Kanatronic

I got the same story. "Discoloration looks NORMAL". They suggested using the FORD Sylvania bulb instead of what I used to replace them with (autozone LL replacement). I bought the bulb from the service counter and replaced it in their parking lot. I put the receipt in the glove box and when it blows again I can take it to the service department and try to convince them there is a problem. Sheesh Normal burning discoloration. While true does not make it right.

Use LEDs man, I gave up long time ago, it seems that they will not bother to fix that problem, ordering better sockets, so we are stock to LEDS...

I just posted in a new thread, but if you want LEDs without the fast clicking (bulb out warning), all you have to do is ask your dealer to turn OFF the bulb out warning in the Smart Junction Box. If one of your LEDs goes out, you won't be notified with the bulb out warning though. If you're like me and you check your bulbs all the time, this shouldn't be an issue.

 

BTW the bulbs I'm using are from www.v-leds.com. So far they have been the best quality aftermarket LEDs I have found.

Be careful and consider that Ford as far as I know, do not approve the use of other bulbs other than the ones they sell, they even refused to honor the warranty while I requested to replace mine with nightbreakers that are exactly the same bulb scpecs, just different manufacturer and of course better light. They were exactly the same watage and same socket, and they stated in the receipt that they do not warranty the wire harness, so telling them to turn off the warning becasue you want to use leds, will render to a situation that I do not want to be in, and voiding the warranty in all the backlighting system...

I have been using LEDs for a while, and I will no go back, that is the only way to keep those sockets clean...period...

Yes, the Premium System in the Limited includes a 8" subwoofer in the right rear quater panel.

 

 

 

OK! Thank you for your feedback. I am releived to know your opinion parallels my thoughts. I just wasn't sure. I ask you since you own DLS speakers but I have never heard them. Read many fine reviews about them from the EU and the US. I like the way silk dome tweeters sound and the fact that the dome design provides better imaging.

 

I have installed Infinity Reference and Kappa 6x8" in my other vehicles. I have found the References to be very good and the Kappas to be a bit boomy. However, both were an improvement over the factory "Premium" sound system. Always in search for something better I'll give DLS a try.

 

So, now that you have had your DLS-457's for some time now, how do you like them over others you have had in the past?

DLS is a different league from Infinity, DLS is the same league as the top of the line speakers: Skan Speak, Dynaudio, Morel, Vifa, Focal, Seas, etc...Tome the DLS are as refined and as good sounding as a car speaker could be...I have tried other brands and they marginally an improvement, some of the stock speakers nowadays are amde by good manufacturers BTW...

Another test, if you have not spent money yet and want to give a shot with no money spenditures, do this, remove the stock ones, and cut the grill in front of them, you will see they are enclosed in plastic grill by default, cut the one that is attached to the speaker, put them back and test them again, trust me that they are not that bad, the draw back that made them sound dull was that they are double grilled, one in front of the speaker, and then the grill from the door, no speaker can sound good if they are behind a curtain of plastic...Of course in comparison to the DLS they are not in the same league, but they are in the same of many others....

I have the Edge Limited (Premium Sound / 9 speakers in 7 locations) which has tweeters in the A-pillar. I planned on placing the MS6A 6.5" mid-bass drivers in the front doors and its associated UP1C tweeter in the A-pillar.

 

My main concern was the sensitivity (92dB front & 93dB rear) and frequency range differences (45-20KHz front & 55-20KHz rear) between the proposed front MS6A's and rear 457's respectively. Supposing my installation is physically possible, in your opinion would these pair up well soundwise?

Sound wise yes, and first I will explain you a little bit about the frequencies: Not sure how the amp in the Edge Limited was designed, but if they included a sub-woofer, most probably they are cutting the freq on the doors around 100Hz mark with a crossover inside the amp, and transferring all the freqs from 100Hz to around 20Hz to the sub-woofer, that is at least what I would do if I were to design it (and even 45Hz, being honest, is a tough figure for a 8" sub-woofer as we have there installed, and probably we are not even getting 45Hz from the sub-woofer neither) and in my opinion there is absolutely no need to waste energy in giving an speaker a freq they can not handle properly, only to create more distortion. As far as I know, and maybe I'm wrong on this, but I have not seen any 6.5" driver in the market, that can handle 45Hz inside a door of a car properly, and even inside a more efficient box, and in a far better geometry, will be really hard for them...55Hz is a more conservative figure, but even though, hard for an small speaker. But 45Hz definitely is a very low Freq, if you look at the specs of any powered sub-woofer nowadays, home or car, that is around the freq they will go...(Not saying that is the way to design a sub-woofer, to me any sub-woofer should go at least to 20Hz clean, but I do not design them...and sometimes if space is an issue you have no other option, drivers of 8", 10" usually do not that low neither...)

Now 93, 92db they are all very high sensitivities both, I hardly believe that you will hear any difference as most probably they are misrepresenting them anyway in the specs....and 1DB if I'm not mistaken was set some time ago, as the minimal change in loudness than a human can perceive, so in case they were 100% accurate, being the more sensitive in the back they will be a little louder, which is not bad, as they will be far from your ears....but I do not believe you will hear any difference honestly, this number is not an absolute parameter, they are dependent on the geometry, and placement also, grill covering the front, way of measuring it, noise around, etc......

Hey Kanatronic you still around? I have a question regarding mixing two DLS speaker model series.

Do the following two speaker series look like they will match well as replacements in our Edge?

__________

 

FRONT Door: DLS Reference series MS6A, 6.5" 2-way components - http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_70

 

Sensitivity 92 dB (1W/1m)

Frequency range 45 - 20.000 Hz

 

Detailed specs: MS6A mid-bass driver http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_428

Detailed specs: UP1C tweeter http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_144

__________

 

REAR Door: DLS Performance series 457, 2-way coaxial 5x7" - Specs http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_97

 

Sensitivity 93 dB (1W/1m)

Frequency range 55 - 20.000 Hz

__________

 

DLS Reference series MS6A

 

DLS Performance series 457

In the place the Edge has the speakers located you will not get any benefit going separates, that is for sure, and why you want to mix two different kind of speakers, why not using two pairs of the 457's, as I did. That will be a direct replacement even size-wise, and will be a nice upgrade soundwise as well (???)

I will hesitate to use separates in the Edge, separates will work wonders if they are placed in the front panel, or in top of the dashboard, but not in the doors, and even less so low, anyplace close to the front panel will be the best place. To place them in the doors, unless a customized work facing front, with some angle, will be the same as using coaxials, and the benefits of having them separate to create a better soundstage will be defeated. Also the 6.5 will not fit without doing some work on the door holes, as the hole from the factory is eliptical. The 6.5 and tweeters are indeed a better option, but you need to place them in a different way, if you place the woofers in the hole of the doors the tweeter should be in another place, I will sugest to look for some place in the front of the vehicle panel, otherwise if you place them in the sides you will end with the same performance of the 457's...

Still no recos...I htink that I'm the only one that feel that the horns in the edge are not so loud, so let's keep on waiting for a guinea pig that want to replace them....let's get in the meanwhile a hand air horn and period...

I have already posted on this in a seperate post, but there is a special tool from ford and no this is not a simple drain and fill or flush procedure. this is much much more involve and will take a couple of hours.

Yes it is more complicated than a simple flush, but even though ZapLub will do it in less than 45 minutes, one hour tops. They have done that in the past to some of my vehicles, they have the "special tools" to do it, basically is a compresor with a filtered chamber at the end, the fluid is reverse circulated under presure and filtered in that chamber to remove the contaminats, similar to the one used in the oil flush, then once the flow is estable for a few minutes and all particles have been removed from the ducts, they flush it with water, and replace the whole fluid with fresh one. Unless the edge is completelly different ot any other vehicle created to the date, and the cooling system is unique, there is no such a thing of an special tool, unless the connectors or adapters they use to hook the machine to the system are called that way, and if that is the case, then those "special tools" should be at the delaer unless they have lost theirs, as they come with the machine they have for regular flushes...

Basically the diminish performance according to what I was told by them, and have read, it due to some rust deposits on the system, the particles partially obstruct the flow and then you know the rest, the flush will remove them for good (or make them worst) but certainly is the first step, if the rust and deposits are removed, the new clean fluid will do the work and you may have no more problems...

Here are some videos on how to do it yourself...

Guys have you ever seen how a flush is done, professionally? Well basically the fluid will push the air out, that is not a problem, simplifying it, in order to do a flush you open the valve and the base of the radiator, and let the fluid come out, then replace the fluid with water, and then with a machine they have, some kind of pressure machine, or pump (that BTW all mechanics may have, specially the dealers) they keep on pumping water in the system, and filtering it, they start the car to use also the pump of the car, that will eventually remove all residual fluid replacing it with clean water and pumping out all residues from the oxidation that get trapped at the filter, later on they let the water come out the same way and replace it with the right fluid...period...

It looks more complicated of what indeed it is...

The problem is that my dealer is waiting for a special tool. I have been waiting for the dealer to do a flush for 2 weeks. The dealer promised that they would get the tool from Ford by the end of the year. The problem is that the daytime temperatures have been around -25 to -30 and the vehicle is freezing inside. Ford has F_ckup again big time. Ford Quality is crap.

 

Ford - Don't Sell Crap

 

Can't they do something to escalate this? Like couriering this tool to the dealers? Providing me a loaner or something?

 

www.twitter.com/smokinedge

www.twitter.com/freezinedge

 

Gary

You can find problems in pretty much any car out there, even very expensive ones, the main problem is the care they take after the problem is detected to solve it, that in our case seems to be a not very efficient procedure, how much will cost Ford to replace and flush all those vehicles, a recall will be far better, sorry that is coolant, $15.00 for two gallons or so!!!!

If I were you I would take the car to another dealer, with a letter stating what to do, there is no such a thing of "special tool" to do a flush, they do it daily there probably, you can do it with a garden hose in your driveway, that is total BS. Probably they are waiting to receive the right revised coolant or any other thing, also IIRC the intake conducts have to be replaced as well, but a flush is thing that can be done in half an hour is any ZAP lube around you....

The problem is not with the heater core at all, and AFAIK any heater core from any vehicle will be in the same condition if you used that coolant they used. The problem was with the fluid they used in the vehicles manufactured before April 2008, it seems that fluid for some error was out of specs, lacking of some ingredients or anti-corrosive ingredients or God knows what!!! according to the dealer I took mine for a checkup, and was corroding the heater cores and some other parts, non replaceable, as probably the engine block as well. They sent a letter stating that if you have diminish performance (the difference between the two central vents in temperature should be 15 degrees, they have also a chemical kit to test the fluid, otherwise they consider it is working fine) you should take it to the dealer and follow the protocol, first the flush, and replace the coolant with a revised one, after that the heater core should not have any problems, anyway they extended as stated above the warranty for 6 years or 105,000 miles, (that in my case makes no difference after purchasing the warranty for 6 years...) it will be good to force them at least to perform the flush in all vehicles as a recall...

Securinu, sorry to be rude, but if you read my posts, I never asked any questions about the relay or how to do the wiring, please read before posting, put in drive your brain before your hands...

My questions were only about which horns are louder than the stock ones, and if someone have any experience in the Edge, what seems to be not the case of any of the posters, as none of them have any experience replacing the horns in the Edge, we do not even know what value are they rated. All experience posted have been related to other vehicles, bigger than the Edge, with different horns. I got recommnedations of air horns, and even while I agree that those may be louder, sorry guys, again, I do not want to get into air horns, easier to install or not, I do not want air horns, some guys like american cheese, some like swiss, and some like provalone, I do not like air horns, preference period, I do not feel that there is any part of this statement so hard to understand, right?

Now, I do know how to wire a horn, and which relay to use, and with AWG to use safely, simply I do not want to replace the stock circuit, too much trouble for me, I was just trying to see if the stock circuit could be used to install any aftermarket electric horn similar but louder, or maybe another set of the same horns...period...

Secirinu, I have 6 years warranty in my car, the dealer will take care of any problem if I need to, so I do not have any use for air tools in my car. On top I do have a compressor in case any flat arises, so I have no use for a compresor for the tires neither...

your kidding right, I do this for a living everyday. i see the fires that people create in there own cars from "Yo everything is wired right but it dont work" Now just being devils advocate here how do you figure that manufactures put in wire for double what they need because wire is cheap?

 

Have you not seen the price of copper over the past few years or heard of houses that are empty getting gutted of their copper wire and copper pipes?

 

when was the last time you saw a manufacture spend one penny more than they absolutely have to for anything in the manufacture process?

 

You can wire it any way you want its your car and maybe you will get away with it but is it worth less than $10 in parts to skimp on it. If so then forego the wire harness from the dealer if it even is available at all .all it is on the horns is male spades sticking out just use 2 females connectors and wire. oh and while you at it might want to buy a fire extinguisher to save the family from the potential fire.

OK let's set this straight, my first question was if anybody had done any horns replacement, or know of any aftermarket electric horns, to replace the ones we have for louder ones, if you said that you do this for a living, as I have no intentions of arguing, and if your only intention is to offer a valid input why not offering a recommendation that a person that does that or a living should know...as you also own an Edge and know for sure what kind of horns you have installed...I have not received yet any reco that i could use other the air horns or vintage horns that God knows where to get, maybe junk yard or the like...

Kempie to have a 2volts drop from the alternator to the headlight due to bad wiring, the wire have to be hair thin, or maybe all rusted, or in a very bad condition, or you have a resistor on the way, there is no way that any wire could produce a drop of two volts in that short distance, use a little math and physics there man!!!

Guys I was an audio dealer for years, I still once in a while work in audio, so I have some basic knowledge of electronics, and I do believe that you are complicating too much what a circuit for a horn is, a horn a relay and some wires does not have too many way of getting wrong, and I can tell you for sure, and I do not want to sound selfish, that any of us could wire a horn with closed eyes. Them problem is not to do it, is that I do not want want to make this a lifetime scientific project, and do it as quickly and as simply as possible, without going any further in the process and need to do any extra work if I could use the existing circuit, of course I'm not stupid and if the case is that I can not, due to the need of going in other details the project will die right there...

Now as an example the wires used in the horn by simple inspection are the same AWG that the ones we use in the head-lights, any bulb is rated to 65 watts, some 55watts, do you really believe than any electric horn that is used for less than three seconds, will blow a wire rated over 65watts for continuous use, is the real power at the horn over 65watts, in other words is the horn able to draw 6A from the battery(???) As I said before and as I have no clue right now, I will measure it, but I do not think so...

I second what securinu already said.. add another horn set, get ready to wire and add relay to do it right, not piggy back your existing wiring harness

 

but more interesting is that there is no guarentee "installing another set on the left side, that will for sure double the loudness" - on the contrary, this could have adverse effects unless you do your due diligence. unless you use a set that works with the tone/notes of your current horn, you could end up getting something taht when fired togther, sounds like a disaster. this is exactly why there are generally 2 horns of 2 different notes. if fired alone, they are weak, but when fired together, they work in tandem to create a range that works. you go arbitrarily adding a second set of horns and ughhh it could be a mess

 

you are a prime candidate for air horns, you want LOUD, and if your going to say you want the path of least resistance, but then talk about adding a second set of horns, and then about sourcing out relays and wire harness, etc... just get a darn air horn kit and get on down the road with it - you could have had air horns in by now and disconnected the stock horns and been blasting to your hearts desire

Lex a second set of "stock horns" for sure will have the same freq and notes of the ones we already have install, it is not that I will get the first horns I will find to install them...they have to be alike of course I know that, otherwise the mixing of the freq will end as you said in a not louder but even "less attractive" sound. Adding the same exact horns, will double the loudness (double loudness means just adding 3db more, not that you will have 300db, OK?), you are adding them in parallel, so the sound will be exactly the same in all four, unless you have a catastrophic close to the specs design, that nobody does, of course current will be double as the voltage is the same 12volts, and you are drawing more current, that is simple physics...All get's to the point of measuring and see if we can add them the way they are right now...

BTW all our the wiring on a vehicle is at least double of the designed AWG for the current, at least...Not because they over-designed, just because wire is very cheap and any decent gauge wire will support the currents we will have there, so not need to skim on that. So no adverse effects, of course all will be measured, if I have to find and replace relays, that will be the end of the project as I do not want to mess with electronics that will void the warranty just by simple visual inspection...

The aftermarket ones, considering that Ford for years have used several aftermarket manufacturers of their horns, FIAM, Stebel, etc...are not in any way, a warranty that any you can get will sound louder, at least not any electric ones, we have online several articles of actual measurements of those horns, and they all lie on the claimed db values, including FIAM, Stebel, and many of them, the differences are not even small, in the order sometimes of 50db, I'm talking of actual measurements in front of car, not in an echoic chambers....Sorry but I do not like the air ones, first the hassle of the installation and second they do not sound right to me, the notes they choose are not very nice...Some are too brithgt the other are too deep, like a boat...

you will need another relay and power to it you wont be able to piggy back from the other set.

Fuse is rated to 20A, relay must be at least 30A, the relays those guys sell is mainly for bikes, not for SUVs, I do not think that both sets will go over 20A, not even over 15A, but I will measure first the one I have across the fuse with multimeter, and as logic indicates double will be double of current...

Given that I was not able to find any loudest horn till now, I decided that instead, and given that our vehicle horns are just on the right side, why not installing another set on the left side, that will for sure double the loudness, but I may require a wire harness for that purpose, I do not want to be "creative"...does anybody knows the part number for the horn wire harness, to see if at least I could get the connectors...???

The ones I listed are still valid (till yesterday...)

Also I do not think that anybody will order parts blindly, you usually call ask for the price, sometimes ever bargain the price, and they will give you the part number for your VIN, this list is just as a reference, to see for example if one part that you saw listed somewhere, and you are interested on it, will fit your vehicle. Also if they are discontinued, unless for any defect, a recall etc...in which case they do a major replacement, to avoid the use of the old ones again, the old always work, just that they are not longer available, as probably they change a supplier or so...

Let's add a few more:

Cargo management, side plastic pieces:

7T4Z-78115A00*A (left side)

7T4Z-78115A00*B (right side)

7T4Z-7845026*AA (wheel cover)

All weather floor mats:

7T4Z-7813300*AA (four piece set)

7T4Z-6111600*AA (cargo mat)

Kick plates:

7T4Z-7820879*BA (panel Asy)

7T4Z-7813208*AC (door scuff)

Stock "audiophile" radio:

8T4T-18C815*DC

Cross Bars:

7T4Z-7855100*BA (Kit)

Rear Tailights lens:

7T4Z-13404*B

7T4Z-13405*B

Socket assembly (the ones that burn all the time)

2U5Z-13411*DA

TPS sensors:

6F2Z-1A193*E (kit)

Rims:

8T4Z-1007*E (painted rims)

For what is worth now, the Edge has indeed two horns, but they are one on top of the other (rather the standard configuration of one on each side) both are on the right side facing front, and looking from the inside of the vehicle, both are attached in a Y metal piece very easy to remove and replace BTW...connectors are as usual proprietary that need to be replaced and removed...

I would like to do a simple installation, nothing complicated, if posible a plug an play, something like replacing the original ones with a new set, using the same spot, we do not ahve too much room on the edge front anyway to play with...

Does anybody had done any actual installation on an edge that we can see the pistures...???

get something like this and you can have musical horns, record your own, or have a PA to yell at people

 

anyway, I have replaced horns - as yes, there are 2 in your car, a high and low on opposite sides of the radiator area typically. I replaced on in my FJ40 for air horns... no missing them, but it has a Chevy 350 so loud engine to overcome.

 

tapping into your current horn relay/wiring is really the tricky part.

 

can't recall seeing anyone here yet do horn swap

Not that kind, man!!! Be srious...

I'm talking of something louder, but still rational, air horns are a bit tricky and on top they need a compressor that honestly I do not want ot mess with that...

Something like a bullhorn, or those Hella loud ones

It seems that I have not been able to find any thread discussing that, I was wondering if anybody had replaced the horn with a beefy one. It seems that people is getting retarded by day where I live, specially the kids while crossing the streets, yesterday i found was skating along the traffic with some earbuds all the way in and with a music so loud that I could hear it inside my car, and to have an extra loudness little help will definitely at least piss them off...

Any idea of location, and one that may fit, without getting fancy in air horns or the like, maybe a musical one.....

I got this letter from the owner of a professional injector cleaning company (Gordon from Whitch Hunter Services) while I asked about some kind of preventive maintenance, the site is full of really useful information, and be aware that this answer is somewhat taking partially his business, so honestly I trust the guy, and it seems that indeed Chevron is one of the best out there, hope this helps:

"....Thanks for the comments on the site as I spent a lot of time over the past 6 years working on the site, as time permits. It is looking a bit dated and there is much more I would like to add to it, but the 100 hour work weeks prevent doing much to it. But comments such as yours remind me that some folks actually take the time to read it.

There are so many injector cleaners out there with prices ranging from 99 cents to $25 and I find it hard to believe there is that much of a difference between them to justify the cost of some. I, myself use Chevron's Techron about three times a year in my vehicles and some Heet, (a moisture remover) about twice a year. I always follow the directions, since to high a concentration of them could be damaging to seals, the injector coil windings, and possibility other things.

I choose this routine because I bought a 95 Corvette from a friend, (who purchased it new) years ago and he that is what he did, with the addition of using Mobil1 synthetic oil. At 70K miles I pulled the engine down for adding lots of high performance parts, (cam, heads, etc) and was amazed on how clean the internals were. It looked like it had less than 1000 miles on it. The injectors were in good shape, back of the intake valves were clean, the lifter valley was clean enough to eat of of after w wipe down with a clean rag.

I was very impressed since this was the first time the valve covers had been removed.

The EPA has made most all the gas stations replace their leaky tanks, so that is a plus to our cars and environment..."

Looking for some factory crossbars, I found some on ebay, but I asked the settler if they come with the T shaped things to attach them to the rails. The ones he is selling apparently do not.

 

My question is are these sold separate, or do the T shaped things come with the rails?

They come with the rails, also the bolts, and the key to tight them...

Couple of questions about this tailight problem. The bulb that is recommended on this forum is a Wagner bulb in a 14 volt configuration.

Wouldn't that bulb be dimmer? I was able to find that same bulb in a 12 volt configuration. Would it burn brighter but therefore burn hotter and cause the

same problems? Also, why don't they make an LED replacement that has the load resistor built into it for proper operation ( blink speed )? I would like to

go with the LED light but don't see where there would be room for a load resistor in the brake light area. Certainly don't want to get under the dash and wire

something in there. Any input appreciated.

Daniel Sterns recommends the 14V version, not the 12V, the 14V is better in terms of durability and design, as it was designed for all day work...also it runs cooler, but regardless they will burn the sockets again, the problem is the sockets not the bulb you will use, the material is not good enough and is not designed to handle that heat...

About the LED problem, the resistor gets real hot, the load in a lamp is almost 0 ohms, so these R's are around 3-6 ohms, and it need to dissipate all that energy in heat, doing a quick math from my recalls in school:

I= V/R and P=I x V

so in order to handle around 4A (or 2A in the case of 6) , it should be able to be safe at 50Watts, or 25watts in the case of 6ohms resistor, minimum...Those R are big in size, usually bigger than the bulb itself, as they are made of winded wire encased on ceramic...usually.