Major Upgrade (Rewrite) Details

[dr.edge]

And the vast majority of Edge owners don't care about such things - they just want to know when and where this update will be available and what it will look like.

 

Well, unless you have some data to back that up, then I guess that's just speculation on your part, isn't it?

 

 

I'll agree that there are a large number of Edge owners that don't care about this, but that's likely because they don't have MFT (like yourself).

[akirby]

Well, unless you have some data to back that up, then I guess that's just speculation on your part, isn't it?

 

I'll agree that there are a large number of Edge owners that don't care about this, but that's likely because they don't have MFT (like yourself).

 

You honestly think most 2011+ Edge owners are computer geeks who care about Flash code or processor levels? All most care about is does it work and if not when will it be fixed.

 

You also need to stop assuming that every MFT owner is having problems (they're not and we've proven it time and time again). That in no way is meant to minimize the problems that some people have had and continue to have - but you need to keep this in perspective.

[SonomaDriver]

You honestly think most 2011+ Edge owners are computer geeks who care about Flash code or processor levels? All most care about is does it work and if not when will it be fixed.

 

You also need to stop assuming that every MFT owner is having problems (they're not and we've proven it time and time again). That in no way is meant to minimize the problems that some people have had and continue to have - but you need to keep this in perspective.

 

In this day and age, computers and the software platforms are playing an increasingly large role in how a car functions. Ford built the Edge and the upper trims of many of its new models around MFT. The number of people having issues with this software is, if anything, understated. Are all affected? No I don't think so. However, the fact Ford finally commissioned Microsoft for a complete rewrite of its software (assuming your source is accurate) should be considered one of the biggest news stories in the automotive industry in recent memory. It's also a PR disaster for Ford which is why rather than facing it head-on (which a PR firm would want them to do), they are touting the cosmetics and not telling us about the fact the underlying platform is being trashed and rewritten.

 

I don't think anyone expects them to provide us with patch notes describing every bug fixed or that they plan on fixing. They could help restore many people's faith in the brand by GETTING IN FRONT and communicating.

 

The old days of keeping things on the "down low" and providing as little information about bad news as possible simply doesn't work in today's 24/7/365 information driven society.

 

Who is the "we" you referred to in the quote above? Is the "we" Ford or the forum moderators or someone else?

Edited November 28, 2011 by SonomaDriver

[dr.edge]

You honestly think most 2011+ Edge owners are computer geeks who care about Flash code or processor levels?

Let me see - No., but some certainly do.

 

 

All most care about is does it work and if not when will it be fixed.

Absolutely agree, myself included.

 

 

You also need to stop assuming that every MFT owner is having problems (they're not and we've proven it time and time again). That in no way is meant to minimize the problems that some people have had and continue to have - but you need to keep this in perspective.

Well, again this is still strictly speculation on your part and is only YOUR opinion, unless you can actually back it up with some data.

 

To be clear I have NEVER stated that EVERY MFT owner is having problems, those are your words, not mine. As far as proving something "time and time again", I tried that with the thread asking if anyone was satisfied with their MFT There were about 3 or 4 positive responses, which in comparison to the number of dissatisfied owners, puts them in the minority. Totally unscientific, but that's all we have so far that I'm aware of. I certainly wouldn't classify that as "time and time again" but if you have some other information you'd like to share, I'd be glad to see it.

 

I'd suggest that you follow your own advice and stop throwing unsubstantiated claims out there ("we've proven it time and time again." - Really? When was that?) to keep the discussion focused on the facts as much as possible.

 

You're more than entitled to your opinion, just as much as anyone is on this forum, but if you state something as though it's fact when there's nothing to support it, don't be surprised if someone takes issue with what you've posted.

[wilsons66604]

You honestly think most 2011+ Edge owners are computer geeks who care about Flash code or processor levels? All most care about is does it work and if not when will it be fixed.

Those who don't care about the Flash code are probably not reading this thread. Those who are interested, are reading this thread.

You also need to stop assuming that every MFT owner is having problems (they're not and we've proven it time and time again). That in no way is meant to minimize the problems that some people have had and continue to have - but you need to keep this in perspective.

Not all owners are having problems but I would venture to estimate that MOST are. Give some respect to the owners who are having problems and let them use the forum without abuse.

[Dingo]

I had zero problems with 2.8. 2.11 is a dirty whore.

[akirby]

I'm not rehashing this again - we've been through it several times. If you don't want to believe it then don't believe it - I really don't care.

[wlepse]

I had zero problems with 2.8. 2.11 is a dirty whore.

I really don't understand what the difference is an why some people seem to have better luck. But we had limited issues with 2.8 and when I heard 2.1 got released I was excited so I did it and now we have nearly daily issues. I can understand a new revision possibly having new unexpected bugs but what I don't get is how some people like us have more issues than ever before yet others have relatively few problems. I wish I understood more of what was happening, whether it is a hardware issue, a corupted file during install...just baffles me. But more importantly I hope Ford/Microsoft/bSquare etc knows what the issue is so that when we install the new rewrite it will perform as expected.

[wilsons66604]

I'm not rehashing this again - we've been through it several times. If you don't want to believe it then don't believe it - I really don't care.

.....breath.....

 

It's only a forum.

[dr.edge]

I'm not rehashing this again - we've been through it several times. If you don't want to believe it then don't believe it - I really don't care.

 

Great. I look forward to your non-participation in the discussion going forward.

[wilsons66604]

I had zero problems with 2.8. 2.11 is a dirty whore.

2.11 is just more lipstick on this pig.

The past year of "fixes" have been developed by the same team that created the original pig.

[wilsons66604]

Ok - you want a sandbox where you can bitch and gripe with each other? Do it here and I'll stay out of it.

 

I'll start another thread for the people who just want reliable information without having to listen to all of the crap.

The new thread ought to be exciting.

Where are you planning on getting "reliable information"? Ford sure as hell ain't providing it.

[akirby]

Keep venting if it makes you feel better.

[wilsons66604]

Ok - you want a sandbox where you can bitch and gripe with each other? Do it here and I'll stay out of it.

[akirby]

Leave me out of it and I will.

[dr.edge]

Keep venting if it makes you feel better.

If you were an owner of a vehicle with MFT then perhaps you'd be venting as well but since you're not, your opinion on the matter carries very little weight.

 

 

So with all due respect, your opinion on this thread isn't needed anymore or appreciated.

[akirby]

Discuss MFT, not me. Or I'll close the thread. Last warning.

[Dingo]

I kind of agree with akirby. Discussing new symptoms, new information, or new solutions is productive. Dropping by for the daily complaint is pretty tiring.

Edited November 29, 2011 by Dingo

[SonomaDriver]

I don't get the sense there is daily complaining. If you don't like what you see, you can start a thread or try to find the information you need elsewhere.

 

Back on topic: For those of you with 2.8 - if you aren't having major issues than keep 2.8 until this big update/rewrite is issued in the next couple of months.

[JeffIsHereToo]

You also need to stop assuming that every MFT owner is having problems (they're not and we've proven it time and time again). That in no way is meant to minimize the problems that some people have had and continue to have - but you need to keep this in perspective.

 

I just wanted to respectfully disagree with this statement.

 

As I've said, this is what I do for a living and software IS software. It doesn't have bugs on some installations (forgetting actual install issues) and not others. Code is not different on one car versus another. It's the same code.

 

Given that you can't say some are having issues and not others. That's just not how it works. What is different is user behavior and features or functions used. If I am a casual user, don't use the Nav very often, don't own or use the bluetooth connection, I may not see the issues others do simply because I'm not using that feature.

 

Let's make up a scenario, if I go to weather, and I am on a trip using the Nav, when I return to the map the system will, within a few minutes freeze up. Now a user who does this as well, WILL have the same issue, however someone that does not will travel error free. This doesn't meant the system is working for some and not others, it means two users are not using the system in the same way and therefore not reproducing the problem. But make no mistake the issue IS present in BOTH cars. In a real example, if I use my Nav for short trips, of 20-30 min, it's typically fine. However I make quite a few "road trips" and during these trips the system becomes unstable. It freezes, reboots, etc., multiple times during an extended journey. Now the same fault exists in ALL units but if most owners use the nav around town they may not see the issue as often if at all. That said the bugs are present in BOTH vehicles.

 

The perspective to keep in mind then is not that this is some hardware intermittent issue that effects x% of the units sold. This is a software defect that is present in ALL units sold and a persons degree of frustration then is directly proportional to the way the use and the level of use of a particular system function.

 

So while I agree there are some users who are not having issues, it's for no other reason than they are not using the system in the same way or to the extent other users are.

 

BTW: Did you know that if you boot your computer, and don't touch it, chances are it won't crash and will give you 100% uptime for months on end? Get the idea?

[dr.edge]

I just wanted to respectfully disagree with this statement.

 

As I've said, this is what I do for a living and software IS software. It doesn't have bugs on some installations (forgetting actual install issues) and not others. Code is not different on one car versus another. It's the same code.

 

Given that you can't say some are having issues and not others. That's just not how it works. What is different is user behavior and features or functions used. If I am a casual user, don't use the Nav very often, don't own or use the bluetooth connection, I may not see the issues others do simply because I'm not using that feature.

 

Let's make up a scenario, if I go to weather, and I am on a trip using the Nav, when I return to the map the system will, within a few minutes freeze up. Now a user who does this as well, WILL have the same issue, however someone that does not will travel error free. This doesn't meant the system is working for some and not others, it means two users are not using the system in the same way and therefore not reproducing the problem. But make no mistake the issue IS present in BOTH cars. In a real example, if I use my Nav for short trips, of 20-30 min, it's typically fine. However I make quite a few "road trips" and during these trips the system becomes unstable. It freezes, reboots, etc., multiple times during an extended journey. Now the same fault exists in ALL units but if most owners use the nav around town they may not see the issue as often if at all. That said the bugs are present in BOTH vehicles.

 

The perspective to keep in mind then is not that this is some hardware intermittent issue that effects x% of the units sold. This is a software defect that is present in ALL units sold and a persons degree of frustration then is directly proportional to the way the use and the level of use of a particular system function.

 

So while I agree there are some users who are not having issues, it's for no other reason than they are not using the system in the same way or to the extent other users are.

 

BTW: Did you know that if you boot your computer, and don't touch it, chances are it won't crash and will give you 100% uptime for months on end? Get the idea?

 

Thanks, a well written and thought out comment on the current situation.

Edited November 29, 2011 by dr.edge

[akirby]

I just wanted to respectfully disagree with this statement.

 

As I've said, this is what I do for a living and software IS software. It doesn't have bugs on some installations (forgetting actual install issues) and not others. Code is not different on one car versus another. It's the same code.

 

Given that you can't say some are having issues and not others. That's just not how it works. What is different is user behavior and features or functions used. If I am a casual user, don't use the Nav very often, don't own or use the bluetooth connection, I may not see the issues others do simply because I'm not using that feature.

 

Let's make up a scenario, if I go to weather, and I am on a trip using the Nav, when I return to the map the system will, within a few minutes freeze up. Now a user who does this as well, WILL have the same issue, however someone that does not will travel error free. This doesn't meant the system is working for some and not others, it means two users are not using the system in the same way and therefore not reproducing the problem. But make no mistake the issue IS present in BOTH cars. In a real example, if I use my Nav for short trips, of 20-30 min, it's typically fine. However I make quite a few "road trips" and during these trips the system becomes unstable. It freezes, reboots, etc., multiple times during an extended journey. Now the same fault exists in ALL units but if most owners use the nav around town they may not see the issue as often if at all. That said the bugs are present in BOTH vehicles.

 

The perspective to keep in mind then is not that this is some hardware intermittent issue that effects x% of the units sold. This is a software defect that is present in ALL units sold and a persons degree of frustration then is directly proportional to the way the use and the level of use of a particular system function.

 

So while I agree there are some users who are not having issues, it's for no other reason than they are not using the system in the same way or to the extent other users are.

 

BTW: Did you know that if you boot your computer, and don't touch it, chances are it won't crash and will give you 100% uptime for months on end? Get the idea?

 

I've also been in IT including software development for 25 years. I understand and totally agree that the software is crappy and the cause for most of the problems along with a few hardware failures. I think there may be some flaky hardware still out there also causing problems in addition to the software.

 

These aren't bugs as in "this feature doesn't work" - this is a stability and performance issue caused by poor coding. And I totally agree that folks who use more features or use them more frequently will have a bigger chance to see more failures. There is no question the system as currently written is terribly flawed. That's why Ford rewrote it.

 

When I point out that there are some users who have very few or no problems - it in NO WAY is an attempt to minimize the problems that people ARE having or deflect any blame whatsoever from Ford for this fiasco.

 

I take things VERY literally, so if someone posts something that I think is patently false then I will correct it. Saying that everyone is having problems is false. Saying that Ford is not making any effort to fix the problem is false. All I'm trying to do is keep the facts in perspective. I'm not out to defend Ford as I have repeatedly said that they totally screwed the pooch on this one.

 

Now let's get back to discussing the MFT rewrite.

[spongers]

I've also been in IT including software development for 25 years. I understand and totally agree that the software is crappy and the cause for most of the problems along with a few hardware failures. I think there may be some flaky hardware still out there also causing problems in addition to the software.

 

These aren't bugs as in "this feature doesn't work" - this is a stability and performance issue caused by poor coding. And I totally agree that folks who use more features or use them more frequently will have a bigger chance to see more failures. There is no question the system as currently written is terribly flawed. That's why Ford rewrote it.

 

When I point out that there are some users who have very few or no problems - it in NO WAY is an attempt to minimize the problems that people ARE having or deflect any blame whatsoever from Ford for this fiasco.

 

I take things VERY literally, so if someone posts something that I think is patently false then I will correct it. Saying that everyone is having problems is false. Saying that Ford is not making any effort to fix the problem is false. All I'm trying to do is keep the facts in perspective. I'm not out to defend Ford as I have repeatedly said that they totally screwed the pooch on this one.

 

Now let's get back to discussing the MFT rewrite.

 

Well said akirby. I agree with you 100%. As a user who experiences massive problems on a daily basis with MFT (it froze on my way in to work this morning) I can empathize with those that say there are issues, and see, as a fellow IT professional, that it should just work. The state of affairs is that it does not, and people need to get over that and move on. Accept that Ford is trying (and trying in a major way just as those who are complaining have asked them to do) to right the ship and fix the problems. Complaining about it is not going to help any longer. Wait until the update comes out and accept that MFT is semi-broken for SOME users, and move on. If it is still broken for you after that, then don't complain about it then either. Hire a lawyer and file a class-action lawsuit against Ford if that is how far you want to take it.

 

I for one am really excited to see Ford, a multi-billion dollar company, actually trying to improve something, and on top of that are rolling it out to existing customers. That is almost unheard of, especially in the auto world.

 

Ford FTW. (And I am defending Ford, because while they did screw the pooch on this one, they realize that in a big way, and doing everything they can or know how to fix the problem)

[dr.edge]

 

I for one am really excited to see Ford, a multi-billion dollar company, actually trying to improve something, and on top of that are rolling it out to existing customers. That is almost unheard of, especially in the auto world.

 

Ford FTW. (And I am defending Ford, because while they did screw the pooch on this one, they realize that in a big way, and doing everything they can or know how to fix the problem)

 

No need to defend them, they just made a business decision. It's going to cost them less to fix the problem than it would to deal with it on an ongoing basis.

 

They're in business to make money for their shareholders and that's what they're doing with the re-write. Nothing more and nothing less.

[MrHappy]

I don't think that was a defense but rather an observation and opinion. (One which I share) I am not a Ford fanboy, never have been. My wife's family is and thus she drives Fords. I have been pretty pleased with their products over the last decade or so and am further pleased to see them back their mistakes. Contrary to your statement, "business decisions" which benefit the consumer tend not to be norm for large companies these days so when Ford appears to be stepping up it should be noted. For people such as myself and spongers that IS something more than what others have done or are doing. Clearly for you it is not. Time will tell if the issues get properly resolved but at least there is an effort underway to do so as well as an admission by Ford there is a problem, both of which are appreciated by at least this owner.