jlkansascity

The shop I found would "top it off" but NOT suck it out and replace it. They were concerned that since it was already leaking all over and rust protecting the entire undercarriage with a nice layer of black gold, they didn't want to do a oil change on it and get blamed for it. But, they topped it off for free when I was changing the oil. This was ok with me, as we had made the decision to trade if off by then.

We bought a new 2017, ordered with the specs we wanted. We waited for over a month and took delivery yesterday. I'm just posting some of my notes after spending the morning going over the manual and exploring the options. I figure this might help others who are looking. Options; 302A 3.5 v-6 - I did not want turbos on this, I preferred the standard, simple, well tested 20" wheels (lots of debate, glad I went with the 20's Drivers Package - adaptive cruise/collision warning/adaptive steering/power adjust steering wheel/ Cargo Accessory Package - cargo area cover / cargo mat / rear bumper protector / Cold weather package - heated steering wheel / all weather floor mats (may move to CO) Tow Hitch package - with "sway control" but not yet confirmed if 2017 has larger radiator which is what I was after. On our old model, the tow package did come with a different radiator and maybe fans, but from what I have read the new model has nothing different other than the "sway control". http://www.fordescape.org/forum/engine-technical-discussion/11714-class-ii-tow-package-question.html My raw notes from this morning's exploration; We have 6 months Sirius. Includes access via app on phone, and on PC. Channel lineup; https://www.siriusxm.com/channellineup/ Looks like warranty includes Ford road service (card in manual) The ignition lockout deal; seems to be related to controlling CA DUI and non-paying buyers disguised as a security system. I’m glad we did not get it. Controls Music It will run phone apps like Spotify or music apps if you plug in phone via USB, it will display the phone app on the display. Parking Active Park Assist Will park parallel both park and unpark (in and out) and perpendicular (park / IN only). Side Sensing System detects objects within 24” Cameras Backup camera as expected Front camera works with rear Front has wide angle and standard views, accessible through the audio unit. Have to be in D or N to view cameras, if not backing up. Front camera only works at speeds under 6 MPH Designed mainly for pedestrian crossing views and safety. Cruise Control Set speed does not erase with a cancel or brake tap. Hit “resume” to resume. (old car, brake tap erased) Adaptive Cruise Control 4 adjustable gap settings; displayed on icon Maintains gap to vehicle in your lane in front of you 1,2,3,4 gap settings are in yards, 31, 43, 55, 67 respectively. It will NOT do a panic stop, but will slow if needed and apply brakes. Driver Alert (monitors how alert you are) Lane Keeping System Steering wheel stalk control Will do “alert” (shake wheel) and an “aid” (turns wheel) one or both, with three levels of intensity on “alert” Cross Traffic Alert - detects if cars or people are going by when you want to back out. Always on. Collision Warning System In a word, it will not automatically stop to prevent a rear end accident. It will warn you via loud audible alarm and flashing lights. It will pre-charge the brake system so that even a touch on the brakes will do a full panic mode brake lockup. Adaptive Steering Normal or Sport mode. Needs to “relearn” if battery disconnected or power loss. Spare tire Probably not, probably a sealant kit + compressor (cig lighter in rear of car) need to check. Break in Seems to be no mention of engine break in but interestingly, the tires have a 1,000 mile break in period. Basically try to drive slow and nice. Steering wheel is adjustable on side of column Autowipers = when on intermittent, only run if moisture is present. 110 v outlet in center console Lock doors without fob by touching top of latch Wipers are heated and turn on when rear window heat is on. Maybe it heats the fluid, IDK. Blind Spot Indicator - flashes spot on mirror if someone in blind spot. If you turn on the blinker, increases alarm and audio alarm. Hands free tailgate; kick like a soccer kick under center of bumper. No sideways. Do not grab the liftgate, this will activate the obstruction detection feature. Gas tank = 18.5 gallon MyKey; saves your settings in the key you use.

I went down the street to Xpress Lube (yes, I have written them good reviews on Yelp) and they changed the engine oil (with synthetic) and did the PTO for I think $100.00. And, until the NEXT oil change, they will check levels on both of them for FREE. So, until I do the next oil change, I can pull in and they'll check the transfer case for no charge. Now that's service. I almost feel guilty, knowing what a pain it is to check. They charge $49.96 for just a gearbox oil change and they do it while you wait, you don't even have to get out of the vehicle. They also check all fluids and tire pressures and clean the windshield. https://www.yelp.com/biz/xpress-lube-service-center-simi-valley-3 http://xpresslubelps.com/

That sounds like a reasonable, flexible and customer aware dealership. I wish I could find one like that in my local Los Angeles / Simi Valley area. I hope you write them a good review on Yelp / Google+ or whatever. When faced with a customer request, they adapted and came up with a solution. My local dealership; Simi Valley Ford; they did the opposite. They told me it was "impossible" to suction it out, and I told them I had done it myself a dozen times. Then they met with their "lead mechanic" then they all dug in their heels and told me essentially they know best and it costs $460.00 to pull the PTU, per "THE MANUAL". So I went down the street and had a quick change oil shop do it. Also, this is a AWD problem; in some areas they don't have many AWD. Here in CA, 99% of Edges are FWD, so they're not used to dealing with xfer cases. I just moved out here, and didn't have my equipment or location to do it myself anymore. http://www.simivalleyford.com/ #simivalleyford @@fordmansimi @@fordservice

There is no way that this approach is worse than leaving the old crappy oil in there. It's not ideal, but it's a huge step forward; it would ensure the case is full, and it would get some new oil in there, and it would remove a lot of the failed oil along with the sediment and particulates. I used this approach; I did it three times in one month to get the unit flushed out, then I did it once a month for 6 months, and now I do it once every 6 months. I've put about 25,000 miles on the vehicle since I first did this and it now has 165,000 miles on it but is slated to be traded in within 30 days when the new vehicle gets here.

For oil choice, you can use any 75w-140 which is the Ford recommendation for the PTO/PTU and if it's totally empty they say it takes 1.1 pints. I use Amsoil which I have used for decades, and Motul is also a good oil. I would only use synthetic for this high stress component. I did change my differential oil, but I have not heard of anyone having real issues with the rear diff. The chronic problems are the PTO/PTU/ Transfer case. JL

I think there is one flaw with that dealer's process. If you read these message boards, you'll see mention of the oil getting low without any leaks; I think it gets destroyed due to heat or wear. Some users on here have built extra heat shields to protect the case from heat. In my specific case, by the time it started leaking from the vent (which is not a normal leak in he sense they're looking for) the oil was nearly all gone and it was destroyed to the consistency of pudding or something like that...

the odds of that part being related are extremely extremely unlikely. I would say zero percent chance. The throttle body is for fuel delivery on the intake of the engine and has nothing to do with a transfer case.

Kleber; if I were in your shoes, I would search high and low trying to find a mechanic who can do the suction oil change approach to suction out the old oil and replace it. If this is done early enough and regularly enough, it's a huge help. I have run my Edge about 1.5 years AFTER Ford wanted to charge me $1600.00 USD to replace it. I just changed the oil a LOT (every week, then every month, now ever 3 months) and I got 20k more miles on it. I have about 30 more days to go and then we're getting a new vehicle. The 450 USD they wanted to charge for two days sounds like it was the "the book says to pull the PTU to change the oil" story that I have got here from some dealers as well.

yeah, I see that... I it will be one of the first things I visually verify when we take delivery...

I would offer a couple more facts that support the conclusion that it's a scam. By this I mean an avoidable known issue that dealers are profiting from, and which hurts Ford customers. 1) Actual FORD DEALERS are making $$$ selling the PTO units on eBAY. They are capitalizing on this known issue. Check it out; they're selling hundreds of them. 2) your local Ford dealer may or may not be clueless about this. The ones I have dealt with have been very rigid and their only response is to replace it and pay $1,600. There little to no consistency from Ford to the dealers. One can be great, and the next one can suck. I know some of each. 3) dealer responses are inconsistent; I have read and heard about some dealers fixing this as a warranty issue while others are "sucks to be you". 4) I've had dealers tell me that it's "impossible" to suction drain and change the fluid (Simi Valley Ford, Simi Valley, CA http://simivalleyford.net/).This is after I have done it a dozen times. After telling them that, the service manage had a "meeting" with the "lead mechanic" and they came back with this next suggestion; 5) Dealers I've dealt with have no creative solution, Simi Valley Ford wanted to charge me $460.00 to change the fluid by pulling the unit because "that's what the BOOK says" but denied that it was possible to change with a suction unit. So, I went down the road about 300 feet to a quick change place and had them do it. 6) overseas units were shipped with drain plugs. That is documented on this board. So, FORD apparently knew that the unit would not stand the heat or use case in the middle east for example, but it was a calculated shortcut to shortchange US buyers. And, like enigma-2 says, Ford did nothing to change the design which could have easily been done since the unit with a plug exists. http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/13533-13m01-middle-east-ptu-extended-warranty/ So, Ford could have been a lot better. But on the other hand, we have 163,000 on ours now and it still runs great. Even if we paid 1600 to have it replaced, that's not horrible upkeep for those miles on a 9 year old vehicle. And, we just ordered a 2017 Edge as my wife loves it and I don't want to pay for a new X5 right now. So the saga goes on...

@mjonas; here is another trick; if you can get access to a Ford XPLAN login, that site allows much better searching of existing inventory. I know from experience. We were looking for specific criteria and couldn't locate anything and neither could most dealers. Then my wife got the xPLAN login and was able to search all of California, Nevada, Utah and wherever we wanted to search. JL

We ordered one two weeks ago and have an order number and paperwork. That being said, the manufacturer to dealer relationship is a mess. While searching for the one we wanted, we were told all kinds of conflicting info from Dealers. Even on the service side, dealers are very inconsistent and some are good while some are stuck in the stone age. Also, most dealers "internet buying" is a joke and very frustrating. I had a list of criteria, and the #1 criteria was the non-turbo V-6 but the dealer "internet sales" team kept sending me the I-4 cars. I had to block them finally. It's difficult to search inventory across dealers. THe dealers just want you to "come in to the dealership" so they can muscle you and sell you something on the lot. They want to have physical visits and talk on the phone, I just want email and online ordering. I can buy and sell a house online without ever meeting the other party and without leaving my home; I just did it. But you cannot buy a car from Ford without being forced into going to a Dealer and dealing with that idiocy. LIke I asked an online Ford rep; where is the "BUY NOW" button? I do not want to go to a dealer; the local one here sucks. But in the end, I had to go to the dealer and do a bunch of forms on paper (ever heard of DOCUSIGN?) and listen to bad jokes. The buying process is stuck in the stone age. There is little or no data interaction from Ford <> dealers. There is no use of data analytics or presenting data to customers in a useful way; why can't I get a "progress" update on my order like DOMINOS PIZZA does? This doesn't even touch on service. I know for a fact my local dealer where I ordered this has a service department stuck in the stone age. I dread working with them on the new Edge.

The 2017 exterior colors for the Edge are Canyon Ridge, Shadow Black, White Gold, Magnetic, Blue Jeans, Burgundy Velvet, Ruby Red Metallic, White Platinum, Ingot Silver and Oxford White. - I got these colors from a online Ford Rep just today.

I don't know if the online site is updated but the dealers have access to the new colors. we just ordered one about two weeks ago. They told us the Bronze Fire Metallic is not available in 2017, here are the new colors; The 2017 exterior colors for the Edge are Canyon Ridge, Shadow Black, White Gold, Magnetic, Blue Jeans, Burgundy Velvet, Ruby Red Metallic, White Platinum, Ingot Silver and Oxford White. - I got these colors from a online Ford Rep just today. Here is a good thread on another forum; http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index.php?/topic/61407-2017-ford-edge-production-information/

They also dumped the Bronze Fire Metallic on the Edge in 2017. We just ordered one and it was gone. The Dealers know the colors available in their crappy old mainframe app, it's just not online yet.

Update; Mine now has 160k on it. I was changing the PTU oil every 6 months, but moved to LA and don't have a garage setup or all the equipment anymore. So I go to Ford to ask them to do it. They tell me it's impossible. When I tell them I've done it dozens of times, then they go talk to "head mechanic" Then they come back and go "by the book" which says it has to be PULLED to change the oil which costs $440.00. And they said all this with a straight face at http://www.simivalleyford.com/This is frustrating because I KNOW there are Ford dealers who can think on their feet and do this type of stuff all the time, I just haven't found one. My daughter has a great dealer in Colorado that does stuff like this no question. So I went on yelp and contacted a bunch of local shops. I found Express Lube Center who knew exactly what i was talking about and said "no problem" so I went over there and had it done. https://www.yelp.com/biz/xpress-lube-service-center-simi-valley-3 After I sell my "other house" (I just moved) we are on the market for a new vehicle and this one will be down the road. Funny thing is my wife LOVES this Edge, so it might be another Edge, dang it!. I hope they've solved this problem and not just replaced it with other problems.

I would be curious what you figured out on this, my Ford Edge seems to have the same behavior. I was testing yesterday to see if maybe the evaporator core was freezing up due to low freon. I was driving across LA and back and here's my preliminary testing. If I turned the temperature as LOW as it would go, and the fan on HIGH, within about 20 minutes the air flow got slower and slower to the point it was barely moving air. Then I turned the AC OFF and the fan OFF. Drove 15 minutes and turned fan back ON and temp to LOWEST and it worked great again. So to test if that was from a frozen evaporator (which would act like that more or less), I then kept the fan on HIGH, but turned the AC to about 78 instead of 60. Drove for 40 minutes with no issues. Slowly lowered temperature to around 72 and the fan still kept blowing full speed. So, in my case I'm suspicious that the evaporator core is freezing due to low freon. I'm going to see if there is a way to get a visual on the evaporator to confirm. I'd be interested to know what your fix ends up being.

I just went on Yelp, searched my area for "oil change". Then I sorted by top reviewed and read a lot of the reviews. Then I looked for ones that were also more of a shop, doing other work as well because I figured a guy with two bays just doing oil changes is probably not the best choice. Then I sent a message to the shop (from Yelp) and Yelp also then will let you send that same message to 4 other shops with the click of a mouse. So, 5 shops got a message from Yelp. My first choice replied within minutes, knew exactly what i was talking about and said no problem. One other guy replied and said he'd never heard of it, and then he said that all transfer cases have drain plugs, so he got eliminated...

Yeah, I found one who knows what I'm talking about and has all the right equipment to do it, and has done it before. They charge $49.00 - $80.00 depending on the car, so I'll report back after I try them out in a few weeks or so. JL

The dealer I went to here (Simi Valley Ford), the service manager first said it was impossible; you would need a hose as small as a hummingbird's proboscis to get into the PTU/PTO according to him. That was his first position. Then, I told him that I have changed it personally with a suction device a dozen times so that was not true. Then he went and talked with his head mechanic. Their next and final position was "The Book" says you have to pull the PTU/PTO to change the oil, and they had/have no creativity beyond reading what The Book says for them to do. So I essentially had three choices; 1) pay $440.00 for them to do it like The Book says, 2) do nothing or 3) go somewhere else. I'm going somewhere else, but I would love to find a Ford dealer who had some creativity and could see things from my perspective. Update; I used Yelp's feature to send a request to 4 local oil change places to see who sounded familiar with this process and competent and maybe could perform this oil change. I did find one that sounds promising and I am going to take the Edge to them. But, to further illustrate the point that many shops don't really think much outside the box, one local auto repair / oil change / brake repair shop said they "never heard of it" when asking about this maintenance. What kind of shop has "never heard" of changing the transfer case oil on a AWD? LOL

This is what's frustrating and you would think that Ford would figure this out. I go in the local dealer, I'm told $440.00 to change the transfer case oil because they're run by a bunch of "nose to the manual" types who can't think on their own (or don't give a crap about the customer). Then, down the road somewhere, you get it done for $80.00. Then, when they called, they recommended I let them change the power steering fluid for about 110.00, the brake fluid for 50.00 or something and the air filter for 50.00 or something. The one fluid I WANTED changed, they can't, but they want to upsell me on all this crap I don't need and can do on my own. That would be like going in one McDonalds and a 1/4 pounder costs $8.00 and then down the road they're charging $40.00. I am TRYING to find a dealer like yours, who will work with me and have at least some of my concerns listened to. Simi Valley Ford / @simifordman is NOT that dealer. BTW, where are you/what is the dealer you're working with, maybe it's within driving distance. I'd pay $80.00 in a heartbeat to get it changed. JL

In my opinion, I do have the situation in hand. But when I moved, I got rid of all of my suction tools, oil drain tools, gear old pump, etc. In the house I'm renting I have no garage space, etc. So I thought "while it's at the dealer, I'll just have them change the PTO oil since it's right there". That's where it went downhill; they say it's "leaking" (yeah, it's a mess from the vent) but there is no active leak and they want $110.00 to diag it for the leak or $440.00 to change the oil. It's Simi Valley Ford; http://simivalleyford.net/ @SimiFordman

My latest debacle dealing with Ford on this issue. I moved, so I got rid of a lot of my garage stuff. I'm in a new city and new state. I have the Edge at the local Ford dealer to have the break booster replaced ($658.00) and asked to have the PTU fluid replaced. Many users on this forum have had Ford Dealers replace the PTO fluid. Well, this dealer says it's impossible, and that the Ford authorized process for replacing the fluid is to PULL the PTO and replace the fluid, which costs $440.00. I told him I know it's possible since I've done it about a dozen times. I also have a guy on my blog that says per the FSM it says "According to the FSM, the factory recommends pumping out the transfer unit, refilling to the bottom of the fill plug, not lower, then manually turning the front wheels a minimum of 3 rotations. Once that’s done, drain, fill, and turn the wheels again. Repeat this process 3 times, then fill again to the bottom of the fill plug." It's amazing and frustrating that every Ford Dealer seems to have their own story and there isn't any consistent posture from Ford on this issue. This local dealer says their shop foreman is a Ford certified master mechanic and what he says is set in stone. All I know, is I have a contract on my house at my old place and when it sells I'm getting a new vehicle or maybe two. I need to get rid of this Edge and the frustrations it brings me. I doubt my new vehicles will be Ford after this never-ending headache. @fordservice

No, there is only one. But it is kind of in the front of the vehicle so who knows what they were thinking. There is a rear differential but that's different...