niceonept Posted August 17, 2021 Report Share Posted August 17, 2021 I've just had my cracked sunroof repaired (the static glass part rather than the moving part) but the firm who did it were unable to source it in the laminated glass as originally fitted to my 2018 ST-Line and replaced with toughened. They called their supplier who confirmed the laminated glass was no longer available and Ford had replaced it with toughened. Why would Ford do that? Has anyone else come across this when getting their broken glass sunroof repaired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 I remember reading the same issue in the Forums. Even the newer Edges came from the factory without the laminated sunroof glass. Did you notice any sound difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handfiler Posted August 18, 2021 Report Share Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, niceonept said: I've just had my cracked sunroof repaired (the static glass part rather than the moving part) but the firm who did it were unable to source it in the laminated glass as originally fitted to my 2018 ST-Line and replaced with toughened. They called their supplier who confirmed the laminated glass was no longer available and Ford had replaced it with toughened. Why would Ford do that? Has anyone else come across this when getting their broken glass sunroof repaired? Laminated glass is heavier and more susceptible to cracking. Tempered glass is considerably stronger and is cheaper to manufacture. It takes considerably more force for tempered glass to fail but when it does it does so in a spectacular way. Long story short they switched for cost and weight savings. Edited August 18, 2021 by handfiler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perblue Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 15 hours ago, handfiler said: Laminated glass is heavier and more susceptible to cracking. Tempered glass is considerably stronger and is cheaper to manufacture. It takes considerably more force for tempered glass to fail but when it does it does so in a spectacular way. Long story short they switched for cost and weight savings. Laminated glass can be made up of tempered glass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceonept Posted August 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 On 8/18/2021 at 5:40 AM, omar302 said: I remember reading the same issue in the Forums. Even the newer Edges came from the factory without the laminated sunroof glass. Did you notice any sound difference? Thanks Omar, I should have searched the forum first I guess. It looks like there has been quite some discussion about it already. The noise issue is a bit concerning though. I've not noticed anything, but as I've not had chance to take the car out onto the motorway yet, it's a little too early to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceonept Posted August 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 17 hours ago, handfiler said: Laminated glass is heavier and more susceptible to cracking. Tempered glass is considerably stronger and is cheaper to manufacture. It takes considerably more force for tempered glass to fail but when it does it does so in a spectacular way. Long story short they switched for cost and weight savings. Thanks. The guy at Autoglass said Ford probably changed the spec because they had so many failures with the laminated glass, most likely due to flexing caused by vehicle movement, or susceptibility to stone-chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Perblue said: Laminated glass can be made up of tempered glass. But why? That’s like wearing suspenders and a belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perblue Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, akirby said: But why? That’s like wearing suspenders and a belt. It actually isn't. Plain glass breaks in sharp random shards and splinters almost exploding, so when it breaks you can get hit with small spikes even with laminated, like the fine ones you find days later with your foot after breaking a drinking glass on the floor. Causing a huge chance of getting fine pieces in your eyes and such during an accident. Tempered shatters into a million tiny puzzle like pieces but not spikes and doesn't explode the same creating much less splinters, which is much safer for occupants of a vehicle. It is also far more impact resistant using tempered instead of plain glass, which is why they use it for security glass, fish tanks, etc. Edited August 19, 2021 by Perblue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handfiler Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 In my 35+ years of working in the transportation window industry I have not come across a spec requirement for tempered glass panes as part of the composition for the laminated glass. Just tempered, laminated or variations of polycarbonate. I've tested them all to certify that they meet FMVSS 217 requirements. A fun aspect of the job as I really enjoyed destroying things ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perblue Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 1 hour ago, handfiler said: In my 35+ years of working in the transportation window industry I have not come across a spec requirement for tempered glass panes as part of the composition for the laminated glass. Just tempered, laminated or variations of polycarbonate. I've tested them all to certify that they meet FMVSS 217 requirements. A fun aspect of the job as I really enjoyed destroying things ? It is a thing https://www.onedayglass.com/types-of-glass/tempered-laminated-glass/ https://www.fabglassandmirror.com/laminated "A tempered laminated glass made with two panes of tempered glass is also widely common in living spaces where greater security is required. Thus, tempered glass is only a safety glass, while laminated safety glass is both shatterproof glass as well as safe to use." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handfiler Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 30 minutes ago, Perblue said: It is a thing https://www.onedayglass.com/types-of-glass/tempered-laminated-glass/ https://www.fabglassandmirror.com/laminated "A tempered laminated glass made with two panes of tempered glass is also widely common in living spaces where greater security is required. Thus, tempered glass is only a safety glass, while laminated safety glass is both shatterproof glass as well as safe to use." I get that it's a thing. I jut haven't seen it in an automotive application yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted August 19, 2021 Report Share Posted August 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Perblue said: It actually isn't. Plain glass breaks in sharp random shards and splinters almost exploding, so when it breaks you can get hit with small spikes even with laminated, like the fine ones you find days later with your foot after breaking a drinking glass on the floor. Causing a huge chance of getting fine pieces in your eyes and such during an accident. Tempered shatters into a million tiny puzzle like pieces but not spikes and doesn't explode the same creating much less splinters, which is much safer for occupants of a vehicle. It is also far more impact resistant using tempered instead of plain glass, which is why they use it for security glass, fish tanks, etc. The point is tempered glass is not a safety hazard when it breaks so adding the plastic laminate to keep it together doesn’t make it more safe. I guess laminated tempered glass might be stronger but I don’t think it’s safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceonept Posted September 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2021 (edited) On 8/18/2021 at 5:40 AM, omar302 said: I remember reading the same issue in the Forums. Even the newer Edges came from the factory without the laminated sunroof glass. Did you notice any sound difference? I've now had opportunity to do a fair bit of motorway driving since the glass was replaced and no, I can't say I have noticed any increase in noise at all. You wouldn't know it was any different. Edited September 1, 2021 by niceonept 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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