Rough Idle When Cold/P0301 Code - coolant intrusion - TSB 22-2133

[Jhensley1607]

On 11/3/2022 at 1:33 PM, Lincoln_ said:

 

 

On 2/20/2023 at 8:43 AM, wingman54 said:

Hello, newbie to this forum here.

My Edge tossed out a code of P0301 on my ECM which equates to a "Misfire on #1 Cylinder".

Took it to my local dealer, who found out the reason behind the code.

Turns out, the engine block is cracked and allowing a small amount of coolant to enter the #1 cylinder.

Long story short, I'm getting a new engine and it falls within my 60,000 mile Powertrain warranty.

In my humble opinion, this is MAJOR surgery by any dealership.

So, my question is has this happened to anyone else on this forum, and what, if any, new problems arose AFTER the engine replacement?

Comments?

TYIA!

 

 

Yes this has happened to many if you search around - the crack in the block was likely the coolant instrusion noted in the Technical Service Bulliten.  Happened to our 2016 last August right at 70,000 miles.  Carmax extended warranty saved us $8K in repair costs, and it was at the dealership for about a month for the engine replacement.

[jonathan1needham@gmail.com]

I just went through this nightmare with Ford !  My 2018 Ford Edge Titanium with the 2.0L ecoboost engine was completely problem free until 72,000 miles. Then suddenly i noticed that the coolant level was gradually dropping . At first I added coolant every 3-5 days but this began to increase significantly. Also I began to get misfire trouble coded ( P301) for cylinder number one followed by white smoke out the exhaust just after startup.  I immediately educated myself on the diagnosis from several credible you tube content providers on the subject.  The most current TSB of FORD indicates that the engine block is compremised ( due to poor engineering of the coolant passages ) and that only a complete long block replacement is the solution .  Depending on your dealer , this overall cost ranges from $6500 - $7700 !!!  After multiple discussions with FORD customer service they advised me that they could offer NO PARTICIPATION in resolving this problem and implementing the TSB ( NO FINANCIAL SUPPORT) and that the cost of a replacement engine was 100% my problem !!  There are several class action lawsuits in process regarding the coolant intrusion issues of the 1.5L ecoboost engines and now there are two ( one in Delaware and one in California ) regarding the 2.0 L ecoboost.  With zero alternatives I had my engine replaced at my cost.  Trust me when I tell you that I will be participating in any legal action against FORD on this subject. They basically had an engineering screw-up , that 'never' showed up in their engine testing and now are just hoping the luckless customers disappear . That wont be happening in my case. 

[jonathan1needham@gmail.com]

On 10/23/2021 at 2:11 PM, Dulce said:

I’m not even bothering, from the sound of it Ford is not taking responsibility for problem. I wish everyone the best on this issue, really sad. But for a huge company like Ford, I’m sure they don’t care about the little guy. So this issue is not a priority to them meaning the loss is minimal to them. So sad ? 

See My Post !

[jonathan1needham@gmail.com]

On 1/6/2023 at 9:23 AM, ImSuperCereal said:

Hi everyone,

So had to replace engine due to the terrible design of the engine causing leaking into the cylinders as I’m sure a few of you have.

I’ve ran into a bit of a conundrum and I just want to ask on here if anyone had run into the same issue after engine replacement.

I first noticed the issue when it smelled like coolant in the cab so I checked under the hood and indeed the coolant level was low. After some research I found the “TSB” (should have been a recall but you know how dealerships are sadly) I took it in and it was confirmed so long block replacement was done. The issue is, it’s been multiple months and I still smell coolant on start up. Thought maybe it was cabin air filter, so I replaced that to no avail. 
Has anyone experienced the same issue? Just wondering.

Yes sir - I just posted my story

[JayTheWorldsHero]

So after reading around this forum, I believe my 2018 2.0 may be next.  at 97,000 miles i just got a P303 code. The coolant level looks just a hair below the minimum line and I last topped it off about a month ago. I bought this car pre-owned from my local Ford Dealer and it came with 100,000 CPO Powertrain warranty. My question is, If this coolant intrusion is my problem, will this cpo warranty cover it?

[dabangsta]

1 hour ago, JayTheWorldsHero said:

So after reading around this forum, I believe my 2018 2.0 may be next.  at 97,000 miles i just got a P303 code. The coolant level looks just a hair below the minimum line and I last topped it off about a month ago. I bought this car pre-owned from my local Ford Dealer and it came with 100,000 CPO Powertrain warranty. My question is, If this coolant intrusion is my problem, will this cpo warranty cover it?

You have 2 of the issues listed for the TSB, low coolant and a DTC for a misfire. That much coolant loss in a month is probably excessive. The action is having one of the affected vehicles (you do), 2.0 (you do), and presence of coolant in the engine cylinders. I think with your 2 issues that is enough to get them to look at it, they should first do a 5 hour pressure test, if it fails, then scope the cylinder for proof of coolant entering cylinder(s).

 

I don't know if CPO warranty is the same as the "New Vehicle Limited Warranty" which they just do the work without requiring a prior approval or cost cap.

 

With only 3000 miles remaining, you don't have the luxury of refilling the coolant and seeing what happens, I don't know what all you need to do to get it documented with the current mileage and symptoms if they can't get it in in a reasonable time. My dealer told me I should get pictures of the mileage, Email her, text message her, every way to contact her so she had a paper trail.

[Haz]

Welcome to the Forum, JayTheWorldsHero!

 

TSB 22-2229 - 2015-2018 Edge + Other Models, 2.0L EcoBoost - Coolant In Cylinders, White Exhaust Smoke And_Or Illuminated MIL.pdf (document download link) describes these various applicable warranty coverages...

 

Warranty Status: Eligible under provisions of New Vehicle Limited Warranty (NVLW)/Emissions Warranty/Service Part Warranty (SPW)/Special Service Part (SSP)/Extended Service Plan (ESP) coverage. Limits/policies/prior approvals are not altered by a TSB. NVLW/Emissions Warranty/SPW/SSP/ESP coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part and verified using the OASIS part coverage tool. For repairs covered by the NVLW, completion of the procedure outlined in this TSB does not require obtaining Prior Approval or completion of a Cost Cap.

 

Your Edge's 7-year/100,000 miles Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) Powertrain coverage falls under the TSB's "Extended Service Plan (ESP)" coverage category, and your Edge's CPO Powertrain generic covered- parts list should be...

 

Engine: Cylinder block and internal lubricated parts, seals and gaskets, the cylinder heads, manifold (exhaust, intake and bolts), factoryinstalled turbocharger/supercharger units, timing chain (gears or belt), fywheel, valve covers, oil pan, timing chain cover, oil pump, water pump, thermostat, thermostat housing. (Exceptions: fuel injection components are not covered.)

Transmission: Transmission case and all internal parts, including torque converter and transfer case (all internal parts), seals, gaskets and transmission control module.

Front-Wheel Drive: Front drive housing and rear axle housing for AWD (including all internal parts), universal and constant velocity joints, axle shafs, locking rings (four-wheel-drive vehicles), seals and gaskets, and automatic front locking hubs (four-wheel drive).

Rear-Wheel Drive: Drive axle housings and front axle housing for 4x4 (including all internal parts), universal and constant velocity joints, axle shafts, seals and gaskets, and driveshafts.

 

As dabangsta mentioned, a 5-hour coolant system pressure test exhibiting a 4 psi leak-down is among the TSB's necessary qualifying symptoms.

 

If you're a curious do-it-yourself owner -- or your dealer's Service scheduling is seriously backed up -- your neighborhood auto parts store may offer a cooling system pressure tester through their tool loaning program that may require a refundable deposit equal to the tool's full purchase price.

 

If that interests you, the following is Ford's procedure from the 2018 Edge Workshop Manual...

 

Cooling System Pressure Test

 

WARNING: Always allow the engine to cool before opening the cooling system. Do not unscrew the coolant pressure relief cap when the engine is operating or the cooling system is hot. The cooling system is under pressure; steam and hot liquid can come out forcefully when the cap is loosened slightly. Failure to follow these instructions may result in serious personal injury.

 

NOTE: Vehicles have a pressure relief cap on the degas bottle and no radiator cap.

1. Turn the engine OFF.

2. Check the engine coolant level and adjust as necessary.

3. Remove the degas bottle cap. Inspect the degas bottle cap and degas bottle for any issues that would cause improper sealing, such as for cross-threading, burrs, damaged o-ring, etc. If any issues are found, INSTALL a new cap and/or degas bottle.

4. Attach the Pressure Tester (Stant 12270 or equivalent) and adaptor (Snap-On TA53 or equivalent), to the degas bottle cap. The cap must hold pressure of 145 kPa +/- 21 kPa (21 PSI +/- 3 PSI). If any issues are found, INSTALL a new cap.

5. Attach the Pressure Tester (Stant 12270 or equivalent) and adaptor (Snap-On TA52, AST ASSFZ-47, Redline RDL95-0750 or equivalent) to the degas bottle.

 

NOTICE: Do not pressurize the cooling system beyond the maximum pressure listed in the specifications table in this section, or cooling system components can be damaged.

 

NOTE: If the plunger of the pressure tester is pressed too fast, an erroneous pressure reading will result.

6. To pressurize the engine cooling system, slowly press the plunger of the pressure test pump and increase the pressure to between 124 - 138 kPa (18 - 20 PSI). Observe the gauge reading for approximately 2 minutes. Pressure should not drop during this time. If the pressure drops within this time, inspect for leaks and repair as necessary.

7. Allow the vehicle to sit for a minimum of 5 hours, or overnight.

NOTE: 2-4 psi of pressure drop is normal and expected after engine cool down.

8. If the pressure drops more than the expected range of 2-4 psi and no leaks are found and the pressure drops, the leak may be internal to the engine. Inspect the coolant for engine oil and the engine oil for coolant.
   REFER to: Engine (303-00 Engine System - General Information, Diagnosis and Testing).

9. If the pressure does not drop, remove the cooling system Pressure Tester and adaptor from degas bottle.

10. Install the degas bottle cap until it contacts the hard stop.

 

And finally, before your Edge reaches its CPO 100,000 mile Powertrain coverage limit, you have the opportunity to renew with FordProtect PowertrainCare coverage without any inspection requirement.

 

Document download links>

Cooling System Pressure Test - 2018 Edge Workshop Manual.pdf

Ford Certified Pre-Owned (CPO) Consumer Brochure - October 2018.pdf

FordProtect PowertrainCARE Brochure - October 2022.pdf

 

Good luck!

 

[garypender]

I got the dreaded bad news from the dealership. 2016 Edge 2.0 Ecoboost with only 67,200 miles has coolant leaking into the engine and will need to be replaced. This adds to the list of many failures with this car. Drivers side power door/window control module ,sunroof motor, 2 flex plates and torque converter, liftgate control module, and backup camera have all needed to be replaced since we bought the car. This car loves being in the shop more than being on the road?

[dabangsta]

While the coolant intrusion issue would be more than enough to make me not like a vehicle, the previous issues you have suffered up to the point would make it tough to keep a vehicle.

 

I have had my share of vehicles with known issues that I have had to rectify (1989 Cougar 3.8 head gaskets, 2000 Grand Marquis intake manifold), my 2017 Escape with the 1.5 and similar (more prevalent) issue as your 2.0 made me question taking it on longer trips (what it was bought to do), or the 3.5 in my 2012 Fusion and the internal water pump (it is my beat around car so less worried, but still don't want to have any problems).

 

I purposely looked for a 2019 or newer Edge (with a new and exciting EGR failure to replace the engine block issue) for that reason. We'll see how everything else goes, it had already suffered the EGR failure and been fixed before I bought it.

[Dawgster]

Great info on this thread, I have a 2017 edge with 52,000 with the dreaded coolant intrusion issue. No warranty. 

I barely put 100 miles on it in week, so watching the coolant tank is not a problem for me.

The car runs fine, sometimes a slight stutter at startup and fuel economy is down <10%.

But my question is:

Will this crack get bigger and cause the performance and drivability to worsen?

 

Can't afford a 8k repair at this time, thinking of driving it for a couple of years than trade it in.

 

Thanks in advance

Dawg

[1004ron]

42 minutes ago, Dawgster said:

But my question is:

Will this crack get bigger and cause the performance and drivability to worsen?

Welcome and sorry to hear of your predicament.

 

Yes, most certainly - just can't predict at what rate it will worsen.

 

My friend used a reputable independent and a Ford re-manufactured engine - cant recall the amount but it was less that $8K.

 

Have you been in touch with Ford Corp.?

[Dawgster]

the dealer's service manager is contacting the ford customer service dept to ask for financial assistance or a warranty price.

he didn't sound to hopeful.

 

[edkene]

1 hour ago, Dawgster said:

the dealer's service manager is contacting the ford customer service dept to ask for financial assistance or a warranty price.

he didn't sound to hopeful.

 

So - take it for what it is worth (faceless person on the interwebz) - but I would recommend reaching out to Ford Customer Service yourself. I found out that a dealership has essentially two prices - the customer price and then the price that corporate Ford pays to get work done. When I got the customer quote from the dealership to do my long block it was ~$6800. When I called and talked to Ford and got them to pay for a large chunk the price went down to around $5300 total (if I remember correctly). So, what that told me is the dealership doesn’t make as much money off of having corporate Ford pay vice having a regular customer pay. Additionally, when I first took it in and found out there was the problem, the service rep told me Ford wouldn’t do anything, etc. that turned out to not be the case when I called Ford myself. 

[Dawgster]

2 hours ago, edkene said:

So - take it for what it is worth (faceless person on the interwebz) - but I would recommend reaching out to Ford Customer Service yourself. I found out that a dealership has essentially two prices - the customer price and then the price that corporate Ford pays to get work done. When I got the customer quote from the dealership to do my long block it was ~$6800. When I called and talked to Ford and got them to pay for a large chunk the price went down to around $5300 total (if I remember correctly). So, what that told me is the dealership doesn’t make as much money off of having corporate Ford pay vice having a regular customer pay. Additionally, when I first took it in and found out there was the problem, the service rep told me Ford wouldn’t do anything, etc. that turned out to not be the case when I called Ford myself. 

thanks, I'll press the issue myself. 

 

[garypender]

I finally received the car back. Total cost to replace the engine $8,300. It has a 3 year unlimited mile warranty for parts and labor. Unfortunately neither the dealership nor I ever received word back from Ford about any assistance. Just my luck I was 6 weeks out of my 7 year- 100,000 mile extended warranty. 

[2015EdgeOwnerCA]

Hi there, 

We are going through a very similar issue but only at $80k mileage! First the check engine came on and was reading a misfire then it would go off and we thought it was just a tune up issue we would wait to resolve later and then it started overheating. Dumped a whole liter of coolant in it and it was gone in 2 days. First mechanic pressure tested it refilled the coolant to max and said to watch the levels for the next 500 miles since they couldn't find the leak. Car started overheating again a week later and took it to Ford where they found the crack in the long block and says it needs to be replaced! I have read this on other forums too which makes me feel like this is a recall issue. I am going to see what they can do about this because it is really making me not want to get another Ford. No issues before so same....very disappointed. 

[oskar27]

Recently I subscribed in FaceBook to Ford Edge Owners Group and learned about this major engine problem. Quite disappointed with Ford and especially since I love my 2016 Edge Titanium FWD with just 41k kilometers on the clock. I kind of worry with the winter ahead of us if I should trust now my Edge. Are any test possible to verify if my engine belongs to the "scrap" book? I understand that Ford ignores the problem and I wonder if there are any updates where Ford stands on this issue now.

 

Thanks

 

[oskar27]

Don't know if I'm going crazy or something folks but I posted yesterday here about my 2016 Edge Titanium 2.0L Ecoboost regarding engine coolant intrusion and I don't see my post. Was it removed/relocated?

Thanks

[dabangsta]

7 hours ago, oskar27 said:

Don't know if I'm going crazy or something folks but I posted yesterday here about my 2016 Edge Titanium 2.0L Ecoboost regarding engine coolant intrusion and I don't see my post. Was it removed/relocated?

Thanks

 

19 hours ago, oskar27 said:

Recently I subscribed in FaceBook to Ford Edge Owners Group and learned about this major engine problem. Quite disappointed with Ford and especially since I love my 2016 Edge Titanium FWD with just 41k kilometers on the clock. I kind of worry with the winter ahead of us if I should trust now my Edge. Are any test possible to verify if my engine belongs to the "scrap" book? I understand that Ford ignores the problem and I wonder if there are any updates where Ford stands on this issue now.

 

Thanks

 

So a different post than this?

 

Do you have any of the symptoms or indicators of the coolant intrusion issue or just worried about it?

 

Ford didn't ignore it, they just aren't paying for fixing it for those out of warranty (which yes, to most people, means they are ignoring it). They issued a TSB to the dealerships on indicators, range of affected vehicles, tests to perform, and in the end that a new long block is the remediation, a new block with updates so the issue doesn't happen again.

[oskar27]

Recently I learned that my 2016 Edge Titanium 2.0L Ecoboost FWD with 49100 kilometers is a contender for engine coolant intrusion. I'm very disappointed that Ford was aware of the problem and does not assist the owners financially and I don't understand how they can get away legally. As the winter approaches I like to know what happens when the fault occurs like are you able to still drive the car or it becomes dead and you need a tow? Are any steps I can take now perhaps to verify if my car is a contender for this issue? The car at the moment has been maintained properly and it is like new inside/outside and one of the best I had next to my previous 2013 Edge Limited.

Thanks

 

[oskar27]

Thanks for the reply, I just re posted in the wrong section again until I found this thread, sorry.

 

I have no problems so far with my engine she runs like new (knock on wood?) and my mileage is 49100 km. I have no extended warranty. Is it possible for me to ID the engine type I have (USA vs Spain) and if yes where do I look for it. I'm not equipped to remove anything to find this out. My VIN: 2FMPK3K90GBB63242

 

Are any steps recommended at this stage to take to prevent/extend the eventual failure?

 

Should I get in touch with Ford right now or just wait? I agree with what I read here to deal with Ford vs dealer and have no problem dealing with Ford

 

Excellent thread guys for help on this subject. Was thinking to go for a trade and get a new one but interest rates now are out of wack and perhaps I may do it after the new year since I believe in winter the rates are much better.

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

[dabangsta]

I don't know the ratio of 2.0 to 3.5 once the 2.0 was introduced, but I would have expected to see more reports of this earlier with the Edge since it got that affected engine 2 years before the Escape and Fusion. However with 1/3 the production numbers of the Edge versus the Escape and the Fusion, I guess that is why it is more apparent in those higher volume cars.

 

I had a 2017 Escape with the 1.5 that also is possibly affected by this issue. They had a CSP to reprogram it to help mitigate this issue (which I had done) by leaving the coolant pump on longer after engine shut down. If you had that done, and still had the coolant intrusion issue, there was another CSP that extended the warranty to 7 years, 84,000 miles. The car was lost in an accident at 98,000 miles so not sure if it would have failed or not. I had an extended warranty still as well on it.

 

I don't know of any attempts to help the issue not happen with the 2.0. Knowing the source of the issue I don't think there is anything that can be done. Keep up on coolant changes?

 

Many people didn't take in their 1.5 powered Fusion or Escapes for the first CSP, so no extended warranty for the issue. There was a lot of misguided details on what it changed, but the text of it was pretty straight forward in why and what they changed.

[oskar27]

Regarding my 2016 Titanium with 2.0L with 49k kilometers I had a look at the white sticker on the drivers side engine and this is what I got:

ForMoCo

BBSE  2A45i  BD  (not sure about the "i" after the 5)

GEPTA

MEXICO

00:45:47   0085

Do the above mean anything good/bad about water intrusion?

And why "MEXICO" ? I thought all Edge were made in Oakville, ON Canada

Also looked at my coolant level and its about 1/2" below MIN however car sits in the garage for 2 days now with about 0 degrees C outside and I must admit I have never checked that level before, I looked at it but never bother to notice the level. The oil on the dipstick is just clean oil. 

[1004ron]

oskar27  Take just a little time to go through this thread and you'll likely find the answers to all your questions on this subject, including a video on how to determine your engine's manufacturing location.

[oskar27]

3 hours ago, 1004ron said:

oskar27  Take just a little time to go through this thread and you'll likely find the answers to all your questions on this subject, including a video on how to determine your engine's manufacturing location.

Thanks for your time mate, I have gone thru this thread twice from page 1 to the end and although I have seen some videos, none are related to my questions. Perhaps I missed the information and if that's the case, well what can I say, there is tons of good information here and perhaps one day I will see it.