4x4 Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 I just took our 07 MKX to NTB to have an alignment done as I had new tires put on a couple of months ago and noticed a big pull to the right. This is my wifes car so not sure if it was doing this before or if this was just noticeable after the tire change. Anyway NTB does an alignment and immediately after taking it home I notice if I take my hands off the wheel the car pulls to the right pretty swiftly....I just took it back to NTB and they are trying to tell me its the tires..they moved the right front tire to the left side and it did seem to pull back to the left....they tried moving it to the back left and now its pulling again to the right....when I gas it, it does go to the left but when just drifting it goes to the right...they say the alignment is within spec. I can go back to discount tire and complain about the tires but wanted to be sure this wasnt a lincoln issue first as my warranty is up I think around the first of the year. In searching this forum I saw a couple of TSB's on an issue similar, is that my problem most likely? And is there really a fix to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 I just took our 07 MKX to NTB to have an alignment done as I had new tires put on a couple of months ago and noticed a big pull to the right. This is my wifes car so not sure if it was doing this before or if this was just noticeable after the tire change. Anyway NTB does an alignment and immediately after taking it home I notice if I take my hands off the wheel the car pulls to the right pretty swiftly....I just took it back to NTB and they are trying to tell me its the tires..they moved the right front tire to the left side and it did seem to pull back to the left....they tried moving it to the back left and now its pulling again to the right....when I gas it, it does go to the left but when just drifting it goes to the right...they say the alignment is within spec. I can go back to discount tire and complain about the tires but wanted to be sure this wasnt a lincoln issue first as my warranty is up I think around the first of the year. In searching this forum I saw a couple of TSB's on an issue similar, is that my problem most likely? And is there really a fix to it? It's a normal thing for it to pull to the right when accelerating and the left when decelerating. That's what is called "torque steer" . When on a level road at normal cruise speed with no wind, the vehicle should track straight when you let the steering wheel go. Any pull is caused either by alignment or tires. If NTB did the alignment, they should have provided yopu with a print out of both the before and after readings. Get that an either e-mail it to me or post it and I'll tell you if the vehicle has a tire or alignment problem. NTB is not my choice of an alignment shop--- they should have test driven the car and found the pull--- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4 Posted October 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 It's a normal thing for it to pull to the right when accelerating and the left when decelerating. That's what is called "torque steer" . When on a level road at normal cruise speed with no wind, the vehicle should track straight when you let the steering wheel go. Any pull is caused either by alignment or tires. If NTB did the alignment, they should have provided yopu with a print out of both the before and after readings. Get that an either e-mail it to me or post it and I'll tell you if the vehicle has a tire or alignment problem. NTB is not my choice of an alignment shop--- they should have test driven the car and found the pull--- Ok now it is going left on take off and drifts right as a few seconds......my mkx has the 18's and i put the yokohoma tires on it from the factory contientals. On the print out they gave me it doesnt have before numbers....which is scary because I found out today from the tech they didnt rotate the tires when they did the oil change..so who knows if they even did an alignment...they probably just checked the specs and charged me.....see the attachment for the #'s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Ok now it is going left on take off and drifts right as a few seconds......my mkx has the 18's and i put the yokohoma tires on it from the factory contientals. On the print out they gave me it doesnt have before numbers....which is scary because I found out today from the tech they didnt rotate the tires when they did the oil change..so who knows if they even did an alignment...they probably just checked the specs and charged me.....see the attachment for the #'s They obviously did nothing to correct the problem. The caster angle on the left side is 4.5 degrees out on the positive side. The right side is out 2.4 degrees to the positive side. The difference is causing the right pull. The caster angle causes a pull to the negative side. The right side is 2.1 degrees more negative than the left. Their idea of an alignment is to only check the toe-in--- the only thing that is highlighted! I question if they even measured the caster ----- and they sure as hell didn't test drive the vehicle! You need to get that vehicle to a shop that specializes in alignment or to a dealer who has a decent alignment mechanic. You probably do have a bad tire which is causing the change of sides of the pull when the wheels are switched, but after that is fixed, you will still have a right pull unless that caster problem is corrected. NTB is notorious for having techs who say they know it all, but in actuality know very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4 Posted October 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 They obviously did nothing to correct the problem. The caster angle on the left side is 4.5 degrees out on the positive side. The right side is out 2.4 degrees to the positive side. The difference is causing the right pull. The caster angle causes a pull to the negative side. The right side is 2.1 degrees more negative than the left. Their idea of an alignment is to only check the toe-in--- the only thing that is highlighted! I question if they even measured the caster ----- and they sure as hell didn't test drive the vehicle! You need to get that vehicle to a shop that specializes in alignment or to a dealer who has a decent alignment mechanic. You probably do have a bad tire which is causing the change of sides of the pull when the wheels are switched, but after that is fixed, you will still have a right pull unless that caster problem is corrected. NTB is notorious for having techs who say they know it all, but in actuality know very little. So does NTB even check for caster? They did test drive the vehicle but only to blame the tires....first night when I came in they said tire pressure was party to blame..and yes one tire was low but was having problems way before that . Should I take it to another NTB ? or to the lincoln dealership? My main concern is or was that its not a warranty issue..now its just driving me crazy. Wonder what discount is going to say if I say one of the tires is bad and is that even the case now? the "bad" tire was on the passenger front, moved to the drivers front when it started pulling left, and now on the drivers rear...current pull is on hard take off to the left and on coast a drift to the right.... tires have maybe 2K miles on them.... appreciate the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 So does NTB even check for caster? They did test drive the vehicle but only to blame the tires....first night when I came in they said tire pressure was party to blame..and yes one tire was low but was having problems way before that . Should I take it to another NTB ? or to the lincoln dealership? My main concern is or was that its not a warranty issue..now its just driving me crazy. Wonder what discount is going to say if I say one of the tires is bad and is that even the case now? the "bad" tire was on the passenger front, moved to the drivers front when it started pulling left, and now on the drivers rear...current pull is on hard take off to the left and on coast a drift to the right.... tires have maybe 2K miles on them.... appreciate the help! You seem to have a strange vehicle--- it should pull to the right on a hard acceleration and drift slightly left when deceleraring. Now, back to the tires. If a tire is causing a pull, I would have that tire replaced because of a manufacturing defect. I would also have a decent alignment shop check the actual readings. What was done at NTB is wrong and they should have test driven the car and notified you af any necessary adjustments. There may be no adjustment other than a special kit that takes a real front end mechanic to install. Glad to be of whatever help I have done-- keep us posted as to your progress if you persue the problem further! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1TECH Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 The real problem is that there is no caster adjustment and camber only has a slight amount of adjustment on this vehicle. As Flyerjmr33 said that thing should pull right all day long just because of the negative caster onteh right side. Has the vehicle been in an accident of any kind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igcitng Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 What I have to add is probobly way offbase but I will bring it up. The Blazer I had before the Edge was purchased used. It had 32k on it. The MKX in this thread is an '07 so guessing it has a few miles on it, he did replace the tires. Anyway, soon after getting my Blazer it was pulling so I took it for an alignment. Turns out the actual problem was the hub and bearings in the left front wheel. Once that problem presented itself and I had it fixed it was out of alignment again because they aligned it to drive straight with a defect. So maybe check for a problem hiding in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4 Posted October 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 The real problem is that there is no caster adjustment and camber only has a slight amount of adjustment on this vehicle. As Flyerjmr33 said that thing should pull right all day long just because of the negative caster onteh right side. Has the vehicle been in an accident of any kind? The vehicle has not been in any accident and also it is an 07 but only has 36K miles on it...... I'm just wondering iwhy NTB would not adjust the caster even after all of these problems? They never even brought it up. Secondly, is maybe my vehicle pulling to the left instead of the right because of the bad tire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 The vehicle has not been in any accident and also it is an 07 but only has 36K miles on it...... I'm just wondering iwhy NTB would not adjust the caster even after all of these problems? They never even brought it up. Secondly, is maybe my vehicle pulling to the left instead of the right because of the bad tire? NTB thinks that a proper alignment is setting the toe only. The location of your bad tire could determine which direction the vehicle will pull. Why not take it to a decent alignment shop and find out whether or not you really do have a problem. It's possible that NTB never really measured the caster properly. They, for sure never test drove the car after the "alignment"--- No decent mechanic would ever return a vehicle to a customer without advising them of the problem or repairing the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1TECH Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 I'm just wondering iwhy NTB would not adjust the caster even after all of these problems? They never even brought it up. There is no way to adjust the caster on this vehicle, Ford didn't think that it would ever be necessary so they didn't build a way to adjust it into the vehicle which is idiotic if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 There is no way to adjust the caster on this vehicle, Ford didn't think that it would ever be necessary so they didn't build a way to adjust it into the vehicle which is idiotic if you ask me. Surprisingly, even MOOG doesn't make a caster adjusting kit. They do, however, make a camber adjusting kit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 There is no way that caster reading can be correct, you just can't add up all the tolerances to get it that far out of range. But having said that, everything you describe points to the tires being the problem. Ford actually sorts the production tires into 4 ranges and then only installs tires from within the same range on any one vehicle in order to reduce drifting. In the aftermarket you can end up with anything, so don't waste any more time on the alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) Oops, double post. Edited October 14, 2010 by Waldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted October 14, 2010 Report Share Posted October 14, 2010 There is no way that caster reading can be correct, you just can't add up all the tolerances to get it that far out of range. But having said that, everything you describe points to the tires being the problem. Ford actually sorts the production tires into 4 ranges and then only installs tires from within the same range on any one vehicle in order to reduce drifting. In the aftermarket you can end up with anything, so don't waste any more time on the alignment. After having been checked at NTB, for peace of mind if it were my vehicle, I'd take it to a REAL alignment shop. It's true that the caster readings are most likely wrong on the print-out, but it would be nice to know exactly what they are before attacking the tire problem. Of course, as the Discount Tire ad shows, he can always toss the defective tire through the Discount Tire Store window! :hyper: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4 Posted October 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 well the ntb alignment is for a year so that is why i kept saying return it to ntb...and thats what i was wondering about the caster, I was thinking i had read it is not adjustable... As for discount tire, what is going to make them believe the tires are the problem? Are they going to take my word for it or even ntb which is direct competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerjmr33 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) well the ntb alignment is for a year so that is why i kept saying return it to ntb...and thats what i was wondering about the caster, I was thinking i had read it is not adjustable... As for discount tire, what is going to make them believe the tires are the problem? Are they going to take my word for it or even ntb which is direct competition? If you return to NTB, you have all the right questions to ask now. An independant alignment shop or the dealer will give you better ammunition to get something done at discount tire--- Your call here-- Sometimes it costs you extra when you attempt to do things like an alignment by shopping price. Edited October 15, 2010 by flyerjmr33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.