Brian K

In my manual somewhere (I think it was a Shop Manual) , Ford recommended that 3 Drain & Fills be performed and that qualifies are a Tranny oil change. So lets see - 1st D&F - results in 50% new & 50% old fluid. (assuming that a drain gets 50% of the fluid out) 2nd D&F- results in 75% new & 25% old 3rd D&F - results in 87.5% new & 12.5% old Seems reasonable I guess - better than not doing it but it sure would be nice to have all the old sh!t out! I never did change the filter because of the difficulty - no bottom removable drain pan but seemed to required disconnecting some electrical stuff etc. Silly to have this sort of design (or maybe I got it wrong).

I have an 08 Lincoln (an Edge with lipstick) and wouldn't buy another. In no particular order of what I don't like... 1) I find the seats uncomfortable and have caused severe back issues on 2 occasions. 2) I dislike the headrest angle compared to my other vehicle a GMC Envoy. It feels like its angles too far forward and on long trips my neck hurts. 3) The heated seats automagically switch off after 15 minutes. I like my butt warm and I'll decide when to shut the heat off. Took it to the dealer and they say they can't change the Auto Off option. 4)) I dislike the way addresses are entered into the Nav unit - but now I use my phone. Voice commands never did work and Ford admit their arrangement with Microsoft for that bit of software was lacking and have apparently moved to Blackberry. (I miss my BB). 4) The NAV maps are not being updated anymore. I have the 13P version from a few years ago but they are out of date. So Google maps are it generally now. 5) I also don't like that they never did address the PTU issue. (I drilled a hole and do regular PTU oil changes.) 6) I've had tranny shifting issues. 7) That 'courtesy wipe" that the wipers do (1 more wipe) after you shut them off. That screws up the timing of spray and wipe to clean the windshield. So No - I wouldn't buy another Edge although I do like the look and the size (and perhaps any other Fords too) because of other issues I've had with a Mustang that Ford Service advisors just laugh at - like the 2 piece spark plug's that can break off in the head when removed - $1000 to fix if they all break!!! And the aluminum hoods that corrode on the front lip because of a manufacturing problem - but it doesn't perf in the warranty period so they don't address it. Their soluton is to paint the hood but that doesn't stop the initial cause of the corrosion so it continues.

I never did replace the vent because I couldn't get the old one out. You could try going to a tranny shop and ask them to save you a failed PTU and see what that one looks like and perhaps you can make something work or clean your old vent.

Mine doesn't a vent line as some newer ones do but has what I call a 'jiggly valve' on top of the PTU - similar to what I have on my GMC Envoy rear axle to vent the pressure. It is a little 1/2" thing (for lack of a better word sorry) that screws into the PTU. Installed in the vehicle, you can feel it if you reach up around the top of the PTU. I couldn't take mine out and really couldn't see it. If the goo in the PTU is puking out that vent, then replacing the oil in the PTU a number of times, might help your situation. Mine looks something like this: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-OEM-NISSAN-REAR-AXLE-REPLACEMENT-BREATHER-TUBE/282540044556?hash=item41c8b2f10c:g:3XEAAOxyLchRr7HE&vxp=mtr

I drilled a hole in the bottom of the PTU and did a drain and fill about 6 times (drain/fill/drive a bit) to flush the old black sludge out. Once I used transmission fluid as a solvent. Still getting some sludge out but it is becoming less and less. Now I only use the 75W140 and each time I filled it to the fill hole level. Now the fluid is staying cleaner. Mine was also quite low when I first stated this but am confident that filling it to the bottom of the fill hole is the right thing to do. I don't have any leaks or any puking out the vent either. I also got a used PTU from a tranny shop just so I could take it apart to see what is inside - just gears and LOTS of sludge. I change my PTU oil (myself) every 2nd engine oil change. Initially before I put in the drain, I tried sucking out the old fluid but had a really hard time getting the sucker hose far enough inside the PTU fill hole. Even sucking a bit out and topping it up with clean oil has to be better than just leaving the old black sludge in it. I always remember that it's cheaper to change oil than parts!

Hi Steve Did you do it yet? We're waiting! lol

Those parts should work. You need to also get a quart of intestinal fortitude as well to drill that pilot hole! Once that is done, you're committed and it will get done! Hopefully you'll document your project and show us pic's!

Hi Steve I know what you mean about getting the right parts. What I did was go to an autoparts place and told them what I wanted to do and got all the parts there so all would fit together - basically 3 things - a tap, drill bit and a plug. The hole size is 1/4" NPT. If you buy the tap that size, the tap package will tell you (probably) what size drill bit to use - or the parts guy should be able help. Get a small bit to start the hole (say 1/8") because it is easier to drill a pilot hole first. By the way, NPT is National Pipe Thread and it is used because it is tapered and when you thread the plug in, it will eventually tighten up and seal - not like a nut and bolt type of thread. When tapping the hole, don't 'tap too far into the PTU - just enough to get some good threads but not so far as to hit anything inside the PTU. When drilling the pilot hole, be really careful that you don't 'wiggle' the bit and break it off - just take it easy with the hole drilling. Good luck.

Here is a picture with a plug in the drain.

Here is a picture of the drain hole. Hopefully this might help others in locating where to drill the hole.

Here is a picture of the extension I added to the OEM heat shield.

Hey Steve - Why not DIY! I put in a drain hole myself by following pictures/recommendations in various PTU posts. There is one post/picture showing dimensions from various PTU landmarks. I started by using a small drill bit and allowing all the oil to drain out once it went through. I drilled slowly so the bit wouldn't penetrate too far into the PTU. You can tell when you're through because oil starts to come out - which helps clean the area of any debris from drilling. Then once drained, I used a larger bit (sized for a 1/4" pipe thread Tap - it's tapered so the plug fits tight) and drilled slowly. Once through, I used a bent Q-tip to clean the inside area of any loose aluminum filings that may have been deposited there from drilling. Then I tapped the hole and again cleaned the inside very carefully with a bent Q-tip until I was satisfied that it was free of aluminum cuttings from the drilling and tapping. Then I installed the plug, and filled drove and drained number of times to clean the sludge out. If you are at all handy it's not hard - just takes some intestinal fortitude to drill the first hole LOL.

PerfA - I can't say whether or not the extra shield has made a difference because now since I put in the drain, I change the oil regularly - every 2nd engine oil change. It is still coming out dirty but I think this is because it is still cleaning the sludge out that is in pockets in the PTU. No failure yet so changing the oil seems to be helping. I added the extra shield because of what others said about cooking the oil due to heat and of course I prefer to change oil than parts. I suppose a high temperature oil would help longevity considering the oil seems to turn to goo and that seems to be a result of overheating the oil beyond its temperature spec. Couldn't hurt.

I also installed a heat shield made from a piece of tin and mounted it between the exhaust and the PTU - basically a larger shield than the OEM one. From many previous posts, the consensus was that the reason these things fail is from extended heat soakings from the exhaust which is very close by thereby cooking the oil and causing it to get thicker and thicker and not providing any lube to the bearings. After a while, it starts to puke from the vent and oil on the garage floor is the first sign most people get that the PTU has a problem. By then it is too late. The PTU is just an expensive gearbox which really should last forever - but not with gooey oil that has boiled off. Poor lube and it doesn't have a chance. I generally change the oil every 8000 miles and all has been good - so far and that was 4 years ago. Perhaps too frequent (?). I drilled a drain hole and threaded it. Initially I tried to suck it out from the fill hole but there was interference in getting the little sucker tube in and i didn't get much out. I somewhat doubt that a shop could do much better sucking it out. A drain is the way to go because you get to flush the crap out. I have been using Castrol 75W140. Yes the other more expensive oils would probably be marginally better, but I prefer more frequent changes. A friend says "You have to change oil or change parts - and oil is much cheaper". Good advice.

If they acknowledged the problem, they might have to come up with a solution! And then all those with failed PTU's would want Ford to replace them for free! Accountants would poo-poo that - so history repeats itself - don't correct or acknowledge the problem. Same as the aluminum hood corrosion issue on Mustangs. No problem (to Ford) because it isn't perforation in the warranty period. I wonder how the aluminum F150's will hold up. Will history be repeating itself again maybe???? Is that deja deja vu?

I'll bit! What is ROTFLMAO?

# phases of a company: 1) Built by Technical people (remember RCA's slogan - Quality goes in before the name goes on!) 2) Run by Accountants (too many MBA's yapping about shareholder value and EBITDA) 3) Shut down by Lawyers. You pick the Root Cause! Why Ford can't put a PTU drain in and recommend oil change intervals just amazes me! Most everything else with bearings and oil requires oil changes. (#1 above) (well maybe not those muffler bearings lol) But really all it has to do is last to the end of the warranty (#2 above). They have been building cars for a hundred years. How about learning from previous mistakes - but that might mean admitting you had a problem? (#3 above)

Those 'sources' must be a national security secret lol. Maybe Wikileaks eventually.

Most manufacturers recommend changing all fluids at prescribed intervals - including brakes, transmissions, rear diffs (RDU), and transfer cases (PTU's). And in my manual and at the dealership they do reference regular maintenance fluid changes of all sorts. Even the local dealership shop foreman agreed that changing the PTU fluid was a good idea and he wondered why Ford did recommend it. But you're right about a few things - there are things that don't show up in the manual for fluid changes like the A/C lines, ball joints. U-joints and muffler bearings. Apparently you agree with this 'hands off' approach and that may work for you - but it doesn't for me. But if you look at aftermarket control arms etc, they usually come with greasable bushing for longevity. How do I know that the new PTU's are or aren't better than the old ones - by reading the forums and hearing of others frustrating experiences. Of course the really new ones are not mentioned because if they fail, they would be covered by warranty and I doubt if there are any public stats on that. I went into a local Ford dealership parts department and asked to see a PTU so I could have a look at the vent to see if I could remove it easily which it was in the vehicle. He looked one up and said they are a pretty standard part number across multiple platforms and said "oh we have 3 of them in stock - I guess we go through lots of them that's why we have so many". From that I surmised they are a high failure item. Could you please possible explain what the 'good authority' you have it on, that makes you so certain that the PTU fails based on a one time heating event?

Re broken spark plugs - yes - they did change the head design in late 2007 so they didn't have to use the 2 piece plugs. Others (Champion) came up with a 1 piece plug design to overcome the problem of the 2 piece plugs breaking - but Ford continues to push the 2 piece plug (in 05-07 V8's) with some anti-sieze on the snorkel that is prone to getting stuck. But the problem still exists for those that follow the recommended spark plug change interval and with warranty over at 60K the dealers just laugh at you when you come in and they tell you the cost could be $1000 if they change the plugs and they all break. No ownership of a crappy design. I really do understand that things break and eventually wear out and that is what warranty is for and my cost afterwards, but when a crappy design WILL result in a known problem, I have a problem with that. How would you feel if you took your vehicle in for it's 100,000 mile tune up and get told it isn't $300 but $1300 because the plugs broke off in the head which is a known issue design issue with your vehicle. Too bad you didn't bring it in sooner. hahahahaha - somehow the plugs breaking off is your fault because you drove it! Good thing there are forums to educate owners of potential problems. Aluminum Hood corrosion is still an ongoing problem with no remedy other than to buy an aftermarket fiberglass hood - or never get the hood wet in a rain or live in a humid climate. Because it is not perforated within the warranty period, they don't do anything. Yup that is what the warranty states, but lousy manufacturing methods (steel impregnated in the hood lip) causes this blistery galvanic corrosion with nothing done but sand and repaint perhaps which does nothing to remedy the problem or keep it from re-occurring. A great design! Fortunately Safety issues as a result of design issues result in mandated recalls. Waldo - you're right I don't know what they fix before it goes into production. But I see and read about the things they decide not to fix or remedy and for the life of me I can't understand why they wouldn't install a drain and recommend oil changes in the PTU when all other parts that require oil do have change/maintenance intervals and they refuse to change the oil without removing the PTU. Perhaps you can explain why in 8 years, they haven't improved the design of this PTU to make it last longer. Off topic but - I get laughed at by the Service Advisor when I asked about the cost to change spark plugs in my Mustang, nor did I receive a notice or recommendation at a service appointment that it would be a good idea to have a TSB performed on the plugs before they get so stuck in the heads that they break. In fact I had to tell the Service Advisor twice that Mustang had the 2 piece plug design. They did install PTU coolers on heavy use vehicles but people also seem to have issues with those too. Band-aid solutions rather than actual fixes - IMO.

I also wonder what "good authority" is. Waldo could be 100% right but with all the gunky greasy sh!t I saw in a used, failed PTU, I don't think this was caused by a 1 time event but that is just my opinion from observation. I remember working with electric motors and transformers - the common saying was that for every 10 degree rise in temperature, the service life was halved. So temperature soaking was a time event - not a one time event. But then burn the toast once and it is burnt - validating Waldo's assertion. So who knows for sure except your hairdresser lol. As far as fixing problems, Ford's (and any other manufacturer's) only concerns are warranty repairs. Once warranty is over, they could give a rats a$$ about longevity. Same thing with the broken spark plug issue on 05-07 V8's and aluminum hoods on Mustangs etc. Cars are designed to be throw away after 5-8 years in spite of them telling everyone how 'Ford Tough' things are - and remember the better idea light bulb?

When you change the oil in anything else, you drain and refill. No need to disassemble - but of course that would be ideal if you did - but not really worth the cost - IMO.

If you can't find any place willing to add suck out oil and add or even just add to it, then do it yourself. All you really need are some ramps so you can slither under the vehicle with a 3/8" ratchett, a bottle of 75W140 oil, an oil pump that screws onto that bottle and get about 3 feet of plastic hose that slides onto the pump discharge. For the cost of these parts, if you don't have them, you will be paying still less than paying a place to do it for you. Find the PTU which is pretty easy, remove the fill plug on the passenger side of the PTU with the 3/8" ratchet (it is a square drive 1/2" plug with a square indent for the 3/8" drive), route the plastic hose into the hole and pump until it starts to overflow. Put the fill plug back in. Done. Not so hard was it. For shits and giggles, measure how much was in the bottle before and after - so you get some idea of how much you added to the PTU - but you will waste a bit because it will overflow out the drain hole a bit - but you'll have some sort of idea of how much you needed to add. To make it easier, do it before the exhaust is hot so you don't burn your arms. Driving the vehicle up onto the ramps won't heat up the exhaust that much if the vehicle was cold to begin with. My oil was horribly thick, pasty and black so the change was well worth it. As far as changing the Rear Diff Unit (RDU), I changed mine when I did the PTU. The oil in the RDU was pristine - clean and golden - so I will probably never change it again. It was like new - not like the PTU which I think gets cooked by the exhaust that goes right under it - but of course that is only a guess.

As suggested take it to a small oil change place and tell them that there is a fill plug like those in a Diff on the passenger side of the PTU. Ask them to suck out the old oil (like they do to differentials) and pump in new 75W140 oil. Fill it until it comes out the fill hole. If they can't get much out because of gear interference, then at least top it up because it will be low because it cooks to a grease. As you might have seen in many previous posts, I drilled a drain hole and did about 10 drain and fills. The oil gets cooked and greasy and stops lubricating. The greasy paste also gets thrown up to the top area where there is a vent. After a while this area gets plugged and can't relieve the system pressure due to heat build up and then the greasy goo gets pushed out the vent and then it drips down until you can see it on the driveway - all this of course is only my opinion after looking at a used PTU internally which had LOTS of greasy paste stuck all around the inside - with only 120ml of oil instead of the required 530 ml. . As with anything - changing the oil can only help. Good luck.

If you strapped yourself under the Escape and went for a drive and took a video - you'd be eligible for a Darwin Award! LOL It sure would be interesting to know exactly why these PTU's are failing other than speculating over and over. Even in Canada where it is generally colder (and maybe less of a heat issue for 6 months of the year anyway) the tranny shops and Ford say lots of them fail. Mine has 80K miles and the oil was pretty think and gooey. I changed the oil multiple times (I put in a drain) this summer and the oil is still nice and is staying much thinner than it was - but still pretty black. Not sure I buy into 'the overheat once and it cooks the oil' theory and am more inclined to see it as multiple heat soaks but again - just guessing on my part. A temperature probe would be a nice mod.