mjonis

I have been reading this forum since a few weeks after the 2015s were in the dealer lots. I visit here everyday multiple times a day to see what is new. Right now this is what I'd be concerned with if looking at a 15:

 

1. Water leak issue. If it was built before the 28th of April, I'd probably not get it.

2. Rattles. If it has the pano roof, I'd test drive it down a bumpy road to see what kind of rattles you'd have.

3. Trim. I'd look very closely at the trim around the doors and windows to make sure they look good.

 

Beyond that, the other issues just seem to be rare occurrences popping up. Like my exhaust sputter/rattle. Only 1 other person has reported it. Just a bad muffler/resonator.

Cooled seats that don't cool and actually heat up?

The issues where the vehicle just stops/shuts down?

Been eyeing an Edge for the past few days. I have owned ONE Ford product in the past. It was a Ford Probe back in 1997. Loved that car but SO glad that I bought an extended warranty as I ended up replacing the entire tranny in that thing. My dad's always driven ford's. Explorers and now Expiditions. He's had his fair share of trips to the dealership and week long waits for a repair.

 

NOT trying to start some riot in here but I do have a question about long term reliability. We've all heard that for stands for Fix Or Repair Daily. I've always dismissed that as some 8th grade nonsense. Here in the mid south you see Ford's EVERYWHERE!

 

I am seeing a lot of noise about Edge's being put on hold, leaks, condensation and engines shutting down while in motion. I am fully aware that manufactured items are NOT perfect. But damn!

I really like the Edge and its bells and whistles but am starting to become very cautious on its short and long term reliability. How do fords do after 100K, 150K or even 200K miles?

My wife drove her Mitsubishi Outlander to 260K miles and never had a major issue ever. Just simply drove it into the ground. As stated before my Probe needed a Tranny. Since then I have been driving Mitsu's, Honda's and now Mazda. Never once had a single MAJOR issue. Actually the only one of the 3 brands I mentioned is the Mazda. The only issue I had out of it was the gawd awful Infotainment System. Mazda just don't get it. Its insufferably bad. But besides that its a good car. Now its a 2014 and only has 36K miles on it so its still a baby.

 

I know I am in a Ford forum but still....what are you thoughts on Ford's over all reliability?

 

Thanks!

Denicio

The first car I ever "owned" (myself, not given to me by my parents, etc.) was a 1997 Ford Escort Wagon, that I leased (never again I say to leasing, but that's beside the point). Had an annoying whistle at like 55 mph. Took 2 dealers almost a year before Ford issued a TSB where it was caused because they put the roof rails on backwards.

I turned that in and bought a 1999 Ford Escort Wagon and kept it for 7 years. Only problems was maybe a few months after I bought it, I had to use the heater and no heat. Turned out the mechanical cable behind the console for the temp control knob was loose so it didn't actually move. Within warranty, clutch died, they replaced it. Other than that, never had a problem. Very reliable car, IMO. It made the Consumer Reports best used car to buy for a '99 model.

Then I made the mistake of my 2005 Chevy Equinox. Never buy a Chevy again. Water leaks in the wheel well. Took 3 or 4 visits to get fixed. Rubber seals on rear doors rubs against the body and wears the paint away. Dealer said Malibu had the same problem. They ended up putting clear chip guard strips on the body to keep it from rubbing any further. (still on there). At 38,000 miles, head gasket went because of the POS Dex Coolant that was used that interacts with the rubber gaskets in aluminum engines. GM had a class action settlement, but you had to have had the problem prior to Dec. 2008 (mine was not) and then of course, GM went bankrupt so any warranty you may have had went bye-bye. Cost me about $2,000 to fix. THEN I bought the extended warranty (Carchex--EXCELLENT service, BTW). I still have the vehicle, looking to replace in 1-3 years.

I'm looking at the Edge, but no way will I take a new redesign year, especially on the Edge. Too many "major" problems as far as I'm concerned. They're still apparently halting people's orders for weeks/months for reasons unknown.

That being said:

Reliability varies from manufacturer and model year to model year. I bet when Consumer Reports gets data on teh 2015 it will be horrible reliability compared to 2014 model year (but 2014 I believe is better than 2013). I will wait for 2016 model year for 2 reasons:

1) Sync 3

2) Hoping that reliability is as good as the competition I'm looking at.

I suppose I'm a bit of a hypocrit by saying never to GM again (I won't even consider the 2015/2016 Equinox). But after having water leak issues in my current car, I'm very leery about issues like that in the 2015. Supposedly fixed now, but that coupled with the other issues and past experience make me reconsider any new re-design.

I'm sure there are 2015 Edges without any issues, but I don't want to spend $40k on a car that I plan on keeping 12-15 years and have it be nothing but hassle. I went through that once before with my car and never again, if I can help it.

Yes, I like the used route if I can save that much, however, it seems that in my area (upstate NY - 12205), nobody has the Titanium Edge with 302a and Drivers Assist - not even NEW.

So I am concerned that if it's that difficult to get that package NEW, imagine what it'll be like trying to find one used that's within a 4-hour drive (I would never buy one without being able to physically look at it and drive it, etc.)

Vs. the others I'm looking at, everyone has new ones in stock (lots of them) with the options I want, so I think used would be easier to find in that case (if I don't go with the Edge).

Fortunately looks like I'll be waiting for all of them for the next year's model anyway to address some issues and things.

Our local Ford (we have lots) has all CPO with 7-year /70k powertrain warranty, so that's pretty good. Not b-to-b, but that can be added on.

I'm also wondering about leasing (essentially no money down and 0%?) and then buying at the end of the lease.

We'll see how much cash I can save up between now and then, too.

Update:

As someone suggested, I took a look at the Kia Sorenta (2016) SXL w/tech package (MSRP is like 45,000, so a tiny bit more than the Edge Titanium with 302a and Driver's Assist).

Again, initial test drive is mainly for noise levels and "smoothness" of ride.

The Sorento was the AWD Turbo unit, not the V6.

Vehicle is approx. size of my current vehicle and the Edge/Santa Fe Sport.

On the way to the dealership, I took the quickest route, and noticed my vehicle peaked at 80db (I was like: Damn, it's loud in here).

I took a ride in the Sorento (with the sales guy in the car) to my place of work (same route I've taken other vehicles), and on the way back, just happened to take the same route that I had that morning. Sorento peaked at 75db.

I would say (again, not yet based on objectivity) that the ride was a *little* rougher than the Edge, but comparable to the Nissan Murano and definitely smoother than the Hyundai and of course, WAY smoother than my car.

Some quick nice features I liked on the Sorento was the all around camera (like the Nissan), and the passenger side seat has height adjustments (Edge I think is the only other vehicle that does that). The driver's side had even more, (14-way) where you can adjust the very tip (where your thighs are at the end of teh seat) up and down, which I thought was VERY nice, as some cars in long hauls get a bit uncomfortable for me there.

I thought the controls were well placed (better than Murano and Edge--remember I did not test drive the Titanium, only the SEL). In Edge, I thought the placement of controls was the worst in that the bottom row is too close to the shifter (you have to snake your hand behind the shifter to get to the buttons). Murano was a little better in that regard than the Edge.

I didn't think the interior of the console was as "sleek/modern" as the Edge, but that's highly subjective.

Fuel economy was good.

Turbo had adequate power, although I think it had a slight bit of lag compared to the Edge and Hyundai, but I could be imagining it.

I am not sure about phone integration. There's a few Kia forums, but one is unable to register (they did a bad job where it asks you for like 3 items and then you click Register and it says you didn't fill out 2 items that arent' even there). I inquired there, but after a week have yet to receive any response. I have no idea if it supports Siri Eyes Free, or Android Auto/CarPlay.

Supposedly 2016 Kia Optima has those features, so it may be in the 2017 model.

5yr/10yr warranty is very good (like Hyundai), and significantly better (IMO) than Ford or Nissan. Consumer Reports indicates drivers satisfaction is highest among all the vehicles I've test driven and reliability is excellent.

Vehicle does have fog lights, but no remote start via cell phone app. No vehicle parking assist. I forgot to check about adaptive steering, but it does have lane departure, blindspot and adaptive cruise.

I'm keeping the Kia on my top finalist now.

I have a feeling I'll have to wait a year for things to work out in terms of Smartphone integration on all 3 of my top picks (Hyundai would be #4, it's not bad, but not as smooth and quiet, although cheaper as it's not $45k either).

If I had to choose today, it would be REAL tough.

I plan on doing one more run of test drives on the 3 finalists when the Titanium comes in so I can measure g-forces for smoothness (Titanium has 19" wheels and SEL had 18" which can make a difference).

I have the smartphone app on my phone: I got the entire cellular setup on eBay for cheap.

 

The $39 annual fee isn't bad (ok, solely my opinion).

 

I like that I can start my phone from anywhere and I also get texts and emails of the shock sensor or an open door triggers my alarm.

 

Just my $0.02.

So did you also have to purchase the Security Kit as well? I'll have to dig some more about the Titanium package. $39 is cheap, IMO. Hyundai bluLink is I think $6.95 or more a month.

Mainly because we have such cold winters here in NY, and the parking garage is about a quarter mile away, it'd be nice to have it nice and warmed up for my butt.

mjonis--I don't have the qualifications to answer your question about fog lights. However, I am planning on ordering a 2016 Edge, and I didn't notice them on the lists of what is on the 2016..... but you can check for yourself on this 2016 Edge Order Guide: (If it copies okay?)

 

Let's try this:

http://www.fleet.for...900cad98264f526

thanks! Nope, no fog lights in 2016 either. How odd. guess the Nissan site was correct when comparing to the Edge. I thought it was odd when Nissan listed that the Edge had no fog lights. Weird.

mjonis: My 3 finalists are with pros/cons are listed below.

 

Thank you, mjonis, for your work on arriving at the three finalists! I did similar work in arriving at them, plus the Kia Sorento..... but I didn't go as far as to put it down on paper to help others with their decisions. GOOD JOB! I've almost certainly--or just about-- arrived at the Edge as the winner..... and for two other reasons you didn't have. One is that this forum has lots to offer an Edge owner--lots of help! And the other is that Ford didn't take the bail out! My one purchase isn't much reward for a giant corporation, but it's about all I can do.

I didn't understand why you had MyFordTouch being replaced by Sync3 as a bad thing..... since that's one of my reasons for waiting for the 2016 Edge? Sync 3 is supposed to be the "Cat's Meow", and the "Be-all and end-all!" And as far as reliability..... the 2016 will have all those other complaints and deficiencies fixed. (he said, hopefully.) Thanks, again, for all your work, and for sharing. Jack

Oh good heavens, did I put MFT replaced with Sync3 as a con? If I did I think it was because that was for the 2015 model. In other words, if I bought the 2015 model, it was a con because I'd immediately have something "obsolete".

So I guess I should take a look at Kia. Hell, while I'm at it, let's test drive the 55k Lexus (haha). Can't afford it, won't buy it, but maybe I'll get to smell some more new cars. LOL!

Oh, I wish they had the 2016 out now. Now I'm getting that "new car" itch.

@mjonis, just some notes:

 

The Edge can be equipped with remote start via smartphone.

Sync3 is not confirmed to get Android Auto and/or Apple CarPlay. It is being said that it will, but unless you find a clear statement from Ford that Sync3 will include them or that it will be updated to include them, don't count on it.

If you are considering the V6 Murano, did you consider the V6 SantaFe & Edge?

Did you check the Kia Sonata? It is based on the same SantaFe platform (AFAIK).

The regular SantaFe was a smidgen too big (although I think it's only 2.something inches longer than the Murano) and it's V6 gets crap gas mileage (IMO) with AWD. And I don't need/want the third row seats. That's about my only other con (will have to re-adjust my list as well) on the Murano is that it's a tad longer.

The Twin Turbo Edge was more than enough power, so I didn't bother with the V6 test drive. I only test drove the Turbo on the Hyundai because I found the regular 4 cylinder to be not enough for me (but it's not bad for a 4 cylinder to be honest).

I checked Kia, but I can't remember why I initially skipped them. I Should probably consider them, although I think the Limited is what I'd have to take (at a minimum). Good points raised.

Keep 'em coming. I gots time for the 2016 models.

Thanks for the info. I forgot about CPO (didn't know it was called that until now). LOL! But it sounds like they'll tack some extra on, although 30k is about $12k cheaper than Trucar pricing if new. Of course there's no guarantee the vehicle I want with the features I want will come in off-lease. And I'd need one local enough to test drive (will not buy a car without taking it out for a spin). Thanks for the info though, it definitely helps!

Does the 2015 Ford Edge (Titanium) have a remote start feature via Smartphone App? I thought I saw a screenshot somewhere, but I can't seem to find it, so maybe I imagined it.

I'm looking for something similar to the Hyundai BlueLink, vs. the standard keyfob with the 300' range (or less).

I think the app is called:

Remote Access

?

All I can find is the ordering site on Ford that says it's compatible, but I've learned that "compatible" doesn't mean 100% all the features are there.

TY

Has anyone ever purchased an off-lease vehicle? I don't mean one that you leased and then purchased, I mean one where someonen else leased, turned in at end of lease, and then you bought it "off-lease"?

If so, is the residual value a good number to base potential price on? Or does the dealer take the residual price and tack on a little extra and then sell for something more?

I believe that the residual on the 2015 Edge is 56%

I'm still a ways out (especially with the 2016 models being delayed some more), but in our area, looks like a 2015 Ford Edge Platinum with 302a and tech package has MSRP of $42,995 and TrueCar of $41,246 (not much of a discount, IMO). If Residual is 56%, then I could theoretically wait 3 years (well probably closer to 4 by the time Ford comes out with the 2016) for $24,000

Although that's a tad longer than I'd like to wait.

Anyway, just mulling things through. $24k is a big price difference for waiting a few years (I'm guessing the 2-year lease is not very common).

Obviously "New" is easier, but more expensive. I'm a little surprised that the TrueCar pricing in my area (12205) is only about $1700 off MSRP compared to competitors. Altough Ford's NET pricing lists for under TrueCar's pricing (40,something). But I have a feeling the website lists incentives I'm not eligible for.

And I probably have to factor in if I buy used, I will need (well will want) an extended warranty, so that's a cost factor (plus my "trade-in/private party" will be half what it is now).

Yesterday I was able to test drive the 2015 Nissan Murano Platinum (AWD). It was fresh off the delivery truck and still had the plastic sticker stuff on the outside parts.

This is a V6 CVT so it has lots of power, and very smooth "shifting". Engine noise for CVT is extremely subdued compared to the 2 subaru's I test drove. I would say that it has slightly more engine noise than the Ford if you really punch it, and I didn't think it was quite as quiet, but the sound meter says otherwise and puts it on par with the Edge. Peak db was 76, with average around 75db (at highway speeds).

I thought it had a very smooth ride, but not quite as smooth as the Edge. Unfortunately I did not find the g-force/accelerometer app for my phone until after the test drive, so I don't have objective data for "smoothness".

Has all-around camera. I didn't think it had quite as much leg room in the back if the front seat was fully back, but I didn't actually measure. Seats seemed the most comfortable of all, but I'd need more "seat time".

EPA gas mileage looks good for a V6. No remote start (via phone--only keyfob which means you gotta be like 300 feet or closer).

I'm not terribly fond of the rear tail light styling where they stick out a bit. But then again, not terribly fond of the front hood on the Edge with the sculpting that comes out on the left-right either, but I would not classify eitiher vehicle as hideous/ugly.

However, after getting home, I did a little research for the smartphone/app support. Seems that Nissan in their infinite wisdom has decided that if you have Nav unit (which is what you get in the Platinum) they have purposely disabled all apps except for Google Search. Why? I don't know. The folks in the Nissan forums are not happy (I dont' blame them). Interestingly enough, on the 2016 Maxima and some other model, Nissan connect has remote start/app support.

So looks like I will be waiting for the 2016 Edge/Murano before I make a final decision.

My 3 finalists are with pros/cons are listed below. Note that I have not actually test driven the Edge Titanium with the 19" wheels. Only the SEL with 20" wheels. Sometimes the bigger tires give a stiffer ride. Murano has 20" tires (OK, rims to be technical). Murano is not as nicely equipped as Edge, and even though it has higher MSRP, it's trucar purchase is about $1500 cheaper than the Edge.

Realiability remains a concern (as previous poster pointed out I should consider reliability). 2015 Edge has some serious reliability issues (water leaking--yeah supposedly fixed now, cooled seats that actually heat up).

Hyunda Santa Fe Sport 2.0 Turbo AWD - with Ultimate package - MSRP $38,245 TrueCar - $35,554

Pros:

Good gas mileage

Doesn't require premium fuel

Decent Power w/turbo

Nicely equipped

nice interior styling

Nice exterior styling

Comfortable Seating

Remote start via cell phone (Hyundai BlueLink)

Excellent reliabilitly (consumer reports/carcomplaints.com reliability)

Excellent Warranty 5yr/10yr

Cheapest of finalists

Cons:

Not as quiet

Ride is more stiff

Smartphone integration is semi (no Android Auto and no CarPlay). Unsure of Siri Eyes Free.

Not as well equipped as Edge/Murano (allaround camera, adaptive cruise, lane departure, etc.)

2015 Nissan Murano Platinum AWD - w/tech package. MSRP - $43,745 TrueCar - $39,831

Pros:

Very smooth ride

Very quiet ride

Smooth shifting

Nicely equipped

Comfortable seating

Good gas mileage

Lots of power

Good interior Styling

Excellent reliability ratings (consumer reports/carcomplaints.com).

Cheaper than Edge

Cons:

Smartphone support non-existent. Maybe fixed in 2016 model year

Funky butt (tailight styling)

Average warranty (3yr/5yr)

More expensive than Hyundai

Not as fully featured/equipped as Edge

2015 Ford Edge Titanium AWD - w/302a package and driver's assist. MSRP $42,995 TrueCar - $41,246

Pros:

Very quiet ride

Very smooth ride

Very smooth shifting

Good gas mileage

Lots of Power

Interior styling (?)

Comfortable seating

Remote Start via cell phone (?)

Siri eyes-free and limited Android support

Nice Exterior Styling

Cons:

MyFordTouch being replaced with Sync3 in 2016 (Sync3 will have full Android Auto and Apple CarPlay)

Most expensive of all finalists

Average Warranty

Reliability issues - lots of carcomplaints.com and forums issues with 2015. ConsumerReports doesn't have enough data for 2015, predicting worse quality than previous year

 

Ford has never raised prices $3K on a similar model year to year. That's complete BS. They wanted to sell you a 2015 now.

 

I wouldn't expect more than a $500 increase on a similarly equipped vehicle, if that much.

Yeah, how does that old quote go?

If a salesman's lips are moving ....

LOL!

Thanks for the info. I don't think MFT has Android Auto and Apple Carplay support, and I think also that Ford says it's only offering 5 years of updates (so why buy a 2015 when you're going to keep it for 10+ years knowing that in 5 years no more updates).

But maybe things will change.

The Edge definitely has the best "ride" so far for everything.

I nixed the Subaru's mainly because the Outback won't accomodate the size of things I want/need to fit in the back. And it's too loud for me.

I'll see how the Murano is probably next weekend.

Hopefully I can find a device that objectively measure "bumpy" rides. Supposedly if you have an iPhone there's an app, but it's not on Android.

I'll ask in a separate post about Ford extended warranties.

I've got a 2005 Chevy Equinox LT AWD. Yeah, let's just say its the last GM I'll ever own. POS.

I'm looking at comparably sized vehicles. Based purely on specs, My original short list:

Subaru Outback (vs. Forester, as the Foerester is 3" shorter in length)

Hyunda Santa Fe Sport

I scratched Ford Edge off because of the crappy MFT. But then I heard Ford was replacing it in 2016, so I re-added it.

I plan to keep the vehicle for 15 years (I'm gonna keep mine for another 3, but I wanted to test drive now, so I can get a used vehicle that's off-lease and save about 12k).

Base:

2005 Chevy Equinox LT AWD (V6) with OnStar/Bose Premium.

Sound meter reports approx. 75-78db at loudest. Vehicle has relatively smooth ride and very smooth shifting, but loud road noise (probably due to different tires I put on a few years back).

Car #1:

2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0 base model

Base engine was loud (or so I thought) compared to my vehicle when accelerating. Base engine was louder than mine when accelerating and not as strong (the 2005 equinox is a V6). Could feel shift points and ride wasn't quite as smooth, but not as bad as a Toyota (stiffness). Average "high" sound 75-78db, usually during rapid acceleration.

Car #2

2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0 Turbo with Ultimate Package

Base engine seemed quieter (maybe becuase it didn't have to work so hard) and smoother shifting than Car #1. Still not as smooth a ride as Base. Average "high" sound: 75-77db, usually during rapid acceleration. Adequate power for acceleration.

Car #3:

2016 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited. Rather nicely apportioned/equipped. Has eyesight/adaptive cruise/pre-collision breaking whereas Hyundai does not. Seems like it sits about 2-3" lower than the Base. Trunk opening isn't as big as I need it (although didn't measure), so may reconsider original size criteria. Vehicle shifted smoothest of all the competitors so far. Proably due to CVT. LOUD road noise. Sounded like a wind problem around the A pillar or something. Average high db was 80-85db. Engine noise very loud (comparatively) when accelerating up a hill. Fairly smooth ride. Ironically, adequate power for acceleration. Probably the smoothest of all competitors so far. But due to engine/road noise and cargo opening, will look at Forester XT now (3" shorter or therabouts than Base, but approx. same height).

Car #4

2015 Ford Edge SEL (I wanted the Titanium with 302a and Driver's assist, but nobody had one around here). The most quiet and smoothest ride so far. Smoother than Base. Average "high" db was 67-73db. Very smooth shifting and similar "power" compared to the Base. Crappy MFT. Have to wait until 2016 for Ford Sync 3.

Car #5

Not yet, will be a Nissan Murano probably, or Toyota Highlander.

So my 2 "choices", if I had to pick so far:

Car #2. Car #3

MSRP of Car #2 is 35k, Truecar says I can get around 31k (new)

MSRP of Car #4: 43k. Trucar says I can get around 41k

So 10k more for the Ford Edge. Less warranty, lots more issues (compared to Car #2). Will have to examine 2016 Ford Edge when it comes out and decide if 10k more is worth a quieter/smoother ride. Although a lot of extra features. But tack on another $2500 for extended warranty ( to get longer bumper to bumper) and I'm not so sure $12,500 is worth it. Especially after seeing all the issues with the 2015 Edge. Wish I'd never bought my '05 Equiinox and had waited a year. Or more.

Residual on Hyndai is 59%. Residual on Edge is 56%. So figure a 3 year old vehicle would run about $21k for Hyundai and about 24k for the Edge. At that point, it's 3k difference (although Hyundai would still have 2 years left bumper to bumper and 7 years left on powertrain. Edge wouldn't have anything left on bumper to bumper and only 2 years left on powertrain).

3k difference for smoother ride/quiet? That may be worth it.

Granted, Edge fully equipped has a LOT of extra features (drivers assist, adaptive cruise control, etc).

We'll see how the Murano and/or Toyota goes. (last time I test drove a Highlander was 2005 and the ride was very stiff and in order to get heated leather seats, I had to spend 35k vs. 25k for the Chevy).

So I did a test drive of a 2016 Subaru Forester XT. And a Ford Edge 2015 SEL (nobody around here has a Titanium in stock).

The subaru engine was LOUD compared to the edge. Around 80db according to my sound meter. Vehicle was nowhere near as nicely apportioned (not even blind spot detection is available) compared to the Edge.

However, I did like that the cargo area/back seats had rubber/plastic covering on them so that if you fold them down you don't have to worry about scuffing up the cargo area.

The ride (trying to get an accelerometer/gravity thingy to more objectively measure) was more stiff than the edge.

Although the Forester was quieter than the Outback 2.5i Limited. Good grief, that thing was the noisest. LOTS of wind noise/engine noise. Almost 85db.

However, after reading all the issues on the 2015 Edge, I'd probably reconsider something else. Or wait for the 2016 Edge. Also, I had compared the 2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0 Turbo (fully equipped). I'd take the Hyundai over the Forester (quieter, more features, IMO). But based purely on ride/feature I'd take the Edge over the Santa Fe. If money were no object (Edge Titanium with 302a and Driver's assist omes in about 8k more MSRP than Hyundai, but you have to factor in 10/5year warranty vs. Ford's anemic 5/3 warranty).

So ARE there fog lights on the 2015? I couldn't see any other than aftermarket installs. We get fog here a lot and they DO make a difference, IMO. Although I won't get a 2015. IF I get one, it'll be a 2016 model.

Wel,l looks like the price will probably go up if they're moving some items out of 302a (heated steering wheel) on Titanium into an "optional" cold weather package now. Great.

Although dunno if the Dealer was pulling my leg by saying the 2016 was going to be about 3k more than the 2015 (Titanium Edge with equivalent packages). I told 'em I'm going to wait for the 2016 because of the MFT/Sync3 changes.