Lex Talionis

I did not ask you to tell me again. you elected to mention it again. long ago I understood - as I have written - but you seem to more repeat than I do. As a matter of fact, you just laid out the same stuff - by your own choice - again and it still does not answer my main current question. So let me restate it so you get it:

can any one definitively say a price increase went into effect on base model cost and vista roof? no guess, no surmise, you know for sure and when?

did you get that? that is the current question.

what you posted is old news to me and you just keep repeating it.

it seems people need to better read the threads and see how conversations twist and turn. I am not asking for the same info over and over, you guys are opting to give me the same info over and over like I am so dumb I did not get it. I have more specific questions, but I get the same general answer. again. as though I did not get it the first time. so, I must follow up at times.

As well, a follow up question to a comment/answer does not mean you did not get the original answer... it means it raised a separate question.

now, before you go spouting off about me posting on several different websites the same question - which is not cool to point a finger like that like I did something wrong: 1. who really cares dude? 2. who would know the same people visit here and there. there is as much chance a person hangs here but not there and vise versa. 3. the question on the other forum was specific to X-Plan and since I got my X-Plan data there, I went back to X-Plan experts to get an answer. a totally logical thing to do and also notice most of what I ask here are more general questions...

everything is negotiable my friend..... (you just have to ask and be prepared with the correct intel should they bite)

even the wheels I wanted from an SEL on a Limited that everyone - including people here and at the dealer (like my Salesman) - said 'is just not possible'.

anyway.... we can let this rest and move on .. nothing more to add and my last follow up will be after talking to the dealer on the topic

thanks for the concern. My topic(s) - if you really review them - started and cover several different things originally and, as the nature of conversation and life takes twists and turns - converge on some things. Some were straight questions started, some were others that evolved into a similar topic. not my plan or goal, such is the way of conversing as things twist and turn, etc.

it is of no never mind to me if someone combines threads/topics and what not if it is that big a deal. But, just because you and I are heavy into these several topics does not mean the next guy is and when he reads a topic title A it might pull him in as of interest of relevance to him while another B may not. yes, in this case they might converge in places, but they were all started for various reasons and 1 key question deep in one only a few of us are reading might get a better answer - which it did in this case - by someone who comes across a thread title they were interested in and participate at that level.

wow... so the privacy glass was not dark enough all around.. you also paid to tint on top of that?

I plan to do the driver and passenger, but not spend the extra cash to tint what is already privacy... especially with a black leather interior. so, that is why I am trying to find exactly what he privacy tint is so it can be matched.

yes yes.. of course I had always planned to ask the dealer. you think I am not getting it but I am. much of this did not come to light until well after they closed last night.

BUT what I am trying to do is have correct information so I can try to deal with the dealer with full information and not just pulling it out of the air when I do ask him - which I will do of course.

For example, so you understand why I am asking and looking for verifiable proof, if the last known increase was 6/6/07 and the dealer did not inform me of a price increase prior to ordering despite having talked 3 times in person, I have a leg to stand on to negotiate. Also for example, if the price increase did happen and it happened just yesterday the day I ordered, then maybe I also have a leg to stand on to negotiate that $335 increase. the more I know, the more informed I am, the better my negotiation versus just walking in and saying "I heard that maybe possibly there could have maybe been a possible increase." No, I want to walk in and say, "I see that on xxx a new increase went into effect that I was not informed was coming and not told about during the 3 occasions over 2 weeks I looked at this car."

feel me??

still not 100% sure on that as in the other post he says "Price level 815 which was effective 6/6/07 shows the BAMR at $1395. I don't have the latest prices but I can surmise that the base price went up and the BAMR increased by $100."

so it still seems like a guess (surmise) and not official and no official date of when it went in effect if that is in fact the case.

When Ford makes price changes, vehicles in inventory have the old price and anything ordered after the price change gets the new prices. Price level 815 which was effective 6/6/07 shows the BAMR at $1395. I don't have the latest prices but I can surmise that the base price went up and the BAMR increased by $100.

 

Had you found a unit in inventory that was invoiced under the old prices, you would have saved that difference. The dealer is not trying to take advantage of you. Prices change and incentives change. Your pricing will be what is shown on your VOC. See it it has PL820 or PL825 as the price level spmewhere on the VOC.

is there a definitive way to determine if in fact there was a price increase in both the base price and the vista roof price rather than just guessing that is the issue? there must be some way to find out if that is the story so this can be put to rest for me?

your right.. I am 100% going crazy as things do not line up with what I see on the web or other literature - I just do not want to get taken for a ride as I have once before and vowed to never have it happen again

your right.. it could be my error... but I am a pretty anal guy (obviously)

your right... we could do this back and forth 4ever at this rate

your right.... I will scan and send my VOC so you can maybe find where my error is as several things (from the vista roof oddity to the claimed base level invoice price versus this invoice price is as all the items you will see match up perfect with the invoice price but the vista roof and the national base price???)

On my Vehicle Order Confirmation printout it has the retail price for every item I added next to the X-Plan price. Each lines up to be about 85% of retail.

BUT, on the Ford website, the side of every Edge, in their print literature at the dealer it shows the Panoramic roof (43p) as 1395 retail. My X-Plan invoice lines up with every single retail price in all those above mentioned places on all items I added BUT on the roof. My X-Plan shows the retail as 1495. How is this possible when published price is 1395 everywhere?? Why is this 1 item changed?

is it possible for a dealer to do this on the down-low?

Hi Lex. :D The X-Plan price for that Edge is $33,924 (the MSRP is $36,055).

 

So now you have a general idea what the X-Plan price should be on your Edge (not including the option difference). Interior color has no effect on price.

 

As far as the price difference on the Moon Roof, I can't answer that at the moment. Maybe someone else has the definitive answer to that one, or you can pose that question to the Dealer?

 

Good luck! :beerchug:

something seems off here then...

If that VIN has an X-Plan of 33,924 AND it has the expensive tow package... my X-plan with NO tow package is 33,875... just $49 cheaper for me?? not possible.

Plus, I have that odd $100 extra on the panoramic roof retail cost....

does that vin show what the DLR INV is on that roof? Mine says RETAIL of 1495 and DLR INV of 1271.

No price out the door paperwork.. but from what he said it would be that VOC + tax, title, license (about 9% he says) and - any incentives, which we know will likely change to some degree in 6-8 weeks.

Closest I could find for similar rig (which is pretty much same as mine but camel leather versus my black and a 395$ tow package I did not order versus my 489$ credit for the wheels I did not want) so should give me good idea if correct....

2FMDK39C38BA40959

Encinitas Ford

Encinitas CA 92024

BTW, 1 thing I did notice that I found odd was that on every option the "Retail" price lines up with exactly what is on the web and every other piece of literature EXCEPT 1 item. In my invoice it shows the Panoramic Roof (43p) as 1495 while it is listed everywhere else as 1395 - including the above cars VIN and the web and brochures... what is up with that?

All seems good then by what you explain.

If VOC means Vehicle Order Confirmation - as I said I DO have this in my hands. So, it seems I am good there as I have this.

When the car arrives in 6-8 weeks I need to also get the "Factory Invoice" and match with the VOC I have already. I understand that. A cross check that should be done as it is also a requirement on their end to provide. Will do.

My only 3 real questions then are:

(1) when looking at my VOC is there a way they can pull shenanigans on me and inflate it in some way an unsavy guy would not know?

(2) on my VOC are the itemized additional FDAF and DEST & DELIV prices, but I see no DOC FEE, so when you say that "The X-Plan price already includes all fees (including the FDAF, Dest, Delivery, etc, etc.)." does that mean they added them 2 times - 1 built into the x-plan and 1 in the itemized list or did they just itemize them for me?

(3) did I do a wise and good move by getting and going the X-Plan route or could I have done better on my own straight negotiating? I am under the impression the X-Plan was the way to go, but not 100% sure...

BTW.. thanks a ton for all the help. I am not as helpless as I may seem, just not been through all of this in years and the last time I was a kid and just winged it on the spot (and paid dearly for it I came to find out).

I would not worry about that very much, as an educated guess would say that with the state of the economy and car sales, the Incentives will likely stay the same, or increase. So this will hopefully work in your favor.

that was the fleet guys assessment also. 'could' 'maybe' 'possibly' work in my favor by delaying to see how incentives change.

Hi Lex. :D Glad it all worked out in the end.

 

Additionally, there are rules the Dealer must follow for X-Plan sales. First, did they show you the "Factory Invoice" (not the "MSRP" Window Sticker) with the box labeled "X-Plan"? Did they give you a copy of that "Factory Invoice"? They are required to do those things.

 

Also, be sure the Dealer charged you no extra fees, other than Tax, Title and Registration and a "Documentation Fee" (which according to X-Plan rules is limited to a $75 maximum).

 

I hope your wait is not too long, and good luck! :beerchug:

I do not recall a "Factory Invoice with the box labeled "X-Plan"" nor do I have a copy of the factory invoice.

How do I know if they charged me extra fees? I see see here FDAF ASSESSMENT of $464 (I think is advertising), DEST and DELIV of $705,

I have in my hands a 1 page paper that is entitled Vehicle Order Confirmation and shows things like RETAIL and DLR INV prices. It shows the RETAIL next to the DLR INV price and the code for each option. It says *this is not an invoice* and then shows TOTAL BASE AND OPTIONS with a RETAIL price and then the DLR INV price and then the price for A/Z PLAN, D PLAN, X PLAN.

What should I do next then?

Yep, it is there on everyone's invoice!

10-4 on mine also.. but then they say - to offset - but "we give you a full tank".. duh, like they are going to let me roll out the dealer having spent +30k on a car woth a quarter tank.

oh you must mean to actually buy it or not.

no dude... it means whether to take the cash, cash + APR, or straight APR incentive... jeez

Make what decision then?

read the thread and that will be apparent.... heck, even read the title and that would be apparent

Just did my order.. used an X-Plan for pricing (which I understand to be the best way to go versus just walk in negotiate).

Cannot comment yet on what the final incentive options I had are (APR and rebates) as those that are available today cannot be used as you can only use what is available at the time the car comes. And that can be 6-8 weeks on an order.

So, when it comes, we see the incentives then, I will report back and make the decision then

I'm pretty sure you can have any rim. I thought I read a post where someone actually received a credit for going to the painted wheel. If you haven't asked a salesman, you could might want to give that a go.

correct... that is what happened. got the wheels I wanted plus a price credit and they took the wheels I hated and will put them on another car and mark that price up.

UPDATE... here is how it all went down today, no more guessing... using X-Plan

I ended up having to do the Limited as they just could NOT build the SEL with both the packages I wanted. Funny thing is, in the end, custom building an SEL and still not getting both packages was slightly more expensive ($100) than getting the Limited with both the packages I wanted. go figure. cheaper and I got the items I wanted.

Now, as for the wheels... I ended up getting them to give me the SEL wheels I wanted AND with the new tires that will come with the Limited I ordered AND credit me the $489 difference for dropping from those chrome clad to the premium painted (which is an upgrade to me).

So it is an '08 Edge Limited:

FWD

White Sand

Black Leather

Sync

Premium Package

Seating Flex

Vista roof

DVD Nav system

Power lift-gate

Cargo management

Sirius

SEL Premium Painted wheels versus Chrome Clad wheels

Here is what I just ordered today Jan 3...

loaded '08 Edge Limited in CA

FWD

White Sand

Black Leather

Sync

Premium Package

Seating Flex

Vista roof

DVD Nav system

Power lift-gate

Cargo management

Sirius

the clock is ticking.....

UPDATE: very next day - Jan 4 - I had a fax from the dealer showing Ford had received the order and issued the VIN number already

Here is what I just ordered... so hard to compare with others as some have this, some have that, some neither...

X-Plan pricing in CA for a loaded '08 Edge Limited:

FWD

White Sand

Black Leather

Sync

Premium Package

Seating Flex

Vista roof

DVD Nav system

Power lift-gate

Cargo management

Sirius

PLUS.... I got them to do the wheels off the SEL I wanted and credit me the price back ($489)

X-Plan Price (with wheel discount): $33386.21 + TTL of course - any rebates at the time which cannot be figured now until the vehicle comes in

So.... how does this seem. I understand the X-Plan is pretty great place to be versus just walking in and negotiating... but does this seem like in? Any thoughts?

but look at the 2nd picture of Hands.. if he says it is 15% that is clearly lighter than than the rest of the car's privacy glass.

Technically, the question I posed was not about a discount... that was not raised until post #4 and not by me but by CorporateEdge.

Second, look at the big picture which was my point.... which is.... I, you and the others here happen to be a very small % that do web research beyond what the salesman say. 99% of the people take the word of the salesman and the salesman is wrong in saying "you have a cell phone? then you can sync it to the sync system!" as it overstates the ability of the system... Additionally, the website that covers the phone compatibility is vague at best in saying things like, and I quote, "Most Bluetooth-enabled phones support hands-free calling through Sync". And, "Even if your Bluetooth-enabled mobile phone is not shown, it may still work with your Sync! Many existing mobile phones have not been tested yet and new ones are introduced frequently. If your phone is Bluetooth-enabled, it is likely to support Sync’s features. So if you don’t see your phone here, just stop by your dealer and test it with Sync." That is a bold statement when in fact the Treo is the, arguably, most ubiquitous PDA phone out there... and seems to have questionable success.

What if I had bought the car based on the salesman's statement and grinning sales speech as he explained the greatest of the feature, only to find out my nor my spouses phone would work? I just got lucky I am anal and went and researched it and found out about this issue - most won't be so lucky.

"arbitrarily decided on $15,000."

yup that is EXACTLY what I did... honestly. just seemed like a cash number I was ok with parting with.

I appreciate your efforts, caveats and honesty... I know you have good intentoins and I understand we are pulling numbers and ideas from our just to make the point.. but it still helps a guy think more in depth about it. trust me, I will not come back and say, "but some guy named bbf2530 on some internet BBB I just started posting on told me I should do this and it would be okay" :D

it already has me finding neat calculators on the web that answer this EAXCT question ( Which is better: a rebate or special dealer financing? ), it has me understanding a general zone on when it would be ideal to take the APR versus the cash.. it just has the juices flowing now and I have a better sense of how to approach the decision.