I'manedgeowner

I see this is an older topic but you might want to jiggle the sensor wires with someone watching the dash to see if the light comes on. In one of my manuals there's something about a short initiating some sensor warnings. I don't remember if it was a short to power or ground?

WWWPerfA_ZN0W, Are you a mechanic? Wondering if you have an opinion about the efficacy of those claiming to keep the maintenance up and experiencing pump failures? Just my nature but I take most claims with a grain of salt.

IWRRB, That's harsh. You also seem to disregard what is suppose to be the function of the planning board. Allowing one area of development to overwhelm the remaining resources of some geopolitical area is poor planning and disregards one group(s) over another. I don't read what was written as a complaint about development. It's a complaint about how it's managed. Furthermore, overwhelming an areas resources turns what's attractive about an area, unattractive and that suppresses the value of the development you are in favor of. There has to be a balance that is too often disregarded for personal gain instead of a planned greater good. I could be wrong but I get the impression akirby's concerns for you involves your financial gain or loss? I also doubt akirby's concern's exist in a vacuum meaning he's not alone with what he thinks. There are many examples of where over aggressive development has backfired on what were good intentions. When local decisions don't serve everyone, they don't serve anyone. EDIT: akirby, your last wasn't up when I started this but well put. Last year here we dealt with a proposed zoning ordinance that would have mandated everyone in residential areas to plant flowers. Unreal but it was tried and fortunately defeated. Anymore you can't keep your campers or car haulers in your driveway. A neighbor owns an excavating company an he can no longer come home in a dump truck. It's not allowed because some see it as an eyesore. Same for the equipment loaded pickup. They all have to be stored in an approved zoned area. How well would that go over with some others?

Just my 2 cents and most of this I've learned by just being around but you're spinning your wheels for so many reasons on this. To begin with Ford uses MAF senor when a MAP sensor system is better suited to a turbo'd engine. I know for a fact that engineers at Ford have tried to impress their opinion on using MAP over MAF on Eco Boost engines and gotten no where. As someone mentioned MAF also promotes fuel biasing to various cylinders. Another problem is with the various fuel mixtures available and the percentage of ethanol used. It's wise to get your fuel from the same retailer and one that doesn't shop the wholesale prices so what you're buying is constantly changing. There are limits to the ability of a PCM to "learn." Your best bet to deal with carbon build up is to switch to a Lucas or Bosch disk type injector and use a consistent fuel along with maintenance. A reality of turbos is they have a narrow VE sweet spot that occurs at a high RPM. That sweet spot isn't in an area most drivers are comfortable operating their daily driver family car at. Overcoming this reality, when possible, involves operating the engine outside of mandated emission standards. There is a lot of information about what is going on with direct injection engines but not so much about the root cause of why. There's more available from text's on tuning about this than text's on engines.

Have to agree with TheWizard on this. I looked up the price of a discounted Ford OEM bumper proximity sensor and found one for $55. That's just the sensor without even wiring. Start adding up what you're looking for including activating the system, if even available, in your modules and an aftermarket kit looks a lot more attractive.

I was wondering if anyone has added one to a 3.5 non-Eco Boost? If so, what's your impression of the clean out? In your opinion was it needed, necessary or worthwhile? Just my opinion but with a turbo why would anyone not have one installed? I did a separator search and saw the topic was only mentioned once but no follow up.

Have we stumbled in to another Lounge topic?

I can understand every reason you listed. Been going through an ordinance passing rage for about 10 years here now. I think of moving often and if it wasn't for the actual "moving" part I'd be gone.

tk2fast, I have a feeling you are reading too much in to this. It's your car, your PCM and your rights. This doesn't mean you have the right for some third party to market a device for you to realize your rights. As I said earlier, if you want to peruse a couple of million lines of code, have at it. Also, a lot of this is going to change soon because of autonomous driving and security. Another thing and if I understand it right, when Ford took Autel to court they lost but they lost because of the legal argument used. Ford lawyers challenged Autel on the information they were using rather than challenging the right of Autel to access the information and incorporate Ford's system in to theirs and distribute the information as their own without a proper licensing agreement. There's also the issue of manufacturers that license third party systems and someone piggy backing on the manufacturers license. As I said earlier, Ford Performance licenses their electric steering from AiM so should Autel have the right to access AiM intellectual property by default? An analogy as I see it. Your neighbor wants a wider driveway and uses 3 feet of your yard to widen it. You take the neighbor to court challenging the neighbors right to widen the driveway. You lose and the court tells you, you don't have the authority to dictate to your neighbor how wide the driveway can be. So the court tells you, you need to challenge your neighbor on using your yard to widen the driveway and not the right to widen it. Maybe this is an over simplification but it makes sense to me. A lot of all this seems nuanced and unfortunately the law doesn't work on the concept of, "but you know what I meant," and requires the right argument to fit the situation. Conversely a manufacturer can't put mandated systems in to programming that is impossible to access. Impossible and hard aren't the same. Also, manufacturers do have proprietary protocols which they do have the right to restrict access to as they see fit. Two obvious protocols on the list for Ford are Sync and PATS. There's nothing in the Code of Federal Regulations, CFR, mandating how they work. I'm no lawyer but I do try to understand my rights because of the "tinkering" I do so I try to keep up on this stuff but I'm not above getting something wrong. I spent a lot of time with the CFR in graduate school and I suffered a lot extra hours of work because I made inferences and assumptions with the CFR rather than being specific without reading in to what was written. Sometimes when I read discussions like this though I get the idea that people are in agreement as they debate some point as if they're not. There's a reason why more and more high end scanners are no longer generic OBD2 code readers. They are becoming more manufacturer specific with each model year because all of this is getting more and more complicated. EDIT: Last I saw there were only 19 states that said you have the right to reverse engineer.

Kitulu, A rubber plug for access is convenient. Best of luck.

For anyone interested, it was the EU's "Block Exemption Regulation" that really started to change our rights to our vehicle electronics. Something called "Vertical Agreements" superseded many of the rules we were accustom to about our rights to access, repair or tinker. Tinker is actually the legal term used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_Exemption_Regulation Edit: I have no idea why this link doesn't work. I can't copy and paste but it's copied character by character. Furthermore there is a lot of misinformation about reverse engineering and this is from the Supreme Court. The Court determined that End User License Agreements, EULA, supersedes copyright law. EULA falls under contract law which is a state's right to manage. If you can legally reverse engineer your car's electronics depends on the laws in the state you live in. The Supreme Court ruled that auto manufacturers "Exhausted their control with the initial sale. Once sold, they cannot tell the new owner what to do," but the state can. The Repair Association took the manufacturers to court and won. https://repair.org/legislation/ I should add doing something for yourself, for others and for profit all have different meanings with this.

Nice work and a good looking yard. Why did you leave it?

I don't think Ford Performance specifically supported anything on the Edge. They closed out and quit supporting the 3.5 Eco Boost last summer. They were selling them off at the best deal I'd ever seen from Ford Performance. It was like 30% off and they threw in the control pack for nothing. I've asked and gotten no answer to future plans. Just my opinion but I'm not a big fan of Bilstein but it shouldn't be too difficult to find performance shocks for your car.

tk2fast, Actually I'm real happy to read this price list. My IDS expired at the end of June and I need to renew. Last year I found a place to buy a discounted subscription at $1,200. Normal price through Rotunda was $1,400 or $1,500. FDRS is also suppose to be more powerful than IDS. I hope FDRS supports the PCM's from Ford Performance which IDS didn't. What anyone could do with systems like the AiM electronic steering was very limited.

I have a feeling some apples and oranges are getting mixed up here but first, When J2534 is mentioned as not compatible that shouldn't be surprising. It's too old and I imagine where today's protocols might support it, it's an anomaly. Did Ford even install the port on any OBD2 PCM's? It's like some old MS Office Suites I have that don't work on today's computers. I can still use basic functions but the higher functions like embedding Excel or Access files in to a word document the computer locks up. A PCM is nothing but higher functions. PCM's or EEC's\ECU's have a number of different protocols. Some belong to the manufacturer and some are mandated by law and from what I've read, come from a collaboration between SAE and the likes of NTSB, Dept. of Transportation, FBI and Homeland Security. OBD2 is not proprietary though. This is true regardless of the protocol used. Look this up if you like but we can thank the EU for this. They mandated OBD2 to be open source so US manufacturers had to comply or quit selling in the EU. The other option was a completely different system for EU sales which wasn't feasible. Also anyone that is familiar with Europe you're aware of how car tuning their is a cottage industry unlike here in the US. They've been at it much longer and it's not unusual to see a Frankenstein car there like a Ford Escort with an Audi Quatro suspension and a Porsche 911 engine powering it. Trying to do this in the US would be a nightmare and good luck trying to find someone to do this for you. If you did find someone like Haltech to do this for you it would probably cost you half the price of a new 911. As somebody also said, just because you can make changes to OBD2 doesn't necessarily make what you do legal. CFR emission regulations are a minimum that must be met for any street legal vehicle but that doesn't prevent the states from mandating stricter standards. New York and California come to mind. Some states like Ohio have different standards by region within the state. That must drive some dealers to pulling their hair out with what I understand can happen with cars that are sold across regions or if a customer moves between regions. Also from what I've read there are some extensive changes coming to vehicle electronics because of autonomous driving plans. The FBI, NTSB and Homeland Security has been given demonstrations of how the current system can be hacked and vehicles can be remotely controlled. Their concern with this is terrorism. I also read where one of the demonstrations came from a group of high school kids. We have kids taking guns to schools now so what would they do with this ability? What's the angry kid that's been dumped by his girl going to do? From experience I can verify that teenagers don't always think things through. Bottom line, if it isn't OBD2 related you don't have inherent rights to any access and you sign off to that when you sign for the car and if you buy a used car you buy that signature with it.

Ah, sorry.

I think you misunderstand what you read about FDRS. The new system is cloud based and some companies like Autel, which Ford took to court, were accessing Ford data in the cloud and incorporating in to their products without paying the necessary license fees. If you have FDRS or an authorized system you can still make any changes you could before. If you're willing to explore a couple of million lines of code on your own, you can still get in to the system, track down what you want to change and write your own code. Also, I haven't seen or heard of anything where Ford is changing its Open Source Initiative program.

akirby, it hurt just reading "3,000 pavers." I hope I don't seem to be questioning your decisions. It's not what I was trying to say at all. I was suggesting an alternative to the OP about buying a new rider. He was asking for opinions.

akirby, I'm using Internet Explorer. About 2 weeks ago now MS did a good hour + udate that may be the issue. It undid all my settings for their preferences. omar302, I'm not sure what a premium theme is? I thought it was a way to support the forum and that was my only goal.

I don't know if the problems I'm having are with my computer settings or my settings with the forum. Here's what I'm experiencing: 1. Copy and paste doesn't work. 2. Quoting doesn't work. 3. Supporting the site with platinum membership can't be found when joining is selected. 4. Friend requests might be working as of today. This all pre-dates the recent update. Any suggestions?

The new MAF has been in awhile now and has some mileage on it and the car has been working as it should. Unfortunately there isn't any way to pinpoint the MAF as the problem under the conditions I had with the codes having been wiped. Right now I'll take being lucky.

macbwt, I can't disagree with what you say. As I said, I enjoy doing projects like this and I wouldn't be making any permanent changes. Everything I suggested can be undone and 95% of the work involved has to be done anyway to swap a pump out. If need be, electric pumps are common enough now that they can be gotten from a salvage yard so costs can be kept to a minimum. I understand it's a project that isn't for everyone but I still see it as an option to swapping motors at much less cost and involves the necessary tear down of the front of the engine only once. If I didn't see this as a fun project to do I wouldn't consider it. I know most people wouldn't look at any of this, regardless of the reason, as fun.

akirby, Zero turn mowers are a completely different animal IMO. They are nice mowers but they are strictly mowers. I admit it's a bias on my part but when I think of a home riding mower I think of a lawn tractor mostly because of their versatility. I didn't need a separate snow blower when I had the AC. The PTO blower wasn't phased by the depth of the snow and could blow the heaviest stuff across the yard and never clogged. I had a 8" post hole digger, rototill, plow, scraper like your father in law and it could cut the grass. Our home was also on a river and about this time every year as the level of the river went down my mower could get in to the shore brush and cut the cattails and other heavy growth that newer tractors couldn't touch. This is actually what led me to looking in to rebuilding an older mower after reading a magazine article. Getting the stuff cut at the river was necessary to keep the mosquitos down. Something that we never considered when buying the home. That was a mistake. enigma-2, I have to give you these features. Forward and reverse direction changing on the AC did require stopping and changing of gears. The throttle though was similar although it was a hand lever instead of a pedal. What I got instead was a hi and low 6 speed transmission with 4 forward and 2 reverse gears. This was for the PTO which I never took full advantage of, but I could see how a lot of people did. For about $1,000 in the early 80's for the machine, attachments and the rebuild of the engine and tractor I had what at the time would have been well north of $3,000. I can only guess at what that would translate to in todays dollars? The security in buying new is a more than reasonable consideration when buying what to most is a big ticket item. I've made my share of bad decisions and doing the work myself is the only reason things like the tractor were economical.

The AC did have a geared transmission and a differential but the drive between them was a belt. Geared shaft drive was available though. Just FYI, in lawn tractor pulling geared shafts aren't allowed. Just my opinion but the only benefit of a hydro trans is they're inexpensive.

What about the GT's and Utes? Bring back the 2 door.