mjonis

Well not exactly related to engine life, but since I'm also looking at the Hyundai this does kinda jive with what I've observed so far a well

http://bestride.com/news/technology/three-great-turbocharged-engines-that-buck-the-trend

let us know if hyundai/kia have their cooling seats working properly

Will do. I know the 2014 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport cools back and bum.

I didn't test it out in Nov. when I last looked (too cool). but now that I know it's an issue on the Fords, will hopefully be able to test this weekend.

After reading some of the Carplay stuff in the Audio/Sync sub-forums, I'm now wondering if the Edge (2016) can have remote start via Smartphone app?

I *thought* if you bought the remote access/security kit thingy you could get that?

At least this seems to indicate you can?

https://accessories.ford.com/aerial-asy-10667.html

(with additional purchase of:

Requires Vehicle Security Kit 19A361 at an additional cost.)

Anyone out there actually have this and can confirm it works?

Not talking aftermarket/third party (Viper, etc.).

Well, my 2005 Chevy Equinox POS just had the carrier bearing go and the rear driveshaft (I think, I'm not awake yet). My extended warranty (thank you CarChex) will cover all but $224 of the $1200, and lasts through Dec. of this year. I think I paid $2300 for the 5-year warranty. Have spent $4,000 in repairs since then (that were covered, not counting tires and things like that). So I'm now wanting to get something before the warranty expires (so probably Nov. just because that's supposedly the best time for deals Nov-Feb).

My 3 finalists:

2016 Ford Edge Titanium AWD Turbo with 302A, cold weather package, adaptive steering and 19" tires

2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0 AWD Turbo w/Ultimate package

2016 Kia Sorento SXL Turbo AWD w/tech package or possibly the 2017 SXL v6 (not keen on the crappy 17 mpg and the $1800 cost difference between turbo, but we'll see).

I finally found a Ford dealer with the 2016 Titanium AWD Turbo w/302A and 19" rims (didn't have the adaptive steering or cold weather package, but for a test drive I don't care). I had originally test drove the 2015 Ford Edge SEL AWD w/turbo and 18" rims.

Now, the FIRST time I test drove I had my Android phone with a sound meter app, but nothing for the bumpiness (basically you rely on the accelerometer to sorta report back the g-forces). Unfortunately I didn't have the accelerometer app at the time, and since then I've switch to an iPhone. I'm using the SPLnFFT app (supposedly one of the more accurate apps). Although I haven't calibrated it, but it seems to be within 2db of the Android phone which was calibrated. Used the Android phone for the accelerometer this time.

I drove the same route from my house to work and took measurements.

MY car:

highest db: 98

Average: 73 db

2016 Ford:

highest db: 83

average: 62 db

I'll have to dig up the g-force readings for mine

2016 Ford g-force:

highest = 1.27

lowest = 0.77

I will say that from memory (not objective) the 19" wheels Do make for a rougher ride vs. the SEL. I'm not sure if it's any worse than mine or just different. Have to dig up my screenshots from the Equinox to see more "objectively". Ironically I thought the Ford was a little louder this time around, but soon realized it's because it's so quiet, I can actually hear passing cars. My car has so much tire and engine noise it drowns out everything else. PLUS I had the AC on in the Ford and mine was off in my Equinox when I did the recordings. But it was too hot in the Ford to not run the AC.

I really liked the 302A package. The shifter knob was NOT in the way of the buttons (unlike the 2015 Murano I had looked at).

My only negative that really bothered me:

The non-cooling seat backs. My ass froze off quite nicely but my back sweated all over the back seat of the car. I was really hoping it was a "hit or miss" and that the vehicle would actually cool the back, but not at all. this is a pretty serious negative in my book. I don't know if the TSB that doesn't really work had been applied to the unit I test drove.

My main point in this test drive was to get the sound/comfort levels recorded. I did not play with the head unit much or anything else like that.

I'll update more when I test drive the Hyundai and the Kia.

All 3 vehicles fully loaded are within about 3k MSRP I believe of each other. I think 42k for the Hyundai, 45k for the Ford, 46.5k for the 2017 Kia v6.

I've got my spreadsheet with my "must have's" and "wants". Haven't scored/ranked the wants yet. For example, even though I've not tested it, the Adaptive Steering and self-parking are desirable. On the other hand, the Ford has DRL but no Fogs. The Kia has Fogs, but no DRL, and both Hyundai/Kia have the arround-view camera and AA/Carplay today and 10-year warranty. Hyundai/Ford have ability for smartphone remote start. Kia does not (without aftermarket installations). But the Kia/Hyundai also actually cool your back (at least my roomate's Hyundai does).

So we'll see as things progress. Odds are though by the time Nov. rolls around I won't be able to get the 2016 I want, and will have to custom-order a 2017, but not terribly keen on that if it's only been out 2 months (who knows what new things might not work). But maybe they'll have fixed the seat cooling. Plus the QA issues kinda bother me (doors/paint/trim problems I've seen reported here--just reminds me of all my 2005 Chevy problems and that turned out crappy).

It's still on my short list though. I have looked (and ruled out):

Chevy (sorry, never again, Chevy screwed me twice over with this car)

Subaru (no heated steering wheel on Forester or Outback--plus WAY too loud for the CVT)

Nissan Murano (NO smartphone integration at all unless you only use Google Search--although it had the sleekest interior, IMO, and the v6 CVT was smooth/quiet, and had excellent gas milease, albeit 6" longer than I really wanted).

Toyota Highlander (the only way to get heated steering wheel and heated seats is to go to the highest trim level, which forces you to have the 2nd row Captains chairs that only seats 2, AND you must take the third row seat that only very small children can fit into).

Lexus (55k just to get heated steering wheel?--no thanks).

I refused to go larger/smaller (ie, Mazda CX5 too small and CX9 too big). Same reason I don't want the Escape or the Explorer (too small/too big).

Older topic but my 5 cents (we don't have pennies in Canada anymore):

 

My Ford PremiumCARE ESP (from a US seller) purchased online at $2000 (Canadian) for a used (out of warranty) Canadian Edge. Keep in mind that shop rates and parts are priced a lot higher here in Canada than in the USA. 1st issue would have cost $1600. I paid $100 deductible. 2nd issue would have cost $600 . I paid $100 deductible. My warranty expires in 2019 and I won't hit the mileage limit. Out of pocket difference so far is $0. I've got 3 years left with no big $$$ worries.

Warranty/ESP sounds good. However doesn't speak well to the quality of the Edge (IMO) if you've already had that much in repairs. I have a $2500 third party 5-year warranty on my 2005 Equinox (warranty is up this Dec.) 72,000 miles. Last 4 years, over 4k in repairs. Latest is the lovely carriage bearing and drive shaft (apparently very common on the Equinox). Ugh. Will be glad to soon be rid of my POS Chevy.

Today I was at the dealer checking the 2016 Edge, finally they arrived, unfortunately too expensive $54K! Anyway, I noticed that the seat backs, just above the rear map pockets, are perforated. Thought this might be a new change to allow the seat back to ventilate the heat. Maybe those facing the problem can chime in if this is indeed a new design change to fix the issue.

 

IMAG2328.jpg

 

IMAG2329.jpg

Nope. I finally test drove a 2016 Edge Titanium AWD/Turbo with 302A package. It was very warm today.

Seat cooled extremely well.

NOTHING on the back. I sweated all over the back of the seat (ha)

Too bad as it will go in my "con" column when I test drive the Hyundai and Kia this weekend.

Unfortunately my current car is pooping the bed big time, hence why I'm re-looking again now.

While I don't own an Edge yet (still a maybe, I've gotta wait until I pass probation at work in Nov.).

Fog Lights

Cooled seats that actually work

"around" view camera (like the Kia/Hyundai)

Fold Flat front passenger seat

Proximity opener for rear hatch (like Kia/Hyundai) instead of trying to balance on one foot while you have heavy package/box in hands.

Power folding mirrors

Ask your Ford dealer, they can give you the book estimate.

Parts related:

https://secure.revolutionparts.com/levittown-ford/auto-parts/2015/ford/edge/sport-trim/2-7l-v6-gas-engine/engine-cat/turbocharger-and-components-scat

 

Location & ease of access will determine the labor from that point. On the 3.5 twin turbo on a transverse engine, labor time is 2 hrs for front turbo, 6 hours rear turbo.

Thanks for the info! I didn't know there were front/rear locations. From what I had heard previously, labor is the big expense if having to fix/repair/replace.

Ford's response was poorly worded. All of Ford's engines are designed to last at least 150K miles and ten years. All that means is they test them and make sure they don't fail before that. There are many cases of 3.5L engines going 250K or longer (including macbwt here) even though they have the same disclaimer.

 

If the turbo is designed to last 150K miles then there is no reason to think it would fail before the rest of the engine, provided there was proper maintenance. Today's turbos are much different than the older ones.

 

The original 2.0EB was redesigned, not replaced with the 2.7L. The biggest change was to head cooling and a switch from a single scroll to a twin scroll turbo.

OK, thanks. I was hoping that was the answer. Obviously nobody can predict when something will die, and averages are averages. It would make sense that, with proper maintenance, 150k miles would be doable (forget when, but wasn't it a while ago that a 100k "engine" was a big deal--I vaguely remember some car commercial about that).

If the gas mileage wasn't so poor (IMO) for the V6 (on any vehicle nowaday, looks like 17mpg is about as good as it gets, which I'm surprised that my almost 12 year old Chevy V6 still gets almost 19 city), I'd go for that instead. Although Ford's $700 "uplift" for the Turbo to V6 is far more reasonable than the Kia $1800 uplift (although that does include third row seat and rear air conditioning--neither of which I want or need).

Yeah thats what I am saying. Phones will get the wifi option definitely. If not via a software update in out current phone then in a new phone altogether.

It is easier to buy a new phone than a new Car.

 

So the question is whether Sync 3 equipped Ford Edges will ever support wifi carplay/android-auto via a SW update only.

And I think its too early to ask as since we dont even have the USB flavor yet.

 

Atleast the following article suggests it should be a simple SW update but only Ford can confirm how true it is for Sync 3 on the Edge.

 

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/18/11700174/android-auto-update-wi-fi-support-ok-google-io-2016

Since Ford couldn't even plan properly for WIRED carplay, I highly doubt they'll have wi-fi via software only. My understanding is that it *might* work with some aftermarket head units that have a wi-fi chipset in them, but even Pioneer's latest unit (last time I checked) couldn't do wi-fi carplay.

The next iPhone may change that so it can be wireless. If not this year, next year. At first Siri had to be hard wired to work in the car and than he software was updated to work wirelessly

Wireless Carplay is already a part of ios 9 (was in 8.3 but got pulled, not sure if it's pre-9 or not), and on my iPhone 6s. However, I think only 1 or 2 auto vehicles even have that ability--I could've sworn I saw a list somewhere, but having trouble finding it. I don't think anything AA "wireless" has been enabled yet.

You're misinterpreting. Ford does endurance testing to 150K miles on all their engines. That doesn't mean it won't go 300K miles.

 

It's not going to fail at 151K.

 

Long term (10-15) years reliability of the turbos is unknown. It would be a bit less risky to stick with the 3.5L NA but I don't think we've seen anything so far that indicates long term problems are expected. These turbos are designed with the engine and use much better materials than the older ones.

Warning: Long drifting post here (LOL).

I don't think I said I expected it to die, but you have to admit if the average life of something is 10 years and you plan to keep it 12-15 years, that puts you in pretty good spot to have it die before you're done with it. Although without the actual underlying data, would be hard to tell what the curve is after the "average".

Which part of this am I misinterpreting?

From Ford:

"In service, the turbo spins at up to 195,000 rpm and is designed for a life cycle of 150,000 miles or 10 years."

You state factually that it won't fail at 151k, are you going to insure financially that doesn't happen? I'm sure you rather meant that it *probably* won't fail at 151k. And if it's a true median (vs. mean), then 50% will fail prior to 150k or 10 years and 50% after that.

I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that it's lifespan is more sensitive to miles driven vs. time. ie: You drive 5,000 miles/year (hypothetically speaking), with routine maintenance, the lifespan would theoretically be more than 10 years. However, the quote from Ford was puzzling to say 150k OR 10 years.

Is that like saying, change your oil every 3 months OR 3,000 miles (whichever comes first)? Although I just saw the Kia manual that doesn't say "whichever comes first", so who decides the "or"? You or the dealer/warranty supplier? (Kia oil change manual on the Sorento with Turbo says first oil change at 3,000 miles or 6 months, and subsequent at 5,000 miles or 6 months).

Although I did notice the article is from 2010 and I thought I came across a 2011 article that Ford was discontinuing/replacing the 2.0 Ecoboost with something else (maybe the 2.7?), so not sure if that makes things better or not.

Anyone know the cost to repair/replace said Turbo? I mean if the "average" is 10 years, and it's like $2000 for the turbo replacement (assuming it doesn't trash the rest of the engine) upwards of 5k (if it does trash the rest of it), I'd think a 10-year warranty (longer, actually) is probably in order.

Unfortunately this is the only manufacturer I can find (at least via google) that publicly stated the lifespan of their Turbo's. Can't find anything on Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, or Toyota (publicly stating the lifespan, there's all sorts of conjecture on various forums).

I mean if it's all turbo's in general get 150k/10 years (how is the 10 year figure derived? Do we assume national average of 12k miles/year, and if so, why then 10 years as that would be 120k miles if the 150k miles figure is accurate?), then that's one thing. If it's specific to Ford (but then again, I can't find any other manufacturer that publicly states what the average span is, so I don't know if any other vehicle is better/worse), then I'd think that would also be something to consider.

However, even on Hyundai/Kia with the 10-year warranty, I don't know if that would cover the turbo (haven't read that far yet), but I think it's usually Powertrain, whatever that means.

Although someone mentioned this in regards to turbo repair (and it's greek to me, I don't know):

"Did the turbo compressor or turbine wheel loose and fins? even a few tiny pieces will travel and possibly end up in the intake manifold or worse: destroy the piston & cylinder.

Did the turbo line spring a leak (like many Hyundai Santa Fe) are having and the engine run out of oil? that will end up in a new engine quickly.

did the turbo destroy the catalytic converter after the bearings allowed to much play and the wheel lost a piece?"

I wasn't sure if this should be in the Ecoboost section, as it technically is a Turbo question specific to the Ford (AFAIK).

Anyhoo, I was on the Kia forums, and we were discussing the fact that Kia has discontinued the Turbo SXL trim level for 2017. If you want the highest trim level on the Sorento, you have to get the V6 (ugh). anyway, someone mentioned that Ford publicly stated that lifespan of the Turbo is 10 years/150,000.

Sure enough:

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2010/11/17/2-0-liter-ecoboost-gives-ford-focus-st-owners-turbocharged--dire.html

Now, I don't know if the 10 years/150k is specific to JUST the Ecoboost 2.0 or what.

But it was an eye opener, especially since I keep the vehicles for 12-15 years. Dropping 45k on a vehicle and not having a major component like the Turbo not last (obviously that's an "average") 10 years is a bit disconcerting.

Now, I'm not knowledgeable about cars or engines and whatnot, but someone had said that if the Turbo dies, it's possible (depending on how it died) that it could actually ruin the engine if "bits" broke off or something. Thus, costing a lot more to repair.

Is this something to actually factor in when purchasing? I have no idea if that number is "typical" for ANY turbo, or what.

The chinese bumper is different and requires fab work. The next model year edge will have Fogs in the US market. If you search, you can find the teaser pics

You sure about the 2nd to last part?

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/20399-2017-ford-edge-production-information/

Don't see fog lights listed.

You sure it's gas and not water? I only ask because my old POS 2005 Chevy Equinox did that shortly after I bought it. Thought I smelled something too. A quick google revealed the 2005 were problematic (many) and one of them was that water would accumulate in the spare tire well, and sure enough, opened it up and there was about 2 gallons of water in there (rain, etc.)

Only took 4 trips to the dealer to finally fix.

Is it dropping in and out of HD mode? It can do that if the signal is marginal and it does make a noticeable audio change.

No, on my Pioneer HD radio, certain HD stations start out super loud, and then about 7 seconds later, drop to a constant lower, decibel volume. My roomate's dad's Toyota Rav4 does the same thing. If you google it, you'll see it's an issue with HD Radio in general (there's supposedly a class action lawsuit against Audi for this), but it seems to be specific to certain HD radios and/or stations, but some seem to be worse than others. My roomate's Hyundai Santa Fe Sport has no issue with the 2 radio stations that the Toyota and my Pioneer have issues with. Ironically on the Toyota, the volume goes up and down in a constant cycle. Mine is consistent on one station in particular (and it's less than a mile away, so it's not a radio signal issue), where any time you tune to it, the volume is about 2-3x louder than any other station but about 7 seconds later, it drops in decibels so that it's slightly quieter (and it stays at that constant level unless you change radio stations again).

Very annoying.

I have subsequently disabled HD radio in the Pioneer (apparently couldn't be done in the Toyota, so they had to get the radio swapped out with one that didn't do HD Radio).

For those of you with the 2016 Edge:

Have you noticed any issues with HD Radio. Specifically where the audio is super loud for say 5-7 seconds and then it drops down (very noticeably) in decibel level?

But only HD (disable HD, if possible and it's OK)?

cv27, what are you looking for, specifically? The Titanium Edge has two TED's per each seat; one for the bottom (seat portion) and one for the back.

 

The bottom one vents out to the free air under the seat. The one for the back vents to the inside of the seat and that is where the problem begins. The ambient air used by the TED gets heated and reaches a point that the TED can't overcome the heat in the system. If you get the hot air out of the seat back, then it works fine.

 

Same problem on the F150 and the Explorer. All use similar seat designs. TWakefield from F150Forum.com has developed a fix to help alleviate this. I've applied it to my 2015 Edge, after Ford applied the TSB, which didn't fix it. After all this, my seat finally works like it should.

 

FYI

 

Paul

Eeesh. $130 for the exhaust part (not sure if you need the intake/exhaust and have no idea how much it is because it's sold out). I'm a tad confused by their instructions, but short of a YouTube video...

Wow, wonder/hope they have it fixed in the 2017 then. Either that or *if* I can get a 2016 in Nov. with what I want (ha), make the dealer take off $500 for me having to fix Ford's screw up.

 

This one is quite close (20" wheels instead of 19". Available at Romano Ford, 5431 N Burdick Street, Fayetteville, NY, 13066) :

 

http://www.inventory.ford.com/dealer/Romano-Ford-00693/model/2016-Edge/vin/2FMPK4K98GBB81753?zipcode=13066&segment=Crossover&inventoryType=Radius&ownerPACode=00693

Yeah, but I don't want the 20" wheels. Otherwise there's one over at Jack Byrne (everybody loves) that's closer.

Call me picky.

Why would anyone in their right mind buy a Brand New Edge anyway.

Like Brand New vs Used? Or Brand new as in first model year/re-design?

If the first one, I can tell you why:

Apparently once you go the highest trim with all the options, it's very hard to find a used (2-3 years old) vehicle, at least one that was $45-48k to start with.

Especially one within driving distance (and there's no way I'd buy a used car, sight unseen without being able to take it to a mechanic or for a test drive--unless they had something like 3-30 day 100% money back refund policy).

For example, the 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport is out now. I cannot, for the life of me, find a 2014 (which is 3 models old) used Hyunda Santa Fe Sport 2.0 Turbo AWD WITH Ultimate Package within a 500 mile radius of where I live. Or a 2015, let alone a 2016. There are some out there, but they will either be sans Ultimate Package, or lower trim level.

So I'll probably have to go new (wouldn't mind saving 15-20k, but not if I'm going to have to drop down trim levels or lose options).

Heck, I can't even find a NEW ford Edge Titanium AWD, Turbo with 302A package, and Adaptive Steering option, and Winter Package with 19" wheels. The closest is one with the white pearl (extra $400) AWD, Turbo with 302A, 19" wheels, but no Adaptive Steering or Winter Package.

I should be happy with the Edge. I have a 2010 Limited which I bought used (about 15 months old with just under 20,000 miles) with every possible feature. It rides well, great for passengers on trips with lots of leg and head room and comfortable seats, has a great radio/sound/navigation system and, to date, has been very reliable. It is perfect for a soccer mom or hockey dad both as a kid transporter and a road trip to grandma's vehicle. But, as a driver's vehicle of a daily commuter it is a big disappointment. The vehicle itself is too tall and the driver's seat is too upright even with height/recline adjustments. It is also too wide and the short, very sharply sloped nose makes it very difficult to tell where the right front corner is. Even with five years of driving experience I still feel uncomfortable about adequate clearance in traffic with cars on my right and have hesitancy making a left hand turn into a parking space because I don't know if I am going to hit the car to the right as I turn in. Power is good with the V6 but at a price with really poor mileage. Barely 22 mpg on the interstate and maybe 18 mpg in town. And if you want to haul anything 6 feet long or more, such as a kayak, landscaping timbers, sheets of plywood (all of which I have tried to carry in my Edge), this is definitely the wrong vehicle. For such a big vehicle, it has a surprisingly short cargo bay even with the rear seats folded down. And the rear seats don't fold flat which further limits carrying long objects. This would be okay if I had rails and could roof load my stuff, but the Edge I bought has the BAMR and is not equipped with roof rails. As I found out after purchase Ford won't even sell them to me after market because of the BAMR even though people on this forum say it can be done. All in all the Edge has given good service for what it is designed to do. My wife really likes riding in it but she won't drive it (she thinks it's too big for her to drive). I don't mind driving it on road trips but hate driving it as my daily commuter which I have to do since I can't afford to have one car for daily use and another in the garage just for road trips. I will never buy another Edge but if Ford ever decides to import the Ford Mondeo Estate Wagon from Europe I will jump on that in a heartbeat.

Good to know. I haven't looked in detail yet, but does the front passenger seat fold "forward"?

About one of the only redeeming qualities of my 2005 POS Chevy Equinox, is that the passenger front seat fold completely flat (forward). I can easily fit 6' and 8' items on the right side (depend on how wide they are).

A few questions:

1) Can you buy it after the fact?

2) Let's say there's a 10-year ESP, does that mean 10 years after the 3 year bump-to-bumper warranty? Or does it coincide?

The one I drove did and it was an SE model.

What is SW? Always write the words and then abbreviate so the reader knows what you're talking about

I thought the Original Poster was inquiring about the Titanium model/trim, not the SE? But good to know that the SE (although I believe only FWD SE can have auto-stop/start).

Is the cig lighter "always on"? (if there even is one)? then plug a USB thingy into that, that'll support the higher amperage (I think 2.1 amps is the one that'll keep the phone charged whilst using navigation vs. the crummy 1.2 amp or something)?

My pioneer head unit does the same (not enough juice to keep the phone charging fully if you're using navigation). But my chevy has an "always on" thingy for the cig lighter, so I got a charger for the phone that supports the higher amperage so I can actually charge the phone (albeit slowly) whilst using Navigation (on the phone).

1 - yes

2 - you have to pull up on it to engage it and you have to hold it to activate it while moving

 

Accidental engagement is not a problem.

Ah, OK. So pull up for "official" emergency braking usage. Push in for like when you're parking and whatnot.

I only ask because when I was test driving a few vehicles with it, I accidentally pushed it because I was resting my arms on the console.

LOL

Thanks!!!