Robert99

Ok so finally figured out what happened to our edge and it runs and drives now finally, so the remanned engine did not come with a trigger wheel for the crankshaft, which would explain why we had no RPM on the dash or computer and no spark, thanks for the help, the guide for the crankshaft system really helped to narrow it down, and that knowledge has helped me fix a couple other cars already too, we do have a mystery though, so how was it running off of starter fluid with no trigger wheel? That's what I dont get 

1 hour ago, 1004ron said:

 

There's no way it could have run on starter fluid if there was no spark, so something you've done since then has killed the spark.

 

It appears that you have started throwing parts at it hoping for the best, which typically has poor odds with something like this.

 

 

That's what I'm wondering is what happened to the spark now? We aren't throwing parts at it we already put a new crank sensor in it and I took the 1 we had I'm there to check it and check the wiring and it was scratched up and had some metal on it, we cleaned it and cleaned out the bellhousing too, it was from the old starter failing, but im not sure what happened why there is no spark now, my boss had it running on starter fluid and then we pushed it in the shop and now no spark, I have checked fuses and relays again to double check all was good, checked wiring dont see anything messed up, so not sure but going to keep investigating 

Well what we have now, we have fuel, the injectors are shooting fuel now, but still no spark, I just tried a new crank sensor (warrantied new 1 for a new 1) becaue there is no rpms in the computer or on the gauge and I checked all the wiring we have continuity and all the readings were inline with the tests so I'm not sure what to do next, going to keep trying a few things 

The update so far, we have fuel now and it is acting like it wants to start but our starter just went out so we are going to get a new one and try again

20 minutes ago, 1004ron said:

If it starts and runs smoothly with starter fluid then it points to a fuel delivery issue, if it doesn't start with starter fluid then there's a whole lot more to check, and the codes related to crank and cams out of sync would suggest timing is off.

 

Did the company tell you that it ran, or did you see it run?

 

 

yes it starts and runs smooth on started fluid, we have gone through several things already, inertia switch is not it, fuel pump is new, 60psi fuel pressure, fuses and relays are good, the injectors are not being commanded on, the computer has 0 codes but it just cranks and will not start, ive gone through all the wiring and connectors and grounds those are all good, it is a new crank sensor but the cam sensors are the 1s that came with the engine the company tests each part before they sell them so we have paper work that it runs, the problem is somewhere on the car its self, we did reconnect 1 ground when we were testing the crank sensor but i have not got to try and crank it again yet since we did that, i ran the tests shown in the diagnostic PDF's above and everything is good from those tests too, except a small amount of voltage on 1 of the tests when there should be none, was reading at most 0.3v, i was going to try and crank it when i get to work tomorrow and see if anything has changed, going to double check the timing, we have 1 of the big matco scanners all the live data is good, spark timing is normal too, the reason we thought the crank sensor too is the computer was not reading any RPM's, i have to verify if its reading that now since i messed with the sensor

21 minutes ago, 1004ron said:

If this was a running engine that just quit working I wouldn't suspect the valve timing, but after hearing that I'll stick with my suggestion earlier in this thread - check the valve timing.

It was running when the company that remaned it tested it, if you spray started fluid it will run off that and in the computer it says "crank fuelling- disabled" messed with a few things and going to see if it runs tommmorow, if we can't figure it out I'll look into timing 

30 minutes ago, 1004ron said:

Whats the origin of this "new" motor?

From a remanufactor company near me that does a bunch of different things motors, transmissions, etc..

On 6/29/2022 at 7:14 PM, Haz said:

Hat-tip to WWWPerfA_N0W for standing in the informational gap!

Good luck!

Ok so had an accident that I had to fix 1st lol, dropped my 7mm and a extension between the motor and trans in the bell housing so had to get that out, had to take all the bolts out of the trans and pry it open and it fell out, but with the issue of it not starting we closed early today for the 4th so I will have to finish it and try to crank again tommorow, I ran through the list for diagnostics posted and everything passed except the crank and cam not synced, that's how I lost the socket in the 1st place trying to take the crank sensor out, the sensor was dirty I cleaned it and put it back because its a brand new one, then ran through the diag for the sensor circuit everything passed, the last part though checking for voltage in the harness there was 0.3v , and it says no voltage should be present on JD9

Thanks very much for all the info it helps alot, I'll be back in the shop on Friday trying the things listed and report back if it's fixed or not, this has helped up narrow it down alot 

2 hours ago, Haz said:

The following is PDF download link for 'No Start Pinpoint Test' from 2010 Gasoline PC/ED Manual...

 

Pinpoint Test For Cranks But Doesn't Start - Fuel or Ignition Issue - 2010 FoMoCo Gasoline Powertrain Control Emissions Diagnosis (PC-ED) Manual.pdf

 

Good luck!

Thanks for the manual we are going to check over all of it, is there more to it? It says if crank and cam is not synced to go to "JD2" and that is not listed in the PDF, in our scan tool it shows that it is not synced

2 hours ago, 1004ron said:

Don't quote me, but I think the inertia switch cuts the fuel pump.

 

 

That's what I was reading too, so dosent seem like it will be the problem, hopefully fixing it will help some, the inertia switch is not reset though it is up and won't click down, if it's not then not sure what else to look for on the car to why it wont start 

59 minutes ago, Haz said:

From the 2010 Edge Workshop Manual....

 

Fuel System Shutoff Feature

The FP module is controlled by the PCM. Electrical power to the FP module is provided through the IFS switch that will de-energize the fuel delivery secondary circuit in the event of a moderate to severe collision. The IFS switch is a safety device, located under the LR quarter trim panel. Should the vehicle shut off after a collision due to this feature, restart the vehicle by first turning the ignition OFF, push the reset button on the IFS switch, then turn the ignition to the ON position.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks, hopefully it helps some, if not don't have many ideas on what else it is 

8 hours ago, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

vct has only 1 per valve cover, ti-vct has two. vct only controls intake, ti-vct controls both intake and exhaust. if the new motor is from an 08, then it should be 100% compatible.

 

are you sure the new motor has no timing issues? there was a tsb on the phasers that state if it had timing related codes, that the phasers would need to be replaced. i guess tho the codes would show up when you started it after the install, but its puzzling why it wont even start.

Ahh gotcha thanks for the info I'm not too familiar with ford's, and we have it narrowed down the fuel sender had a open circuit I fixed that and we are wondering if it's the inertia switch now I'll add a picture of what our scanner shows, we have no codes at all on the system which is the weird part, but what I have shown in the picture is what is confusing us now, because I just went and checked every ground, connecter and wire and its all good, fuel pump is good and getting 60psi but the pcm is not firing the injectors for some reason, fuses and relays are also good

4 hours ago, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

the 3.5 in a 2010 is vct, not ti-vct. i am not sure how that affects the sync issue but the pcm seems to be expecting a different response from the sensors than it is getting.  i don' t know enough to say that you can use the 2010 oem pcm with the ti-vct engine, a reflash with an as-built from a 2011+ might work, but i just don't know. you could ask a tuner to see if this new engine can be accommodated with the old pcm.

 

changing the throttle body should rid the throttle actuator code, but it will not help with the syncing issue.

Gotcha thanks for the help, I'm not sure either if the pcm will work, im not a Ford expert I'll have to look into it, I was researching I thought that if there was a timing controller on each valve cover that it was a ti-vct or is it not that simple to tell? Both motors have the same wiring and everything hooked right up 

Motor is from a 08 

6 hours ago, enigma-2 said:

ECM good?

That I am not sure of, the car ran and drove when it came in

33 minutes ago, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

did you use a VCT 3.5 or a Ti-VCT 3.5? probably a silly question, but needed to ask. since it is cranking (150-250 rpm?), it is not a PATS issue, and the PCM/instrument cluster are not involved.

 

comes down to checking all the electrical connections and health of battery. are you able to turn on/run all accessories, headlamps, etc?

 

if cam and crank sensors are not synced, then it should set a code. what was the original problem that led to replacement of the engine? was it misfiring on the old setup?

Both the 1 we took out and the 1 we put in at Ti-VCT, all the accessories work, battery does get drained from using the scan tool and cranking, and there is only 1 code other then the readiness test, it has a throttle actuator error, the old engine was replaced because the headgaskets were blown, it had green oil and the customer wanted to go ahead and just do a new motor then do the head gaskets 

i work for a local shop, we recently swapped a 3.5L in a 2010 ford edge and it will not start, i have a scan tool that can read live data, it will crank but it will not start, it has no spark and the fuel injectors are not being triggered, the fuel pump is new, fuses and relays are good, all wiring is plugged in and the wires are in tact, it has a new crankshaft position sensor, in the data stream there is a option for "crankshaft and camshaft sensors synced" "yes or no" or similar wording, and it says no they are not synced, i have not found a way to resync them looking at google or through the scan tool, i was not sure if that was the problem, i checked on the data stream for "camshaft sensor fault" and it came up saying there was a fault so i tried switching them around since its a reman motor and that error went away after flipping them around, i was also looking at would maybe the key be an issue? like if the battery is low or needs to be relearned? not sure what else to check, going to keep researching and trying things, but any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated