Rough Idle When Cold/P0301 Code - coolant intrusion - TSB 22-2133 & TSB 22-2229 - 2.0L Ecoboost

[2015Edge2015]

On 10/28/2021 at 8:48 AM, Dulce said:

2016 Ford edge 2.0 108k+ mileage falls under the (TSB 19-2346) and needs new engine block. 
- currently my car has shown no signs of over heating

- does have rough start 

- some coolant loss but not alot at once

- water noise 

I have decided to just keep driving it and just check coolant levels to make sure it doesn’t overheat? I will keep you guys posted see how long it last, wish me luck ??

I'm in the same boat with you. Exact. Mines seems to eat about 1/4 a cup of coolan daily. So takes about a week to see a drop that's half a inch below the line. I'm thinking of just driving it and add water once a week. This possibly will be my last ford.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

arbitration will have more positive results than lawsuits, going by past history.  you should find a law firm that is doing arbitration with ford, if you cannot get assistance by applying to them directly.

 

[2015Edge2015]

Quick question. If rhe 2.0L get the long block replacement, what exactly gets replaced? Do you essentially get a brand new engine? Like the top end head gets replaced aswell with a new head and valves? What gets reused? Like does the turbo also get replaced with a new one or do they reinstall your old turbo? Debating if the 8k is worth dropping for it or just move one from the car.

Edited January 1, 2022 by 2015Edge2015

[Cerberus]

Generally a long block is defined as everything except intake and exhaust manifolds, brackets etc,, and sometimes does not include valvecovers and oil pans etc

 

Short block is as above minus the head and oil pan

[Dulce]

On 10/28/2021 at 8:48 AM, Dulce said:

2016 Ford edge 2.0 108k+ mileage falls under the (TSB 19-2346) and needs new engine block. 
- currently my car has shown no signs of over heating

- does have rough start 

- some coolant loss but not alot at once

- water noise 

I have decided to just keep driving it and just check coolant levels to make sure it doesn’t overheat? I will keep you guys posted see how long it last, wish me luck ??

Happy New Year Everyone ?,

 Mid November I added K-Seal to my coolant reservoir.

About a week after I poured the K -seal, the water noise pretty much resolved, my heater started working again and the engine light went off (disappeared/ not on anymore). 

I still have coolant loss about the same amount. I had one incident were car did not want to turn on at all.Turned ac/heater off and yup car turned on (no problem since then even with heater/ac on).
Had two incidents were thermostat suddenly jump to  overheat car alarm when off. Pulled over, turned off car no smoke or sign of it over heating coolant level was good. Turned car back on almost immediately and back to normal like nothing , drove it home 200+miles. 
Still has a slight rough start at times, still fill up coolant every so often depending how far I drive. It seems it only resolved the water noise and engine light turned off. 
Does it work ???…… I don’t really know lol !!

 

[2015Edge2015]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:41 AM, Dulce said:

Happy New Year Everyone ?,

 Mid November I added K-Seal to my coolant reservoir.

About a week after I poured the K -seal, the water noise pretty much resolved, my heater started working again and the engine light went off (disappeared/ not on anymore). 

I still have coolant loss about the same amount. I had one incident were car did not want to turn on at all.Turned ac/heater off and yup car turned on (no problem since then even with heater/ac on).
Had two incidents were thermostat suddenly jump to  overheat car alarm when off. Pulled over, turned off car no smoke or sign of it over heating coolant level was good. Turned car back on almost immediately and back to normal like nothing , drove it home 200+miles. 
Still has a slight rough start at times, still fill up coolant every so often depending how far I drive. It seems it only resolved the water noise and engine light turned off. 
Does it work ???…… I don’t really know lol !!

 

I hear good stuff on blue devil. Scared to try it! Business at 150k and started to show all the symptoms.  So I know I need a new engine. And doing the same... just add the water that it looses and crossing my fingers it lasts longer.

[2015Edge2015]

On 1/1/2022 at 8:52 AM, Cerberus said:

Generally a long block is defined as everything except intake and exhaust manifolds, brackets etc,, and sometimes does not include valvecovers and oil pans etc

 

Short block is as above minus the head and oil pan

Sorry.. I'm a total noob to this. When you said everything but the manifold and intake manifolds.... you mean the turbo also gets replaced? I want to be clear on the turbo since lots of people say that it goes bad and it's expensive to replace. 

[Cerberus]

17 minutes ago, 2015Edge2015 said:

Sorry.. I'm a total noob to this. When you said everything but the manifold and intake manifolds.... you mean the turbo also gets replaced? I want to be clear on the turbo since lots of people say that it goes bad and it's expensive to replace. 

When we are talking about either a long block or a short block, we are talking about the core of your engine. This includes the engine block and what is inside in (crank, rods, pistons, camshaft if applicable)

Short block does not include the head, long block does.

So we are talking about the engine from the heart out.

Turbos would have been covered by the etc category of my previous reply.

Turbos are definitely not part of either the long block or obviously short block normal definitions. 

That doesn't necessarily mean that they would not be covered by warranty, and depending on mileage and accessibility, if an engine is being replaced, that might be a good time to do the turbo(s) as well

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

using coolant sealer products will not work in the long run, nor if you step to anything above low throttle.  ChrisFix has a video where he has tested such a product.

 

best deal is to either trade your vehicle in, or put in a nonCleveland block, OR go for a full Sport conversion ?

[edkene]

Hello All,

 

First off, I have a 2016 Ford Edge 2.0L Ecoboost SE with 63,XXX miles on it. I am the original owner. 

 

Looking for a bit of help. A while back I started experiencing a rough idle immediately after filling up my fuel tank (allowed the handle to pop; never topped it off). Shortly afterward I started having rough starts in the morning when it got cold and then it popped a CEL. I pulled the code and it was a P0301, Cylinder 1 Misfire.

 

I did some research and came across people who were reporting that the issues with rough idle immediately after a filling up a tank were typically caused by a bad Fuel Vapor Separator/Valve (part number F2GZ-9D289-A, if anyone ever needs it). I replaced it (a bit of a pain...story of another time) and I reset the ECU (disconnected the battery and stepped on the brake for about 10-15 seconds). Things were better for about a day, and then I got the rough idle while cold and it popped the P0301 again.

 

In my research I noticed a couple of people mentioned that replacing the Fuel Vapor Separator/Valve didn't always do it and that you needed to replace the Fuel Vapor Solenoid (part number 9U5Z-9F945C if anyone needs it). I got the part and replaced it (again, a bit more of a pain than I expected - story of my life). Again, I reset the ECU after replacing the unit. The vehicle started and ran fine immediately after replacing it and the next morning when it was cold. When I started it up after work I got the rough idle again and popped the same code (P0301). 

 

Question for everyone: what am I missing? This thing has all the hallmarks of a bad EGR valve (slight smell of gas, poor gas mileage, rough idle at start) but as far as I can tell these vehicles don't have it. When I look at the shop manual for the vehicle it gives the following for reasons for a P0301 code:

• Ignition System
• Fuel Injector 1 
• Running out of Fuel
• EVAP Purge Valve 
• Fuel Pressure
• Evaporative Emission System
• Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system
• Base engine
• misfire monitor neutral profile correction has not been relearned since the last mechanical repair

 

The full list of issues are:

Rough Idle When starting

Slight Smell of fuel

No rough idle for the first start or two after resetting the ECU

Changed out the Fuel Vapor Valve

Changed out the Fuel Vapor Valve Solenoid

Poor fuel economy

After start up and the engine has been running for 10-15 seconds, no more rough idle. Can normally get past it by having the engine rev for 3-5 seconds

 

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Welcome.  As soon as I saw 2016 and 2.0 and a misfire code, I was ready to cry lol.

 

It may simply be the plugs need changing.  ecoboosts eat plugs for lunch, and 60K is a good interval to change them anyway regardless of engine.

 

if a plug change/code reset does not fix the problem, you MAY be looking at a coolant intrusion problem.  check the engine label on the right side of the valve cover.  post a pic plz.  does it say Cleveland or VEP.  how is the coolant level? you will want to mark current level with a marker, then follow progress daily/weekly.

 

do you have remaining ford warranty?

[edkene]

Znow,

 

thanks for the info. I’ll take a look at the valve cover and post a pic - family has been in town and haven’t had a chance to do anything in the past couple of days. I’ll also make sure to keep a closer eye on the coolant level. 
 

One thing that I have found is that the engine actually does better when it is cold - it isn’t until after it has warmed over that the misfires occur. 
 

From what I’ve been able to read and a couple of mechanics I’ve talked to this could be a symptom of a bad ignition coil - after they warm up they can start having issues but be fine when cold. I’m going to troubleshoot some more tomorrow and see if that is the case. Either way though I’m going to replace the spark plugs since I’ll pull #1 to see how it looks anyway. 

[1004ron]

Quote

After start up and the engine has been running for 10-15 seconds, no more rough idle.

With the engine off and cooling down, the coolant which is still under some pressure makes its way into the combustion chambers, and then when its started takes some time to displace that coolant - this theory could explain what you describe, but that is speculation, which is also what the couple of mechanics were doing.

 

Before spending money on spark plugs or coils, I'd follow WWWPerfA_ZN0W   advice to check your engines place of manufacture - also pulling all plugs and visually inspecting them will also reveal if there's coolant intrusion. 

[edkene]

Thanks 1004 - I’m planning to pull plugs this afternoon. As for the engine manufacturing location, it says Cleveland Engine Plant manufactured on 14 June 2016. 
 

looked up the TSB - this could really suck if engine coolant intrusion is the issue. 

[1004ron]

24 minutes ago, edkene said:

Thanks 1004 - I’m planning to pull plugs this afternoon. As for the engine manufacturing location, it says Cleveland Engine Plant manufactured on 14 June 2016. 
 

looked up the TSB - this could really suck if engine coolant intrusion is the issue. 

With your confirmation that its a Cleveland engine makes it more likely your engine has the coolant intrusion.

 

At least now you are well informed prior contacting Ford - use all the info on hand and stress to them that its a Latent defect and you expect  an engine replacement at no cost to you.

 

A work associate/friend  is the second owner of one of these, and Ford would not commit to any assistance until they'd opened the engine to diagnose, so he didn't want to risk them declining so he bought a new engine from Ford and had an independent shop install.

 

You didn't respond to the previous question if you had an extended warranty - anyway, the extended warranty has first amount payable by you, which you should reject in this case.

[my2k2zx2]

I had this code last year in our 2016 2.0.  I replaced the plugs but it did not clear the code.  I moved the coils around and the code moved as well.  I bought a used coil and the code has yet to return.

[edkene]

1004 - I do not have the extended warranty, and since I’m at 64k miles and over 5 years since I bought it (Nov 2016) this will be *fun*

 

I am still planning on doing a bit more troubleshooting tonight (pulling plugs, swapping around the coils) to ensure that isn’t the issue, but based on the symptoms I’m leaning towards the water intrusion. Hopefully not the case though…

 

I do have an appt at the dealership to have them check it out as well. We’ll see what happens

Edited January 18, 2022 by edkene
fat fingered stuff

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

hopefully will move with the coil/plug and that's that.  if you take it to the dealership and they diagnose as a coolant intrusion problem, prob wont be able to get warranty coverage afterwards. BUT you can still possibly get assistance by mediating thru Ford corporte.

[edkene]

Sorry for the delay in an update but wanted to get everything worked out with Ford first.  
 

Took the vehicle in last week and they were backed up on getting to the vehicle - seems the local dealership has been over-booking their techs. First day didn’t get to it, finally got to it the second day. They took a look and suspected a coolant intrusion problem so pressurized the coolant system and left it overnight. The next morning they pulled the plugs (this is the method outlined by the TSB), looked for water intrusion and what do you know, I’ve got a problem. They give me a call and say it isn’t under warranty and it’ll be close to $7k to fix. 
 

I then called Ford customer service and explained the issue. Bunch of back and forth later and I’m paying less than 25% of the quoted amount and Ford is covering the rest (thank you for the “latent defect” phrase). Interesting thing I learned - the amount I’m paying and the amount Ford is paying (combined) is less than the quoted amount from the dealership. When I asked the dealership about the discrepancy I was told that my initial quote was the “customer amount” and the new amount that is being paid is the “warranty amount.”

 

I now have the parts on order and will be awaiting the repair. When dealing with Ford they said they would reimburse me for my rental vehicle cost, which is a nice and unexpected addition. 
 

On an extra note, when I first took the vehicle in to the dealership I asked if they were seeing a lot of these engines with this issue - the service adviser said that he has been seeing an awful lot of them lately. When I asked what people who are out of warranty have been doing he replied that they have normally been trading them in. I can’t imagine the hit people are taking by trading in a vehicle with a useless engine. 

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

glad Ron's advice helped you out. way to go, Ron!

[2015Edge2015]

Have any of you guys just topped off the cooland when needed? How much worse can it get besides the initial rough idle at start up? Does it eventually poor coolant inside the cylinder ? Or just trickles inside forever?

[2015Edge2015]

You need a new engine 100%. The person who sold it to you most likely knew. My 2015 is doing the same. Rough idle at start up. Now a CEL light of cyl 3 misfire. And waterfall noise.  Been told it needs a new engine by a shop. So I'm driving it and topping it off until lord knows what's going to happen. Seems like the 2.0l Cleveland engine is faulty from the factory. There's a class action lawsuit going on but haven't heard anything of it sadly. Crossing my fingers ford does the right thing . Im done with ford if not. Next car will be a Japanese suv or full electric. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by 2015Edge2015

[Dulce]

46 minutes ago, 2015Edge2015 said:

Have any of you guys just topped off the cooland when needed? How much worse can it get besides the initial rough idle at start up? Does it eventually poor coolant inside the cylinder ? Or just trickles inside forever?

I have ?… and it works fine. I have no plans in replacing my engine, just driving it till it drops. I have used the Kseal in coolant and has helped alot. I know its just a bandaid but I will continue to bandaid to keep it running. 
Note : 2016 Ford Edge current mileage 113k 

[2015Edge2015]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:57 AM, Dulce said:

I have ?… and it works fine. I have no plans in replacing my engine, just driving it till it drops. I have used the Kseal in coolant and has helped alot. I know its just a bandaid but I will continue to bandaid to keep it running. 
Note : 2016 Ford Edge current mileage 113k 

Lol! I'm doing the same. Will add water until the engines falls off. I'll probably try kseal. I heard good stuff about blue devil. Just scared to ruin my heater core with all those products!

[Paul Locke]

I have a 2014 Edge with the 2.0 Ecoboost with 100,000 miles that is leaking coolant into the engine.  No Codes or check engine light on. I have seen many posts for the 2015 and newer but none with the first gen.  Has anyone have or had this problem?  Its at the dealership now waiting for diagnosis. I am glad I have an extended warranty.