PTU drain plug drill and tap

[jlkansascity]

275 posts on this topic, so seemed like it was only a matter of time before it was my turn. Starting seeing the dreaded black goo on my garage floor last week. My 2011 Edge is a CPO with 47K miles. Took it in to the dealer yesterday and they kept it, said yes, it's the PTU, and gave me a loaner. Pick it up Friday......... Also found a hydraulic leak (transmission filter?)

 

Update Friday

pedro2u; what did that cost? I would be curious. That is essentially what they told me; it's the PTU, now give us $1,600.00. I said "no thanks" and started changing the fluid with synthetic ever week for 4x, every month for 4x now change it every 6 months. The grease dribbling from the vent has cleared up and it no longer drips. I've put 20,000 miles on it since they wanted to replace it for $1,600.00.

 

One thing that bothers me, is that every time I change it, the fluid level seems to be low, but it's not leaking and I don't understand where the fluid goes. But at any rate, I now have over 160,000 miles on it and it's still running. Probably going to trade it off in the next 6 months.

[pedro2u]

My CPO warranty is supposed to cover it, and they never mentioned cost. Just gave me a loaner.

 

I'll let you know Friday when I pick it up

[Brian K]

My 08 Ford Service manual says to fill the PTU to the bottom of the fill hole. Every time I see an Edge or MKX on the road, I feel like stopping them to tell them about changing the oil in their PTU.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

BTW, Brian, this post answers what to do with that pesky vent on our PTUs:

http://www.fordedgeforum.com/topic/10914-ptu-leak-failures/page-12?do=findComment&comment=148260

[pedro2u]

Picked up my CPO 2011 Edge Limited today after asking the dealer to check for the PTU leak. Service slip says "excessive resistance found inside front PTU, almost unable to spin. Front PTU replaced." Cost was covered under the CPO warranty. I looked up the PTU part number on the invoice (AT4Z 7251 G) and see the part alone is $905..............

 

I think I got lucky taking it in as soon as I spotted the leak since it looks like it's days were numbered.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

A love affair begun anew Good luck, enjoy!

[Brian K]

I had a look at threeputtpar's procedure on removing the vent - well done. I also tried to pry mine out but it wouldn't loosen and I was worried about breaking the jiggler off then I'd really be up the creek. I would still like to remove and clean the vent and perhaps do the same thing that 3puttpar did with a vent tube too. I had a look at an axle vent I took off my Mustang and it only vented out (it was threaded) - and it acted like a check valve so wouldn't allow air back in. Is this a correct? My vent is still dry after about 8 drain and fill's of the PTU. I also tried blowing air into the PTU and it is venting somewhere that I could hear but it doesn't seem to be venting out the vent - no jiggling of the jiggler top.

 

Threeputtpar - any comments on the vent:

1) does it look like a one way device?

2) Is the jiggler on there quite well and can it take some prying to remove the whole vent assemble?

3) Did you rock it back and forth to get it out - brute force with the slip pliers?

4) your picture showed what looks like a rubber o-ring holding it in - it that correct?

Thanks for the comments.

[OneAn9ryN00b]

So I have tried to read up on numerous threads on installing a PTU drain plug....I think I have most of it down pact. But one question, I see some people using hex head (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003TWP2SQ)and others using the bolt style (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0045LRZP8)

 

What is the difference? I personally would think the bolt style would be better, because it wouldn't get stuck inside the PTU. Just was wondering why people prefer the hex style.

Edited June 20, 2016 by OneAn9ryN00b

[Brian K]

I bought a brass bolt style plug and used it first. Then I bought an aluminum Allen key Hex style plug because it was alumimum and I was somewhat concerned about the dissimilar metals (brass and aluminum) causing galvanic corrosion. Once I received the Allen key style plug I realized that I like the bolt style because IMO it's easier to get a socket with an extension to take the plug out and put it in rather than using an Allen key. You might have a 3/8" drive hex 'socket' to fit your plug but I didn't. You do have to reach up past the exhaust (about 6") to get to the plug and a 6" or 9" extension works well with a regular socket on it. No worries about it hitting anything. My 2 cents on preference - hopefully I explained it right.

 

Also - you might want to consider using a 1/4" plug instead of the 3/8" (as I did). The 1/4" Tap (18 Threads per Inch) uses a 7/16" drill bit as the proper sized hole for the tap. So the hole is actually almost 1/2" in diameter. The reason I suggest this is because if you screw up the threading on the 1/4" hole you do get another chance to go to 3/8" and try it again. But screw up the 3/8" hole and you could be sweating bullets. I'm happy with the size of the 1/4" hole and it drains just fine. Good luck getting the hole drilled and tapped.

[Brian K]

The tap you use should be 'NPT', (National Pipe Thread) which means it will make a tapered thread so as you install the plug, it tightens up as it goes into the threaded hole so really not much chance that the plug will go right up inside the PTU. When you run the tap in the hole and make the threads, go in and out and clean out the cuttings numerous times until the tap is about 1/2 way up the tap - and you should be fine. The thread this type of tap makes it not like a traditional nut (from a nut & bolt) which would allow the threaded plug to go right through. This won't end up like an engine oil bolt - it is 'pipe' thread so will tighten up before it goes all the way through. When you get the tap, you will see it is tapered.

[OneAn9ryN00b]

Thanks on the 1/4 thread suggestion. I think i will use that instead. I checked home depot earlier for the plug, and could only find the copper, and it was MIP, not NTP. Would the aluminum one typically be carried at a plumbing store....or is it going to be online only?

So i was hoping to get a magnetic one....do they make aluminum magnetic ones...or is that a non-existent part.

[Brian K]

I got the tap and plug at an auto parts store - NAPA I believe. I described what I wanted to the guy at the shop and got the right parts so I was more confident that the plug would work in the tapped hole. I don't know where to find a magnetic plug but keep in mind the fill plug is does have a magnetic insert in it - so perhaps a dealership. You can also ask at the autoparts place if they have one - mine didn't. I really didn't understand the difference between the tapered NPT threading until I saw the tap and could see the taper on it. While a magnetic plug for the drain would be nice, if you're like me, you'll change the PTU oil a whole lot once you have a drain and I'm happy enough with the magnetic fill plug now that I know the PTU is full of oil. It doesn't catch much now.

 

MIP stands for Male Iron Pipe or Male International Pipe and should work in NPT threads. Most plugs I've seen were brass - not copper. FIP means Female. You need a male plug as you have found and while I think the MIP plug should work in a NPT tapped hole, I'm not 100% certain.

[Brian K]

I'm trying to post a link but can't for some reason. Try googling Pure water gazette.net and look for "the mysteries of MIP and FIP. There is some good info there on threads.

[OneAn9ryN00b]

Yah I ment brass..from what I read online MIP will work in NPT holes....I'll try Napa in the morning, and see if they have the aluminum ones...then gatta hit up harbor freight for the tap set. Then once everything is done up right il try searching for magnetic ones.

 

Also another question....is tafflon tape good to use on this...I have seen a couple of posts where some people have used tafflon, but I'd be worried the it would melt and the inside portion get mixed in with the oil.

[Brian K]

I used Teflon tape the first few times I put the plug in and then tried it without tape and no leaks. I also had a few concerns about the tape getting into the PTU. When I removed the plug (after I put tape on it previously) there didn't seem to be much tape left on it - so the concern about 'where did it go?'. My plug works fine without tape so I won't use it anymore. I don't over tighten the plug but it is snugged up pretty tight. Please let me know if you find a 1/4" plug with a magnet in it. I'm still using the brass bolt head plug just because it is way easier to get out than the female type hex head that my aluminum plug is as I described above. When I think about it, my plug is hollowed out on the inside - so I just might find a magnet to epoxy inside it and have it extend up into the PTU a bit.

[DRbillZ]

Oil seems to 'eat up' Teflon tape. Won't be much left of it at oil change time if the threads are getting oil on them.

[Brian K]

That's interesting. I didn't know that but explains where the Teflon tape went.

The fill plug seems to have some red/orange thread locker on it - but I've taken my fill plug out lots now and no leaks and I don't reapply any thread sealant on it. Also interesting that the service manual says to replace the fill plug when it is taken out. I don't know why that would be and mine isn't leaking.

[jlkansascity]

That's interesting. I didn't know that but explains where the Teflon tape went.

The fill plug seems to have some red/orange thread locker on it - but I've taken my fill plug out lots now and no leaks and I don't reapply any thread sealant on it. Also interesting that the service manual says to replace the fill plug when it is taken out. I don't know why that would be and mine isn't leaking.

 

They tell you to replace the plug because it's a part where they have 200% markup and they can sell a lot more of them... I've never understood that either. I can see replacing every 10 times, or something like that, just to make sure it's not leaking, but every time seems crazy.

[Brian K]

I agree Jkansascity - unless mine starts to leak, and I'm sure it will be fine, there is absolutely no point in subsidizing them looking with my $$. My PTU is fine - no drips from either the fill or drain plug - or seals. It is comforting having changed the oil numerous times since I put the drain in.

[pedro2u]

I have a question for the PTU crowd. I posted a week ago that the dealer service slip says they changed my "front PTU" on my 2011 CPO Limited. But I'm curious about the word "Front"

 

Is there a rear PTU?

[jlkansascity]

I have a question for the PTU crowd. I posted a week ago that the dealer service slip says they changed my "front PTU" on my 2011 CPO Limited. But I'm curious about the word "Front"

 

Is there a rear PTU

 

No, there is only one. But it is kind of in the front of the vehicle so who knows what they were thinking. There is a rear differential but that's different...

[pedro2u]

Thanks. I'd done all the research in advance and was thrown off by their use of the word "front"

And based on all these posts about adding the drain so we can service these and extend their lives, I'm wishing they would have installed the Middle Eastern PTU that apparently has the drain as I understand it

 

Great board, lots to learn here for the DIYer's

[jlkansascity]

My latest debacle dealing with Ford on this issue. I moved, so I got rid of a lot of my garage stuff. I'm in a new city and new state. I have the Edge at the local Ford dealer to have the break booster replaced ($658.00) and asked to have the PTU fluid replaced. Many users on this forum have had Ford Dealers replace the PTO fluid. Well, this dealer says it's impossible, and that the Ford authorized process for replacing the fluid is to PULL the PTO and replace the fluid, which costs $440.00. I told him I know it's possible since I've done it about a dozen times. I also have a guy on my blog that says per the FSM it says "According to the FSM, the factory recommends pumping out the transfer unit, refilling to the bottom of the fill plug, not lower, then manually turning the front wheels a minimum of 3 rotations. Once that’s done, drain, fill, and turn the wheels again. Repeat this process 3 times, then fill again to the bottom of the fill plug."

 

It's amazing and frustrating that every Ford Dealer seems to have their own story and there isn't any consistent posture from Ford on this issue. This local dealer says their shop foreman is a Ford certified master mechanic and what he says is set in stone.

 

All I know, is I have a contract on my house at my old place and when it sells I'm getting a new vehicle or maybe two. I need to get rid of this Edge and the frustrations it brings me. I doubt my new vehicles will be Ford after this never-ending headache.

 

@fordservice

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

I thought you already had the PTU situation in-hand? What other issues beside the BB are you having?

[jlkansascity]

I thought you already had the PTU situation in-hand? What other issues beside the BB are you having?

 

 

In my opinion, I do have the situation in hand. But when I moved, I got rid of all of my suction tools, oil drain tools, gear old pump, etc. In the house I'm renting I have no garage space, etc. So I thought "while it's at the dealer, I'll just have them change the PTO oil since it's right there". That's where it went downhill; they say it's "leaking" (yeah, it's a mess from the vent) but there is no active leak and they want $110.00 to diag it for the leak or $440.00 to change the oil.

 

It's Simi Valley Ford; http://simivalleyford.net/ @SimiFordman

Edited July 1, 2016 by jlkansascity