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Edge not starting in heat.


di2013

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I bought a 2013 Edge in 2/2014. It was a Ford Executive Lease Vehicle so I know it was taken care of. When the weather is hot, the car does not like to start. Usually it takes trying for 10-15 minutes. I thought it was the battery when it happened last year but after replacing the battery the problem continued. In cooler weather I have zero problems and I love my Edge. Now (May 2015) it is happening again. Hot weather means my Edge does not like to start.

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Have you checked the battery cable terminals, are they attached securely? Could be a short somewhere, possibly a faulty ignition cylinder. Is the battery spec'd for at least 600 CCAs? You must see some pretty high temps in NV, and if so, that will eat batteries for lunch. Def make sure you have a strong battery to start with.

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Does the car crank normally and just not fire or is the cranking slow. Slow cranking could be a bad battery, Starter or solenoid, or all the wiring between like cables.

Normal cranking and no start would be an ignition or fuel problem. Probably electrical like coils (which I doubt cause a bunch wouldn't fail together and if one did the car would start and just misfire.) Crank position or cam position sensor, or a bunch more. Do you hear the fuel pump when you turn the car on and not try to start it?

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This happens when the car sits in in the hot sun for hours (while I'm at work). The battery is fine. The door locks function, the radio is working, the A/C blowing, even check the warnings. There is no sound, not clicking, no firing, no cranking, just nothing when I turn the key to ignition. Sometimes after driving then having the car sit (like at the grocery store) it takes 2 or three tries to get it to start. But, this only happens when it's hot, and it's hot in Nevada but not so hot it melts my car...

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It could be the neutral safety switch. This prevents the car from starting if the car isn't in park or neutral. in the Edge it is really a computer function that runs off of the gear selector to tell the trans what position it is in. Try putting the car in neutral instead of park and see if this helps and try moving the selector around it could also be a starter that doesn't like the heat.

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The modern starting system is very complicated and is involved with several related systems.

 

Condition Possible Sources Action
The engine does not crank Battery
Fuse(s)
Starter motor
Circuitry
PCM
Starter motor relay
Ignition switch
Start diode
Anti-theft system

 

 

Principles of Operation

The starting system is electronically controlled by the Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS). PATS is controlled by the Instrument Cluster (IC). PATS recognizes the correct electronically coded ignition key and the IC will send a message to the PCM to provide a ground for the starter relay. The energized relay provides voltage to the starter solenoid, thereby allowing the starter motor to activate.

 

Normal Operation

Under normal operation, constant power is supplied to the starter motor relay from the Battery Junction Box (BJB) fuse 41 (30A). When the ignition switch is turned in the START position and held, with the vehicle in PARK or NEUTRAL, power flows to the starter motor relay through CDC35 (BU/WH). A ground is supplied through circuit CDC12 (YE) from the PCM causing the starter motor relay coil to energize and the relay contacts close. This allows power to be supplied from the starter motor relay contacts which then flows through circuit CDC25 (BN/GN) to the starter solenoid. The solenoid is grounded at the starter motor. Energizing the starter solenoid will engage the starter drive into the ring gear and closes the solenoid contacts allowing power directly from the battery through circuit SDC02 (RD) to the starter motor to start the engine.

 

Pinpoint testing has checking the battery first, then checking for any any DTC codes. If you get a P1260 code, its related the the antitheft system. All other codes are covered in the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis manual. If no codes were recovered, troubleshooting then checks the PCM sensor (transmission range sensor to see if it's showing the transmission is in park and/or neutral). After that the starter then the power control.

 

My guess is that it's possible that either the relay or diode is opening when hot. (Diodes are known to fail when hot).

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Solenoid is grounded to starter motor right? Nice and warm , since the starter is bolted to the engine......

 

Slow cranking many times dsue to failing armature windings in starter.(battery, cables, etc. ruiled out)

 

Hot engine and no cranking= failing starter solenoid on GM engines ( my only experience since 70's ;-) )

 

Please let us know failure...cheers

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  • 1 month later...

I live in Georgia and I am having a similar problem. When it's hot (> 90) and sunny the car will not start in the afternoon. Everything works, lights, AC blower, radio,... except the engine does not turn over and I don't hear the solenoid noise. If I leave the door open for a few seconds it will start. The battery and alternator have been replaced by the dealership and they kept the car for several days and couldn't recreate the problem - that was during a cool spell and I didn't recognize the internal heat issue then.

 

Have you had any luck resolving your issue?

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The key is in the ignition when it fails to start, I do not have the remote start feature. I have had the problem with both keys. I do not have the key in the ignition when I open the door, I usually step out of the car. I don't have any unusual indications on the dash, I have not seen the flashing security light but I might not be holding the key in the start position long enough based on other comments I have read.

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Kinda sounds like it doesn't recognize that it's in park. (Same condition as if you were attempting to start the car while in gear).

 

Would it be possible that the thingie (Ford garage's term for parts they don't know the purpose of) that senses when the car is in park, might be failing in severe heat?

 

As an experiment, try wiggling the shifter next time.

Edited by enigma-2
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If that works, this TSB might apply:

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/18349-shift-to-park-or-transmission-not-in-park-message-discharged-battery-due-to-shift-to-park-light-on-unable-to-remove-ikt/

Kinda sounds like it doesn't recognize that it's in park. (Same condition as if you were attempting to start the car while in gear).

Would it be possible that the thingie (Ford garage's term for parts they don't know the purpose of) that senses when the car is in park, might be failing in severe heat?

As an experiment, try wiggling the shifter next time.

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Left it outside this weekend. Had the fail to start issue on Saturday -temp was 95 and sunny. Moved the shift lever around and even moved it to neutral, no effect on starting. When it was in neutral the "shift to park" light came on. No other warnings came up and the security warning light did not come on or flash. The only symbols that came up were the parking brake light and the amber engine light. My foot was on the brake and I tried both keys.

 

After about 10 minutes, with the door open, if started normally.

 

Dropped it at the dealer this morning with all the above information. Hopefully they can create the fault and diagnose it.

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It finally failed at the dealer and they found the problem to be the ignition switch. They replaced the switch and kept the car for a couple of extra days to test it. I have had the car since Thursday and it has been super hot, it has started every time. Looks like this one is solved. Thanks for everybody's input.

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Generally speaking .. on a 2013 its not going to be a mechanical failure like the starter solenoid. If it makes it past the one month mark, they'll last for the "normal life period"

 

The term "short" is a scary and usually a catastrophic event. If the circuit in question is not fuse protected, a short will result in a destroyed wire and in most cases, smoke and secondary damage to surrounding wires, molding etc.

An "OPEN" is more likely which is a break in the connection integrity (on the positive side) or on the grounding side. This is usually not destructive and results in "X" hardware just not working, randomly.

 

To further complicate things, in our newer hi-tech Edge's there are far less standard 12VDC feeds to and from devices. There are "logic lines" that are on much smaller wires and control "modules" and other computers and are either "hi" or "low" with respect to ground. Thereby triggering said function On or Off, Yes, or No. etc.

 

So, the sensor for the "is vehicle in park" condition is suffering a faulty ground, what should be "high" for "Yes, I'm in park, its ok to start" is seen a low "I'm not in park" and hence the vehicle won't start.

 

So, bad sensor, bad wiring, bad connectors. There are tests for each of these that the tech could run thru. In time he'll gain experience and would look at "X" first.

 

All that being said .. computers do not like excessive heat. If there's going to be an issue, it'll happen in an elevated thermal environment. It might even be something as odd ball as a "variance" on the control module made worse by the heat. Heat it up and again that "high" signal is seen as a "low". Again, something a tech can connect into a see. BUT it has to be in fail mode when he looks. I doubt this would save a fail code.

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  • 2 weeks later...

IN the 80's, I had a new GM company car. The car stopped dead in the street, and they towed the vehicle to a Buick dealer.

 

The service manager said that I ran out of gas. I told him that I had to go from CHicago to Indianapolis, and that I would be very irate if

I could not start the vehicle. I told them that the ignition module failed.

 

I went to start the car after it was running for some time and it would not start. I helped the mechanic push it into a stall. He burned his hands checking

the ignition module. He had to replace it.

 

I was a little ticked off, so I approached the sevice manager and told him that I was from Buick service divison and I was checking on the efficacy of their

mechanics and dealership. I handed him my card which read; Dupont Clinical Systems Service Representative...he regained his breath ;)

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  • 4 weeks later...

It finally failed at the dealer and they found the problem to be the ignition switch. They replaced the switch and kept the car for a couple of extra days to test it. I have had the car since Thursday and it has been super hot, it has started every time. Looks like this one is solved. Thanks for everybody's input.

I have the exact same problem. Actually reading your post gave me some relief that i'm not the only person out there.

However, I do live in Riyadh Saudi Arabia. I have an appointment with the dealer next Sunday at 7:30 am. That is really worrying me, because it never fails in the morning! Well at least now i can tell them to check the ignition switch.

 

Thanks for sharing the feedback.

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  • 1 year later...

My 2011 Edge is doing this exact same thing (but keeping the door open seems to have nothing to do with it, and it never takes more than a few seconds, but it's not a smooth start for sure. Does it every time it's warm/hot out. Cold out is never an issue.).

 

*** It is not a key ignition. It's push button. ***

 

They changed the battery and some other sensor awhile back when it was under 100,000 warranty. Out of warranty now. Do you think it could be the same thing with mine?

In TX here, and the summers are VERY hot.

Edited by ELT
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