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Rough Idle When Cold/P0301 Code - coolant intrusion - TSB 22-2133

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Thanks for the info, guys. Just so I can be prepared, what is the actual issue with these engines to where not even a gasket will fix it?

 

and I domy know that I’m necessarily losing coolant, but air is definitely getting into the system somehow. I noticed the level had dropped since I burped it a few days ago, so I checked the level on a cold engine and it had dropped slightly below minimum on the overflow jug. However when I unscrewed the cap, air escaped and the level rose back up.

Edited by 17Ville2.0

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Help!!…. My 16 Ford edge is driving me nuts!!!….. water noise when I turn car on and idling,  during  acceleration (while on park), during driving (streets, up hill, down hill, coming to a stop) not so much when on freeway. Currently No other symptoms (no over heating, no coolant loss/leaks, ac/heater working) I have had 3different mechanics look at it, I had thermostat replaced(due to coolant backflow /replacement resolved that)  radiator cap replaced (just incase), cooling system burped/bled, AC drain checked for clog( was advice no clog). Nothing has helped with loud annoying water noise. Sound of Water rushing through.

** I noticed it all after coolant flush**
i don’t know if i should have the coolant flushed again or what to do. I’m out of ideas 💡 

Edited by Dulce

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possibly air in the cooling system.

 

what engine in your Edge? 2.0/3.5/2.7? ecoboosts are more prone to developing air pockets during coolant flushes, and can be a devil to get out on the 2.0.  3.5 is pretty good about it, 2.7 can be more troublesome.

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2.0 Engine size 

yes we believe it’s possible air in cooling system but with no luck to take air out. 

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for what it is worth.. 

I had what i thought was a boiling coolant sound (more of a gentle bubbling sound) in the rear turbo when i came off the highway on hot days.

One day i turned off my A/C to hear it better.. and it stopped.

It turns out, i was hearing the refrigerant boiling in the evaporator.

 

air in the cooling system will usually burp itself out if the reservoir / header tank is kept on the high side of the range, unless its a large pocket of air, then you'll crack a head before it purges itself on some engines

Vacuum filling is the only answer for those cases

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since you have a gen 2 with a 2.0, i would make sure a coolant intrusion issue is not in progress.

 

check coolant level regularly, should pretty much hold steady with engine off and at ambient.

 

if the CEL ever flashes, you may be looking at a block replacement in the future.  Ford has issued a TSB for this issue

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jBJQQtJ635aSGsMyyFRKCFyFNNo1KnNw/view?usp=sharing

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So I was just advised I need a whole new engine. They said water in cylinders due to possible gasket broken/cracked and it’s recommended to get a whole new engine due to cost of just replacing the gasket and having issues later requiring new engine. 😩

9E8B0C02-FF1A-4E0E-B2A3-CF84F137CB81.jpeg

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10 hours ago, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

since you have a gen 2 with a 2.0, i would make sure a coolant intrusion issue is not in progress.

 

check coolant level regularly, should pretty much hold steady with engine off and at ambient.

 

if the CEL ever flashes, you may be looking at a block replacement in the future.  Ford has issued a TSB for this issue

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jBJQQtJ635aSGsMyyFRKCFyFNNo1KnNw/view?usp=sharing

I just opened the link… going to read it. I’m so stressed. I can’t believe just 5 yrs old and it needs new engine. I kept it well maintained and just put over $400 on maintenance 

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sorry amigo.  this has been bad news for many many members on our FB pages as well :(  Ford corporate to date has helped cover some/most of the bill in some cases tho, when the mileage is reasonable.  I would apply to them for assistance, the dealer may provide support in this regard, ask them.  The numbers (%ages) may not support it, but we would like to see at least a Customer Satisfaction Program bulletin issued on it.

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56 minutes ago, WWWPerfA_ZN0W said:

sorry amigo.  this has been bad news for many many members on our FB pages as well :(  Ford corporate to date has helped cover some/most of the bill in some cases tho, when the mileage is reasonable.  I would apply to them for assistance, the dealer may provide support in this regard, ask them.  The numbers (%ages) may not support it, but we would like to see at least a Customer Satisfaction Program bulletin issued on it.

I will take all the help I can get. I still owe $14k on my car loan so seen it’s going to cost me about $8k or more (I’m just guessing I don’t really know the price) really hurts. At this point I guess taking out a loan to get new engine 😬. Thank you all for your kindness and time to share your thoughts. This is awesome 🤩 

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My work associate had his replaced by a good indy shop, who bought the new long block from Ford and it came to around $4,500 for the whole job, with no help from Ford.

 

I suggest that we merge this with the existing thread on the issue.

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4 hours ago, 1004ron said:

My work associate had his replaced by a good indy shop, who bought the new long block from Ford and it came to around $4,500 for the whole job, with no help from Ford.

 

I suggest that we merge this with the existing thread on the issue.

So now that I’m little more calm and not running like “a chicken without a head” I was reading everything carefully and a little confused in regards to the term “ long block engine” v “engine”. So do I not need a whole new engine or only the long block engine or are they the same thing? Sorry, just confused on whats what and what will definitely fix the issue? 

Edited by Dulce

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What type of gas do you use if you have had a coolant leak in the 2.0 L ecoboost engine, 2nd generation? A class action lawsuit filed claims the seals and engine were not designed correctly, causing a coolant leak that requires a total engine replacement to fix. Ford specifies high octane fuel for the engine. If you had a coolant leak, did you use only high octane fuel or did you use regular routinely? 

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most all ford engines run fine on 87 (regular) fuel.  there may be a few premium options like the Ford GT, or Shelby Cobras that require 93, but not on mass production vehicles.

 

it is recommended that ecoboost engines run on premium, for better power/knock resistance since the engines are high compression, but really only needed if you get into it often or tow regularly, live in hilly areas, etc.

 

the engines being referred to are likely 2015-2018 MY 2.0, and type of gas is irrelevant to the subject of the lawsuit.

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6 hours ago, cbaker732 said:

Ford specifies high octane fuel for the engine.

Where did you read that?  

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On 10/19/2021 at 8:10 PM, Dulce said:

I will take all the help I can get. I still owe $14k on my car loan so seen it’s going to cost me about $8k or more (I’m just guessing I don’t really know the price) really hurts. At this point I guess taking out a loan to get new engine 😬. Thank you all for your kindness and time to share your thoughts. This is awesome 🤩 

have you or your dealer contacted Ford Corporate? if the mileage on your vehicle is reasonable, they should provide assistance.  sometimes doing to mediation with the assistance of an attorney can get better results than a lawsuit if you are unable to get assistance directly.

 

As always, i highly recommend people buying used vehicles with the 2015-2018 MY 420 cleveland stickered engines tread lightly.  Buy Ford ESP and factor that into the price you pay for the vehicle.  Or avoid entirely.  This is a huge black eye for Ford, and you should not be taking it on the chin for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgo-h_LhjeE

 

 

Edited by WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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The owners manual says that high octane fuel is recommended but not required. I also remember seeing high octane recommendations when shopping for the car back in 2017. The computer system of the car should adjust timing so there is no knock when using regular (no pre-ignition from regular gas).  But high octane fuel should also give a more forceful ignition. Is that contributing to the coolant leak?  My ford dealer has changed several of the engines and does not find anything visibly wrong with any part.  Others have mentioned that the design of the engine itself is faulty but does high octane fuel contribute to its failure?

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Recommended is very different to "specifies" - main reason being that using anything less than the recommended cannot be a factor when deciding a warranty claim.

Edited by 1004ron

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12 hours ago, cbaker732 said:

What type of gas do you use if you have had a coolant leak in the 2.0 L ecoboost engine, 2nd generation? A class action lawsuit filed claims the seals and engine were not designed correctly, causing a coolant leak that requires a total engine replacement to fix. Ford specifies high octane fuel for the engine. If you had a coolant leak, did you use only high octane fuel or did you use regular routinely? 

I have always used regular gas (87). I don’t have visible coolant leak, but if coolant (water) in cylinders and loss of coolant is considered a form of leak, then yes there is a leak. 

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4 hours ago, 1004ron said:

Recommended is very different to "specifies" - main reason being that using anything less than the recommended cannot be a factor when deciding a warranty claim.

Sorry, but do you mean that because it’s only recommending something it doesn’t mean it needs it? Sorry just trying to understand.

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10 minutes ago, Dulce said:

Sorry, but do you mean that because it’s only recommending something it doesn’t mean it needs it? Sorry just trying to understand.

I see, you were responding to cbaker732 About gas usage. 

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On 8/25/2021 at 5:07 PM, Tcinci said:

My 2016 Edge with 95k just started losing coolant. Like others no sign of an external leak.  Losing about 5-6oz per day.  I’ve been watching it since I first read about this problem last year.  Guess it’s my turn.  Anyway, has anyone tried Blue Devil head gasket sealer?  I used that on an old Mazda3 head gasket leak with good results.  I’m thinking to try it here too.  

I’m sorry you are also having the issue. But I have seen it on videos but I have not tried it. 

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12 hours ago, cbaker732 said:

What type of gas do you use if you have had a coolant leak in the 2.0 L ecoboost engine, 2nd generation? A class action lawsuit filed claims the seals and engine were not designed correctly, causing a coolant leak that requires a total engine replacement to fix. Ford specifies high octane fuel for the engine. If you had a coolant leak, did you use only high octane fuel or did you use regular routinely? 

 

16 minutes ago, Dulce said:

Sorry, but do you mean that because it’s only recommending something it doesn’t mean it needs it? Sorry just trying to understand.

Because it is only a recommendation by Ford, not a specification, there may be some gain using the higher octane, but using lower octane will not damage the engine and will not be a factor in any possible warranty claim.

 

This model engines manufacturing defect is totally unrelated to the fuel used.

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