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2.0 ecoboost longevity?

boost ecoboost 2.0 2.0l engine longevity time test endurance edge

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39 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   enigma-2

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 01:57 AM

FordTechMakuloco has a good video on how to install on a Ford turbocharged engine.

As I understand it, the sensor's detect the knock and adjust the timing (and in modern engines, other systems) to run the engine as lean as possible. The computer needs a knock to set determine where the mixture is set, but maintains it so that it doesn't cause engine damage.







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#22 ONLINE   akirby

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 07:31 AM

I'll admit, I'm not well versed on these heavily computer controlled engines, however I find it hard to wrap my mind around a manufacturer WANTING to induce pre-ignition, just so it can be measured and alter the engine parameters in order to compensate, to stop what it induced to begin with!    What exactly would be the point?  

 

Because the more you advance the timing, the more power and better mpg you get.  So they advance the timing until it starts to knock, then backs off a little.  This allows you to get better performance and fuel economy on 91 or 93 octane while still being able to run ok on 87.


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#23 OFFLINE   lildisco

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 09:10 AM

Here's a link to the Catch Can install that I did on my 2.0 Ecoboost, Post #21 is the actual install pictures.

http://www.fordedgef...ecoboost/page-1

 

Here's what it caught after around 400 miles with the Catch Can installed:

 

Just a few miles over 400 since catch can was installed & decided to drain the can to see what was caught. I will admit that I spilled a little bit getting out from underneath the car, but still a decent amount for the mileage. We don't really beat on it & we mainly drive city/country roads with very little highway. Also have used full synthetic oil since around 2,000 miles.

 

IMG_20170301_201455970_zpsmt6mgvnb.jpgIMG_20170301_201528773_zps8rr6gxot.jpg

 

Edited by lildisco, 14 March 2017 - 09:11 AM.

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#24 OFFLINE   Ntrain2k

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 06:29 PM

I'll admit, I'm not well versed on these heavily computer controlled engines, however I find it hard to wrap my mind around a manufacturer WANTING to induce pre-ignition, just so it can be measured and alter the engine parameters in order to compensate, to stop what it induced to begin with!    What exactly would be the point?  

 

Generally the knock sensors are only used to pull timing when knock is detected. The PCM/ECM will generate a "knock" table that it uses for spark advance.The A/F ratio is all adjusted through the primary O2 sensors. The PCM/ECM sets a short term and long term fuel trims based on what is seen on the O2 ratio.

 

They work together as a system or whole, but independent in function, if that makes sense.

 

A small handful of preignition or detonation events rarely will damage a modern passenger car engine as long as the system is functioning properly. It is able to pull timing that fast.

 

If the engine is heavily modified or has other issues then it can become a problem.


Edited by Ntrain2k, 14 March 2017 - 06:31 PM.

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#25 OFFLINE   junehhan

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:51 PM

Alan is exactly right. I remember back in the old days when Ford actually recommended against running a higher octane fuel than originally needed as it could create drivability problems. That is no longer the case with most of Ford's lineup. Ford has been using an engine timing strategy since about 2008/2009 in most of their engines that constantly seeks for a higher octane fuel. This is very similar to how Porsche calibrates their engines in that independent enthusiasts were able to determine on their Porsches that performance gains were seen till you hit about 98 octane fuel. I suspect that Ford does not use as aggressive of a strategy, but remember that Ford rates nearly all of their engines on premium fuel now which indicates that the octane seeking strategy is in play.

 

Recently on the Edge Sport front, a couple of the guys running the Livernois 93 octane tunes on their Sports were able to pick up decent performance gains by running 101 octane race fuel. It made for a 0.2-0.3 second increase in the 1/4 mile.


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#26 OFFLINE   unca waldo

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:17 AM

So, if I understand it correctly, Ford engineers designed into the system, a set-up that advances timing to the point pre-ignition becomes a factor, then uses that information to set the engine parameters.  As a result, the engine computer will compensate for lower octane by backing down the "base" timing, right.

If that is the case, wouldn't it hold true that by using the higher octane fuels, the computer will set the "base" timing at a more advanced state and "listen", then compensate when it detects knock?  If true, the engine computer is allowing the motor to run with more advance, producing more power and better economy... or am I missing something?


Edited by unca waldo, 16 March 2017 - 01:18 AM.

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#27 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:05 AM

That about sums it up, yes.  The Edge did not get such factory programming till the 2011 MY.



#28 OFFLINE   Ntrain2k

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:44 AM

So, if I understand it correctly, Ford engineers designed into the system, a set-up that advances timing to the point pre-ignition becomes a factor, then uses that information to set the engine parameters.  As a result, the engine computer will compensate for lower octane by backing down the "base" timing, right.

If that is the case, wouldn't it hold true that by using the higher octane fuels, the computer will set the "base" timing at a more advanced state and "listen", then compensate when it detects knock?  If true, the engine computer is allowing the motor to run with more advance, producing more power and better economy... or am I missing something?

 

Correct. Almost all manufacturers use this strategy now with fuel injected engines, even in the marine market.
 



#29 OFFLINE   junehhan

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:05 PM

You guys have it! That is exactly why the narrative that running premium fuel will not improve performance or fuel economy is not necessarily true like all the so called consumer experts still continue to spout from their pie holes. Ford is careful in how they word this because they do not want people to get spooked thinking that they absolutely have to run premium fuel in everything. The gains are going to be the greatest in the Ecoboost lineup where I suspect that they vary more than just engine timing based on what octane fuel is in the tank.



#30 OFFLINE   Gimp

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 08:39 AM

 

150K is the minimum that they test for.  There plenty of ecoboost engines over 150K.

Well, after a couple of instances of the check engine light coming on last month and then again last week,  I've just been diagnosed as having a turbo boost leak at 121,000 miles.  I was really hoping that I wouldn't see a problem like this until after 150K.



#31 OFFLINE   lildisco

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 09:48 AM

A boost leak is different than turbo failure/engine failure, it could be from many different things such as a bad Bypass Valve, or dry rotted line or coupler.  Did you receive any other information than just a boost leak?


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#32 OFFLINE   Gimp

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:12 AM

A boost leak is different than turbo failure/engine failure, it could be from many different things such as a bad Bypass Valve, or dry rotted line or coupler.  Did you receive any other information than just a boost leak?

In late April at about 118,000 miles the check engine light came on for the first time with this vehicle.  Ford mechanics evaluated the problem and detected a lack of boost but could not find the source of the problem.  So they changed my air filter which didn't need to be changed, reset the light and advised me to wait for further developments.  It took almost exactly a month for the the check engine light to come on again.  I'd just purchased new O2 sensors and was going to change them over Memorial Day weekend, but decided to take the vehicle to a nearby non-dealership auto shop instead.  They initially detected a possible exhaust system leak which was then traced up to the turbo.  They can't find the leak either.  They did mention tightening some loose hoses (thanks Ford mechanic) but that wasn't the source of the problem.  I've always bought new cars, maintained them well and driven them to high mileage points.  Eventually the problems start, the maintenance increases, and the reliability starts to go down.  I just don't have the tolerance for that anymore so perhaps it's time for me to help stimulate the economy with a new vehicle.



#33 OFFLINE   lildisco

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 10:30 AM

So, you're upset that there's a boost leak at 118,000 miles & 2 mechanics can't pinpoint the problem?

I can understand a little frustration, but at 118,000, there's going to be things needing to be replaced, regardless of how meticulous you've kept the vehicle maintained.

It probably would be cheaper to repair your current edge than to buy a new vehicle, but i can also understand not wanting potential future problems too. Even new vehicles have bugs that need to be worked out, double edged sword i guess

#34 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 02 June 2017 - 11:06 AM

When you say "Ford", Gimp, I assume you meant a dealership?  I am going to suggest the obvious:  try another dealership, preferably a Lincoln dealership with experienced service techs.  Get Ford engineering involved, you do have to ask the dealership to request it tho.

 

The most common boost leak problem has indeed been with loose hoses because Ford in its' wisdom does not clamp all of them on some engines.  But it could be a torn seal on a wastgate, or a broken spring therein.  obviously the boost leak has not gotten large enough to set a code, but it would be pretty big by then and easy to locate.


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#35 OFFLINE   2011edgese

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:32 PM

What have you guys done to minimize the carbon buildup? I bought a used 2015 titanium with 36k. Noticed the tail pipes cooked with blackness. Ivr noticed this on all thr ecoboost engines, thus i figured its normal. I ended up polishing the blackness off amd keeping a eye. PRIOR 2011 edge base model had whistle clean pipes. [6 cyl no ecoboost]

Edited by 2011edgese, 12 September 2017 - 06:33 PM.

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#36 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:00 PM

You can safelu use E15 if it is available. Increasing oxygenates in the fuel actually helps keep the soot in the exhaust system to a minimum. Dont recommend going iver E18 without a tune tho.

As far as the carbon buildup, methanol injection is the best safest way to resolve it, but using the lowest volatility full synthetic oil will help. There are now GDI induction services available that should be considered as maintenance, not fixit. So start early, do it yearly if going that route.

#37 OFFLINE   2011edgese

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:29 PM

Ahh ok. Ill keep it on mind.

#38 OFFLINE   lildisco

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:44 PM

It has to do with tuning & quality of fuel & oil & your right foot. The more you push the fun pedal, the turbo spools, which is a chain reaction of sorts. Turbo spools, which requires more fuel & the factory tune means it's going to run rich (better to run rich than lean) & expel out carbon & stuff down the exhaust. Higher quality fuel burns better than the lesser quality fuel (Stay with Top Tier Gas) & your tips will stay cleaner longer.

I just consider cleaning the tips, part of my car wash procedure. Takes less than 5 minutes to do both tips.

An Oil Catch Can is a good start to keep the extra junk from making it into the exhaust & engine. Will it stop it completely no, but your engine would be healthier not having all that blow by & coking developing on your intake valves.
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#39 OFFLINE   2011edgese

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 07:53 PM

Lildisco... good explaination. Oil catch can makes sense. Might consider it. I have also read her i think, on this forum.... that running the car at 100mph once in a while will clean the valbe buildup. Any thoughts on that?
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#40 OFFLINE   lildisco

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:53 AM

Highly doubt breaking the law will help with coking. If you understand what coking is, then no matter how many times you redline/max out your car, you can't clean oil/dirt/debris off the back of your intake valves.
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