Worst Buying Experience Ever! - Help

[MattyP]

asdf

Edited March 29, 2013 by MattyP

[MattyP]

asdf

Edited March 29, 2013 by MattyP

[Waldo]

Really, you tried to trade in a Canadian car at a US dealership and you DIDN'T MENTION IT?? I mean that would have been the first question out of my mouth, before asking "what's your price?, when can I take delivery?", I would have asked "Will you accept a Canadian registered vehicle as a trade?".

 

Never mind that, how did you even bring it into the US? I'll bet you didn't mention it to the border guard. You can't just bring stuff into the US and sell it. if you got caught doing that you could be up for some serious fines. A vehicle has to be imported to the US before it can be sold - this is a BIG DEAL.

 

By the way I live in Canada but work in the US, so I deal with these kinds of things all the time. I can't ever imagine not mentioning something important like this before the deal was done. While the dealer should have caught this - you need to take responsibility for the fact that you tried to pull a fast one on "the system" and didn't get away with it.

[Benawhile]

"you need to take responsibility for the fact that you tried to pull a fast one on "the system" and didn't get away with it."

 

Thank you, I wanted to say this at first and was going to just leave it alone, but I feel it is good to get it out there. My exact thoughts was he was hoping to get away with it and now refuses to take any responsibility for his own actions. How in the wide world of sports does one not even mention this through the whole buying process? If I was to buy a Canadian car I would think this would be question one or two.

 

Sure that sucks for you, but I can't say I feel a bit sorry for you or feel as though you have been wronged in anyway. You kind of got what you asked for, or in this case didn't ask for. Cross a border and attempt to trade and buy a registered vechicle worth thousand upon thousands and you want to put all the blame on the dealer as though you have no vested interest in this process? Sorry I'm just not feeling it for you on this complaint.

[Haz]

MattieP: I can understand your frustration and anger over the situation that developed at the dealership, especially since this is your first vehicle-buying experience in the USA.

 

It's true that earlier in the process, someone should have observed your Canadian license plates and/or your Canadian driver's license, and especially someone should have noticed the Canadian title document your provided for your trade-in when you were finalizing your purchase.

 

If you walk away from the deal now and/or keep your trade-in, you'll still have to fulfill all of Michigan's new resident requirements and manage the conversion of your Canadian-titled (& maybe not-manufactured-for-USA-sale) vehicle into being Michigan-titled & USA-saleable.

 

And you'll be navigating that process alone, probably making several visits to the Michigan Secretary of State's office and/or other Federal regulatory sites. If you have the time & you enjoy the thrill of a (paper-chase) hunt, maybe that route is for you.

 

Remembering that your purchase is an A-Plan deal, the dealer cannot give you anything extra in excess of $50 at his cost (I found that in the A-Plan rules). Maybe they'll cover that portion of the importation-documentation cost.

 

You could let the dealer do all the work because you will have to pay one way or the other for that conversion process. Or, you could sell the vehicle in Canada if you have a friend or family member north of the border to manage that process on your behalf using a Power of Attorney document.

 

Good luck!

 

By the way, here's what the dealer (and/or perhaps you) must be concerned with under Michigan law:

 

Section 3-23

CANADIAN OR OTHER IMPORTED VEHICLES

3.23.1 Authority. Federal law requires all vehicles entering the United States from another

country for resale to be imported through a registered importer. A registered importer is a

business authorized by the federal Department of Transportation to handle the legalities of

importing vehicles into the United States. On behalf of the vehicle owner, the registered

importer ensures the vehicle has proper ownership documents and meets all EPA and DOT

standards. The importer also inspects the VIN, converts the odometer from kilometers to miles,

and ensures custom duties are paid, if applicable.

3.23.2 Requirement. When vehicles are imported into the U.S. from other countries, including

Canada, additional documents must be presented to the Secretary of State branch office with the

application for title. Failure to provide proper documentation may result in the branch office

rejecting the application.

a) Foreign ownership document. The foreign ownership document must be

properly assigned to the buyer, and must include the following information:

1) The date of purchase;

2) The odometer reading in kilometers when sold to the Michigan dealer;

3) The names and addresses of both the seller and the buyer.

U.S. Customs Form 7501. This form is required by U.S. Customs for all vehicles

entering the United States. The form verifies the vehicle entered the U.S. properly,

identifies the port of entry, and declares whether duty is due. It must be stamped

by the U.S. Customs office at the port of entry, which verifies they processed the

form. Forms submitted to the Secretary of State without this stamp will be denied.

c) Vehicle Number and On-Road Equipment Inspection Form (TR-54). The

Department will only title vehicles that are imported for resale by a Michigan

dealer, or for private use by Michigan citizens. Customs Form 7501 indicates the

port through which the vehicle entered the United States. Michigan port codes

begin with the number 38 (e.g., 3801 is Detroit and 3802 is Port Huron).

If the port code does not begin with 38, form TR-54 must be completed by a

Michigan law enforcement officer to verify the vehicle is physically located in

Michigan. It must be submitted to the Secretary of State branch office with the

application for resale title.

d) U.S. Department of Transportation Forms. To certify compliance with Federal

motor vehicle standards, the following forms are submitted to the Secretary of

State branch office:

1) HS Form 7, completed by the registered importer;

2) A statement of compliance or a waiver from the US DOT.

e) U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Forms. To certify compliance with

Federal environmental standards, the following forms are submitted to the

Secretary of State branch office:

1) Form 3520-1, completed by the registered importer;

2) A statement of compliance or a waiver from the EPA.

NOTE: DOT and EPA forms are required only when importing “grey market”

vehicles that were not manufactured to meet U.S. import standards.

f) Odometer Conversion Paperwork: The registered importer converts the

vehicle’s odometer from kilometers to miles, and provides the buyer with an

affidavit to describe the odometer conversion. This affidavit will be necessary

when titling the vehicle.

[Benawhile]

Haz - Incredible amount of work there!!! Thanks for the insight. I was looking at buying an Edge out of state - a dealer in the next state offers killer deals compared to the ones in Colorado. But as soon as I saw the amount of "red tape" and it was only a fraction of what you posted here for out of country buying, I said no thanks I don't need to prove my hoop jumping ability, I will just save another month or two and keep what hair I still have left.

[Haz]

I once moved to Michigan and had to navigate through their new-resident process.

 

I prefer avoiding surprises by doing a bit of advanced research.

 

If I moved to Canada, I wouldn't immediately know how to process a US vehicle, which it turns out, is similarly complex.

 

Good luck!

[Waldo]

When I moved to Michigan back in 2000, it wasn't nearly that complex. I just had to get a recall clearance letter, get some form at the border and went to the SOS and my car Canadian car was registered. But i guess the times have changed. When I moved back to Ontario I did the import on all 4 of my cars and all my other stuff - while getting married to a Mexican citizen and processing all her paperwork as well!

[MattyP]

I fully disclosed that it was a canadian registered vehicle

Really, you tried to trade in a Canadian car at a US dealership and you DIDN'T MENTION IT?? I mean that would have been the first question out of my mouth, before asking "what's your price?, when can I take delivery?", I would have asked "Will you accept a Canadian registered vehicle as a trade?"

 

I just transfered over my license the other week to a MI licesne and asked the lady at the SOS about what to do with my car and how long do i have, which is up to 90 days to get everything set (all SOS needs is a the 7501 form). I have looked into this prior to the new car purchase, but since my car has tinted windows and only FWD, and is kind of old, i figured i would trade it in. I did not know it would be such a big deal, and I assumed the car dealership so close to Canada would have delt with something like this in the past. The sales man said it was not a problem.

 

Well after a few hours and some heated discussions, I still do not have my new Edge, but i get it on tuesday.

 

The dealer agreed to the import paper work

 

Sure i could of went to Canada and sold my car, but I just started a new job and still getting settled in, and was not really worth all the time and efford it would take me.

 

The reason i do not have my new car is becuase for some reason it has a front license plate holder on it (with holes in the bumper for where the plate goes), which i did not want since front plates are not required in this state. So they are changing the bumper for me (which has me a little scared).

 

So I get my 2013 Edge Tuesday, am I really hope I do not have any issues with.

 

Thanks again everyone for your help and advise with this matter.

Edited February 16, 2013 by MattyP

[Haz]

MattyP: We all must've overlooked those significant details in your two initial posts.

 

If I were the dealer, I'd refuse to process your deal as A-Plan.

 

You're both putting your A-Plan privileges at risk; You (or your Ford-employee relative) by requiring the dealer to effectively give you a $495.00 gift -- and them, the dealership, by fulfilling your request.

 

I expect both you and the dealer signed the attached form, right?

 

If the right people in Dearborn are reading this thread, it shouldn't be too difficult for them to locate your purchase transaction.

 

Good luck!

AXZD-Plan Pricing Agreement.pdf

Edited February 16, 2013 by Haz

[MattyP]

asdf

Edited March 29, 2013 by MattyP

[Dingo]

To be honest, if I were the dealer, I would've told you to eat a ****.

Edited February 17, 2013 by akirby
Easy now......

[Will S.]

Seems like hostility toward someone who may have been duped by the salesman, anxious to close a sale. How could the dealer possibly have taken his vehicle in trade without their appraisal spotting the Canadian reg; without their sales manager and administrative office noticing the Canadian reg and without checking the vin#, which also woulod have come up as Canadian?

 

Maybe that salesman thought he'd get the customer caught in a position of having no alternative but to cough up more money. I think the guy should be given some slack here, and if it costs the dealer another $500 and some more paperwork, that's a lesson for him to learn.

 

Too many salesman will tell a customer anything that it takes, to get a signed contract. He's the one that needs to have his azz kicked.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Will S.

[Dingo]

The dealer missed the plate. That's true. Not the rest. My vin# is Canadian, and I pulled mine off of the transport truck at the dealership in Cumming, GA. The edge is made in Canada. I've never had anyone ask me for a registration for an appraisal.

 

When the deal is made, it's for the price of the old vehicle and the new vehicle. The governmental crap is the responsibility of the buyer.

[Will S.]

I don't have any skin in this game, but I still cannot see how the dealership completed ALL of the necessary paperwork for the sale of a new vehicle, with trade-in (tradein paperwork/documentation/title/financing), and most likely they removed the Canadian plate, and it never occurred to any of them that this might be a Canadian-owned vehicle until the buyer was actually leaving with the new one? DIdn't they have his title in their posession, and check it for leins, and not notice anything odd? Is this the first time a Canadian bought/traded a vehicle there? You'd think that would be one of the first things they would check. Maybe if they were in Oklahoma, they might be caught off guard.

[Waldo]

The dealer missed the plate. That's true. Not the rest. My vin# is Canadian, and I pulled mine off of the transport truck at the dealership in Cumming, GA. The edge is made in Canada. I've never had anyone ask me for a registration for an appraisal.

 

When the deal is made, it's for the price of the old vehicle and the new vehicle. The governmental crap is the responsibility of the buyer.

 

What in the world are you talking about? All Edges are made in Canada, that doesn't make the VIN "Canadian". The VIN should show that the vehicle is built in Canada, but it should also be registered in various databases as to it's original point of sale. Ford certifies it's products to be suitable for sale in various markets, it tracks that certification through the VIN number. Ford builds Edges in Canada that are sold in China. Just because it's built in Canada, doesn't mean it can be sold in Canada.

 

When you move goods - any goods, not just vehicles - across international borders, there are many complicated import and export laws that must be handled. Many of the export laws need to be handled by exporters, not the importers. So it really needs to be both parties that are involved until all the paperwork is done. A contract is only a valid contract if it can be fulfilled without breaking any laws. if you sign a contract to sell your illegally imported vehicle, it's not a legally binding contract.

[Will S.]

Seems this thread is dead, but I want to clear something up, re the postition I took in my previous replies. I had missed that the OP's purchase was an A-plan price, and had I realized that, I would have agreed with Haz, and the others. This was not a routine trade-in, and the dealer cannot pay the additional costs to accept a foreign-registered vehicle, as that would be in violation of the agreement with Ford.

 

I am sorry for jumping in with my .02, and in re-reading this thread, I agree that those costs are MattyP's responsibility.