wlepse Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 First a little background; for a long time we had complained to at least two different dealers that after driving for a while we smell an odor like something has gotten overheated or is burning. We have also mentioned the persistent clunks we get in the tranny. Often when you are coasting through a yield then get on the throttle you get a clunk. We did have the TSB performed where they drop the tranny pan and this helped for a while but it is back. So after reading about all the PTU seal leaks I figured this could be the cause of the smell and if bad enough the clunking too. Well up until the second to last visit the dealers have never found anything or been able to replicate the issue. In that service they said the power steering banjo bolt was leaking. I figured this could be the cause of the odor but obviously not the clunking. Well shortly after the service the smell was back. In our last service they said it was the banjo bolt again. Well a few miles later and the smell is back. So today I finally got a chance to get under there and take a look. Luckily it does appear as if the PTU is bone dry. As you can see in the pics the seal and entire housing is clean, no residue that I can see at all. Good! But right next to the PTU on the passenger side is an XC3Z-7B155-BA which according to Google searches is a tranny filter. As you can see in the pics it is covered in something. What is confusing is the part doesn't seem to be for an Edge. Anyway, on the drivers side of the PTU I see a manifold with a banjo bolt that appears to be leaking. You can see in the pics that this has completely coated the cross member and is likely dripping on the exhaust. But this trans filter appears to be running to this same manifold. So is this the power steering banjo bolt they keep "fixing" or is this something to do with the tranny? If it is the tranny could it be causing the clunking issues? Also a bit annoyed with Ford service as there is clearly a rear diff leak too. You would think if someone complained of odors and clunking drivetrain they might check it. It is obvious from the pic it has been weeping out the breather for a while. Then I checked the engine bay and immediately noticed the coolant level is low. According to their service ticket they not only topped off the level but checked the "coolant protection." How could I lose that much fluid in 6K miles? Has anyone else noticed they don't actually do these check or do you think I have an actual leak somewhere? I am not finding any puddles in the garage, so if this did go down in 6K it had to go through the exhaust. Last, obviously by what I am seeing I don't have faith in either of the dealers I have tried. So does anyone in the NNJ area have a dealer they would recommend? Looks like Ford might get involved to help with my reverse camera issue so maybe they can steer me somewhere. Anyway I live up in Sussex and work in West Caldwell. So anything in between or around I am willing to give a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Sorry to hear about the myriad issues and the substandard service received. I know several of our members are up in the NJ area, and hope they can recommend a dealership to you. Otherwise, try a Lincoln dealership instead. If the rest of your documentation is as good as this, you should be bale to make a solid case to follow up with Ford. IMHO: Anyway, PTU looks dry that's good. Assuming it had fluid to being with, which would be logical, since you are not getting any grinding noises or anything. Still worth checking fluid level. Clunks in the transmission CAN originate from the RDU if it is short on fluid. The RDU might need to be replaced, in fact. Hopefully it will be a simple case of refilling fluid, perhaps extending the vent (a la Mustang), but it seems unlikely. Power steering fluid level: low or OK, clean or dirty? May need to be flushed as contaminants can block passageways and raise pressure leading to further leaks. Puzzled by the "filter". Will look further into this. Looks like it was phased out in 2006. Is the Edge new to you, or did you but it "nused"? Is yours one of the early 2011 builds? Wonder if it was used as a test vehicle ... Edited March 22, 2015 by WWWPerfA_ZN0W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yeah hoping someone has a suggestion or the local rep can recommend a dealer. Just frustrated since both leaks have been there a while. They don't get caked up like that over night and one would think if someone complains of a driveline clunk you would check the entire driveline. I didn't get a chance to check the PTU fluid. Since it is bone dry all around I figure it is good. Maybe I will look at it myself in the summer. While the rear diff is obviously leaking I don't think the clunk is coming from there. The only noise I hear from back there is a slight whine which is probably a wheel bearing starting to go. I could be wrong but it still feels like the original issue that the TSB was to address. The only difference is I remember the other happening when you almost came to a complete stop then got on it. Now one of the places it happens I am coasting down a hill doing may 35mph with slight breaking waiting for an opening to turn left. If I am still moving and get on it to cross the lane it will clunk. Seems like the tranny is disengaging maybe for economy and when I get on it the gear slams in. Honestly didn't check any other fluid levels, originally I was just refilling the wash fluid and noticed the coolant looked low. As for the filter, yeah I am a little confused too. I saw the same link and the Edge wasn't listed so I don't know what to think. I am assuming it is a trans filter but this line runs to that manifold with a leaking banjo bolt. Could this be something for the power steering and this is the bolt they have already replaced twice? Just doesn't make sense to have power steering lines way down there. As for your other question, the vehicle was purchased NEW from a dealer by my office. The mileage wasn't 0 but I don't recall it being much more than a few test drives, maybe 150-200 miles. I think it was a dealer trade, or at least that is what I remember the sales guy saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 OK so this is curious...I looked up the p/n listed for the banjo bolt (8E5Z-3A705-A) and the diagram it pulls up does show a hose in the system with a similar filter labeled as #8. I did find this assembly listed but it only says return hose, doesn't mention the cylinder in the middle. Out of curiosity...a long time ago we had to have a power steering hard line bent due to a hooting sound it would make when turning right I think...do you think that line could be comprimised and causing excess back pressure on the rest of the system causing this continual leak? I just can't wrap my head around a banjo bolt going bad 3x's...feel like something else has to be causing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Mandrel bends are the best bends I know of when it comes to hard lines, but if the tech is skilled, they can hand bend the lines (hand tools) without causing pressure-increasing restrictions. Seen it done all the time with brake lines, so I assume power steering lines are no different. So yeah, if the bend was done incorrectly, a pressure point can be created and a path of least resistance for relief will be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Can't find a copy of the TSB now but I remember thinking it was pretty crude. They were to put a block of wood in there and pry the tube with a screwdriver I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 You mean TSB 11-9-4? http://www.revbase.com/BBBMOTOR/TSb/DownloadPdf?id=176665 TSB 11-9-4_Squeak noise when making right turns during slow parking lot maneuvers.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Ah yeah that is it...I guess I remembered what they were bending wrong. Just remembered it happened when turning to one direction and assumed it was a line. So I guess I have no reason to have a restriction in my lines. The Ford rep on the forum was going to help out with my reverse cam issue, so I sent her a link to this thread just so they know about this too. At this point I have asked the wife not to drive it since we are getting close to the 60k mark. Even though I have had the vehicle in for the same thing several times I would rather not muddy the water by being slightly over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Feel for ya, wish I could help! Good luck with FordService, and keep us in the loop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 The Ford rep on the forum was going to help out with my reverse cam issue, so I sent her a link to this thread just so they know about this too. At this point I have asked the wife not to drive it since we are getting close to the 60k mark. Even though I have had the vehicle in for the same thing several times I would rather not muddy the water by being slightly over. Wlepse, I replied to your PM. Please check your inbox, and send over the requested info. I’ll get this escalated! Feel for ya, wish I could help! Good luck with FordService, and keep us in the loop WWWPerfA_ZN0W, Thanks for the mention, and I’m on it! Have a great week. Tricia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Tricia...thanks for the quick response. I PM'd you back with contact info. I will keep this thread updated of what they find just in case someone else has a similar leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordService Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Tricia...thanks for the quick response. I PM'd you back with contact info. I will keep this thread updated of what they find just in case someone else has a similar leak. You’re welcome, wlepse. I replied and please check your inbox. Let me know if you have any further questions. Tricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 26, 2015 Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 BTW, I think you should have that filter replaced if it is indeed in the power steering fluid circuit. It may be clogging up/clogged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2015 Yeah...I set up a service visit for next week and plan on putting together a document with all the pictures and concerns I have. This weekend I hope to take a closer look at things and double check fluid levels on power steering and tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 Ugh...here we go again. Was contacted by Ford rep and was told to set up service which I did. I sent him a bunch of info on what I found and what I was concerned about besides the tranny issues, one of which is the low coolant noted above and the other was my reverse cam which was discussed in a nother thread. Then I got a call from the dealer...back to the same game of needing to pay for a diagnostic fee to have them look at these issues. I believe the issue is more with the reverse cam and coolant but I am not 100% sure. So I contacted my Ford rep and was basically told they won't do the tests as a courtesy, I have to pay for the diagnostics unless the issue is a warranty issue. Basically I am asking them to do the following; besides checking out these tranny leaks. 1) Since the coolant is significantly below the low mark and they claim to have topped this off about 6k ago I requested a pressure test. Basically I just want to rule out a head gasket issue. Should be a quick test. 2) The reverse cam issue seems like the APIM is gone wonky again. I think we have had it replaced 2 or 3 times already. All I requested is that they test the APIM since it is still covered under warranty. Seems like these are simple enough tests and requests that they could do this as a courtesy...especially given that the APIM is a known problem. Just not happy with Ford or their service at this point. I have never had this many issues with a vehicle nor had a dealer/mfg be so difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 How much is the fee they are asking? If they find something covered by warranty, they probably will waive the fee and you will pay deductible if any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbwt Posted March 30, 2015 Report Share Posted March 30, 2015 I would approach them on one issue at a time. Mixing multiple issues may not work in your favor. Attack the APIM warranty angle first to get the camera working. Then attack the other issue/s This way they may be more willing to take on your problem if they are working on just one. Sort of like giving them a sense of accomplishment. Overwhelming people with multiple issues tends to make them back off. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) It isn’t the amount of the diagnostic fee I take exception to; it is the reason for it. The drivetrain clunks and leaking rear diff should be covered under powertrain warranty. The leaking filter/banjo bolt should be covered either under powertrain warranty or bumper to bumper. Even though I am past 36K, we brought the vehicle to the same dealer complaining of a groan in the power steering. This was at 35k miles and was the first time they replaced the banjo bolt. Then they did it again but it is still leaking. So it seems to me like this banjo bolt is a band aid fix which only temporarily solves the leak. The APIM is a known trouble part and I would think as a courtesy they could authorize testing it. Especially since I just tested the A/V input in the console and that doesn’t work either. Not to mention I have shown that rebooting the system can temporarily fix things…so I am concerned that they could do something similar but not really fix it like the banjo bolt leak. The coolant…well if they won’t do a 10 minute pressure test I can do it at work one day at lunch. But yes, to your point, if the work is warrantied there would be no diagnostic fee. As for the suggestion to give them more manageable things to address…I agree that would be preferable but my powertrain is about to run out and I was hoping that having a Ford corporate rep working on this would make it go smoothly. Obviously this is not the case. Edited March 31, 2015 by wlepse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think the dealership has its' back up at this point, for whatever reason, not that I believe they are particularly competent from what you are telling me. Warranty work doesn't pay as well as regular service anyway, so they will generally do the minimum needed (it's business, right?). I really don't think Ford can control a dealership's actions to any great degree unless they are so outrageous as to be disenfrachised completely. Now, I think you are justified in requesting the dealership to send a Ford engineer down to inspect your vehicle. And if they refuse, work with FordService to get one down there. I am sure the engineer can figure out how to get your Edge fixed correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I am really not sure how to read this...not sure if the dealer is on the defensive or if they have their back against the wall because corporate isn't willing to authorize two simple diagnostic tests. One of which is for a known problem part. Just so frustrating, have never had an ownership experience like this. Never had issues with Honda, Acura, Nissan, Toyota, Audi or Subaru. Bring it in under warranty they look at it and fix it or tell you why the problem isn't covered. And even then there is wiggle room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls973800 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Since the coolant is significantly below the low mark and they claim to have topped this off about 6k ago I requested a pressure test. Basically I just want to rule out a head gasket issue. Should be a quick test. Any radiator shop should do a pressure check for no charge. Or you could borrow the test kit from most major auto repair parts stores by just leaving a deposit for the kit. Had you kept an eye on the coolant level over those 6K miles? It sounds like this is the first time you checked it since they topped it off 6K ago. If it took 6K miles to lower the level instead of quickly loosing it, you may just have a small hose leak, clamp leak, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 No doubt a pressure test is easy enough to complete...I guess that is part of the reason I am a bit pissed. Seems like with the drivetrain leaks they could do a quick courtesy test just to verify the head gasket is OK. As for checking the level...to be honest I didn't. But with that said I didn't check it after it was in for service either. Part of me wonders if it was even topped off to begin with. Still I shouldn't be losing fluid whether the interval was 6k or 10k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thought I'd throw in the PS Leak TSB in for good measure. Supposedly only pertains to 07-08 Edge/MKX TSB 07-25-14 POWER STEERING FLUID LEAKS FROM STEERING RACK AND PUMP ATTACHMENT JOINTS 2007-08 Edge.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlepse Posted March 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Txs...but this is all going to have to wait. Wife had an accident today and we are still in the ER so dont have the time to deal with this right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 Oh man! So sorry to hear. Best wishes for speedy recovery, hope the damage to her was minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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