applaud the incremental improvements (albeit too little too late here) which is why earlier in the posts I asked if someone from Ford or a Ford mechanic would chime in and enlighten the issue.

On my Gen 1.5 I use Mobil-1 OR Valvoline full synth 75w-100 High Temp gear oil and I change it at 20k intervals. High temp because that is when most of the problems of sludging occurs - during prolonged high temp operation. I think regular changes are more damage preventative than the maker of the lube oil. While I do believe there are superior products to the Mobil-1 or Valvoline product (Amsoil for instance) I am comfortable changing the PTU oil at the intervals I mentioned and using the M-1 or Valv product. I have 93k miles on my Edge and so far no runs, no drips, no errors.

I agree. From everything I've read 20K change intervals make sense. You are right to choose a high temp lube too, as that's the problem plaguing the PTU.

It sounds like you don't know the answers to those questions, but have nevertheless come to the conclusion that nothing has been done.

 

The changes that I'm aware of are increased oil capacity, cooling fins added to the casting, air scoop, oil temperature sensors, .......... and there may be more. Ford didn't broadcast those changes as far as I can tell.

 

Have you read any reports here of failures on the Gen-2 ?

I know I've been a little harsh but It's non productive to keep debating you on these issues and yes I do "know the answers" to those questions. My "questions" were rhetorical. Look at the big picture here; Ford did not resolve the PTU issue with over a decade of small inconsequential "fixes" and yes there have been failures on Gen 2. Read other Ford owner forums and internet sources and it becomes clear. I understand you trying to diminish my viewpoint of this problem, but nevertheless the fact remains that Ford has a dismal record of successfully taking care of this problem, and continues into the Gen 2 vehicles. Ford had a perfect opportunity when re-designing to the Gen 2 to permanently take care of the problem, but failed to do so.

Been a pleasure talking with you.

You never said what lubes you use.