Rough Idle When Cold/P0301 Code - coolant intrusion

[Dulce]

48 minutes ago, akirby said:

They are taking responsibility by fixing the problem under warranty and with a new block design.  What they’re not doing is extending the warranty to cover failures that happen after the 5 yr/60K powertrain warranty.   However, you also had the option to purchase an extended warranty and chose not to.

Yup, exactly!!!  Since I was responding to the question asking “ Has anyone had assistance from Ford when this failure occurred “outside the warranty mileage and period?“ 👍🏽….. In other words since my car is out of warranty Ford is not taking responsibility for it and I wouldn’t bother asking or expect any assistance from Ford. Hope thats a little more clear on what I ment.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Dulce

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

yes, people have received such assistance from Ford.  most have been lucky to have purchased an extended warranty, but polite & persistent negotiation on a vehicle with reasonable mileage (12-15K / yr or under 100K i would say) HAS yielded results.

[akirby]

Yes, Ford does do AWAs - after warranty adjustment.  But it’s done in conjunction with the dealer.  
 

I don’t agree that it’s the mfrs responsibility to fix anything out of warranty, especially when you have the opportunity to purchase an extended warranty.  When you buy something you know exactly what the mfr covers and you choose whether to buy extra coverage.

 

I do think mfrs SHOULD extend the warranty for these types of problems as a matter of good customer service.  I just don’t think they are obligated to do so.

[CARR142]

 

[1004ron]

23 minutes ago, CARR142 said:

.......

That guy waffles - does he have a point, if so what is it?

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

4 hours ago, akirby said:

I do think mfrs SHOULD extend the warranty for these types of problems as a matter of good customer service.  I just don’t think they are obligated to do so.

and THAT is the American way lol.  If you make a blunder as big as this one, they SHOULD cover it.  bad bearing, or grinding RDU, ok i will agree it's totally up to them. but engine failure? no way it should be an option.  the manufacturer is just playing the waiting game, knowing most of the owners are too timid to pipe up and ask for a square deal.

[handfiler]

4 hours ago, 1004ron said:

That guy waffles - does he have a point, if so what is it?

 

That he's full of himself.

[Dulce]

2016 Ford edge 2.0 108k+ mileage falls under the (TSB 19-2346) and needs new engine block. 
- currently my car has shown no signs of over heating

- does have rough start 

- some coolant loss but not alot at once

- water noise 

I have decided to just keep driving it and just check coolant levels to make sure it doesn’t overheat? I will keep you guys posted see how long it last, wish me luck 🙏😁

[2015Edge2015]

Hi guys, had to sign up to report. I just got hit with the slowly missing coolant myself last week. No external leaks. Some of you have reported a steady dripping stream ffaucetsound inside the dash. I got that as well. Notice that happens after the coolant goes low a bit. Top it off and the sound is gone. But now I'm looking at a crazy high bill! What's the average cost and have any of you gotten help from Ford themselves with the cost?  I'm aware of the lawsuit since lots of owner are getting bit by this. https://www.lieffcabraser.com/defect/ford-coolant/ My main question is what I said above. How much out of pocket and has fors done anything for good of faith in helping?

[2015Edge2015]

On 10/28/2021 at 8:48 AM, Dulce said:

2016 Ford edge 2.0 108k+ mileage falls under the (TSB 19-2346) and needs new engine block. 
- currently my car has shown no signs of over heating

- does have rough start 

- some coolant loss but not alot at once

- water noise 

I have decided to just keep driving it and just check coolant levels to make sure it doesn’t overheat? I will keep you guys posted see how long it last, wish me luck 🙏😁

I'm in the same boat with you. Exact. Mines seems to eat about 1/4 a cup of coolan daily. So takes about a week to see a drop that's half a inch below the line. I'm thinking of just driving it and add water once a week. This possibly will be my last ford.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

arbitration will have more positive results than lawsuits, going by past history.  you should find a law firm that is doing arbitration with ford, if you cannot get assistance by applying to them directly.

 

[2015Edge2015]

Quick question. If rhe 2.0L get the long block replacement, what exactly gets replaced? Do you essentially get a brand new engine? Like the top end head gets replaced aswell with a new head and valves? What gets reused? Like does the turbo also get replaced with a new one or do they reinstall your old turbo? Debating if the 8k is worth dropping for it or just move one from the car.

Edited January 1 by 2015Edge2015

[Cerberus]

Generally a long block is defined as everything except intake and exhaust manifolds, brackets etc,, and sometimes does not include valvecovers and oil pans etc

 

Short block is as above minus the head and oil pan

[Dulce]

On 10/28/2021 at 8:48 AM, Dulce said:

2016 Ford edge 2.0 108k+ mileage falls under the (TSB 19-2346) and needs new engine block. 
- currently my car has shown no signs of over heating

- does have rough start 

- some coolant loss but not alot at once

- water noise 

I have decided to just keep driving it and just check coolant levels to make sure it doesn’t overheat? I will keep you guys posted see how long it last, wish me luck 🙏😁

Happy New Year Everyone 🥳,

 Mid November I added K-Seal to my coolant reservoir.

About a week after I poured the K -seal, the water noise pretty much resolved, my heater started working again and the engine light went off (disappeared/ not on anymore). 

I still have coolant loss about the same amount. I had one incident were car did not want to turn on at all.Turned ac/heater off and yup car turned on (no problem since then even with heater/ac on).
Had two incidents were thermostat suddenly jump to  overheat car alarm when off. Pulled over, turned off car no smoke or sign of it over heating coolant level was good. Turned car back on almost immediately and back to normal like nothing , drove it home 200+miles. 
Still has a slight rough start at times, still fill up coolant every so often depending how far I drive. It seems it only resolved the water noise and engine light turned off. 
Does it work 😬😁🤪…… I don’t really know lol !!

 

[2015Edge2015]

On 1/1/2022 at 10:41 AM, Dulce said:

Happy New Year Everyone 🥳,

 Mid November I added K-Seal to my coolant reservoir.

About a week after I poured the K -seal, the water noise pretty much resolved, my heater started working again and the engine light went off (disappeared/ not on anymore). 

I still have coolant loss about the same amount. I had one incident were car did not want to turn on at all.Turned ac/heater off and yup car turned on (no problem since then even with heater/ac on).
Had two incidents were thermostat suddenly jump to  overheat car alarm when off. Pulled over, turned off car no smoke or sign of it over heating coolant level was good. Turned car back on almost immediately and back to normal like nothing , drove it home 200+miles. 
Still has a slight rough start at times, still fill up coolant every so often depending how far I drive. It seems it only resolved the water noise and engine light turned off. 
Does it work 😬😁🤪…… I don’t really know lol !!

 

I hear good stuff on blue devil. Scared to try it! Business at 150k and started to show all the symptoms.  So I know I need a new engine. And doing the same... just add the water that it looses and crossing my fingers it lasts longer.

[2015Edge2015]

On 1/1/2022 at 8:52 AM, Cerberus said:

Generally a long block is defined as everything except intake and exhaust manifolds, brackets etc,, and sometimes does not include valvecovers and oil pans etc

 

Short block is as above minus the head and oil pan

Sorry.. I'm a total noob to this. When you said everything but the manifold and intake manifolds.... you mean the turbo also gets replaced? I want to be clear on the turbo since lots of people say that it goes bad and it's expensive to replace. 

[Cerberus]

17 minutes ago, 2015Edge2015 said:

Sorry.. I'm a total noob to this. When you said everything but the manifold and intake manifolds.... you mean the turbo also gets replaced? I want to be clear on the turbo since lots of people say that it goes bad and it's expensive to replace. 

When we are talking about either a long block or a short block, we are talking about the core of your engine. This includes the engine block and what is inside in (crank, rods, pistons, camshaft if applicable)

Short block does not include the head, long block does.

So we are talking about the engine from the heart out.

Turbos would have been covered by the etc category of my previous reply.

Turbos are definitely not part of either the long block or obviously short block normal definitions. 

That doesn't necessarily mean that they would not be covered by warranty, and depending on mileage and accessibility, if an engine is being replaced, that might be a good time to do the turbo(s) as well

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

using coolant sealer products will not work in the long run, nor if you step to anything above low throttle.  ChrisFix has a video where he has tested such a product.

 

best deal is to either trade your vehicle in, or put in a nonCleveland block, OR go for a full Sport conversion 😄

[edkene]

Hello All,

 

First off, I have a 2016 Ford Edge 2.0L Ecoboost SE with 63,XXX miles on it. I am the original owner. 

 

Looking for a bit of help. A while back I started experiencing a rough idle immediately after filling up my fuel tank (allowed the handle to pop; never topped it off). Shortly afterward I started having rough starts in the morning when it got cold and then it popped a CEL. I pulled the code and it was a P0301, Cylinder 1 Misfire.

 

I did some research and came across people who were reporting that the issues with rough idle immediately after a filling up a tank were typically caused by a bad Fuel Vapor Separator/Valve (part number F2GZ-9D289-A, if anyone ever needs it). I replaced it (a bit of a pain...story of another time) and I reset the ECU (disconnected the battery and stepped on the brake for about 10-15 seconds). Things were better for about a day, and then I got the rough idle while cold and it popped the P0301 again.

 

In my research I noticed a couple of people mentioned that replacing the Fuel Vapor Separator/Valve didn't always do it and that you needed to replace the Fuel Vapor Solenoid (part number 9U5Z-9F945C if anyone needs it). I got the part and replaced it (again, a bit more of a pain than I expected - story of my life). Again, I reset the ECU after replacing the unit. The vehicle started and ran fine immediately after replacing it and the next morning when it was cold. When I started it up after work I got the rough idle again and popped the same code (P0301). 

 

Question for everyone: what am I missing? This thing has all the hallmarks of a bad EGR valve (slight smell of gas, poor gas mileage, rough idle at start) but as far as I can tell these vehicles don't have it. When I look at the shop manual for the vehicle it gives the following for reasons for a P0301 code:

• Ignition System
• Fuel Injector 1 
• Running out of Fuel
• EVAP Purge Valve 
• Fuel Pressure
• Evaporative Emission System
• Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system
• Base engine
• misfire monitor neutral profile correction has not been relearned since the last mechanical repair

 

The full list of issues are:

Rough Idle When starting

Slight Smell of fuel

No rough idle for the first start or two after resetting the ECU

Changed out the Fuel Vapor Valve

Changed out the Fuel Vapor Valve Solenoid

Poor fuel economy

After start up and the engine has been running for 10-15 seconds, no more rough idle. Can normally get past it by having the engine rev for 3-5 seconds

 

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

Welcome.  As soon as I saw 2016 and 2.0 and a misfire code, I was ready to cry lol.

 

It may simply be the plugs need changing.  ecoboosts eat plugs for lunch, and 60K is a good interval to change them anyway regardless of engine.

 

if a plug change/code reset does not fix the problem, you MAY be looking at a coolant intrusion problem.  check the engine label on the right side of the valve cover.  post a pic plz.  does it say Cleveland or VEP.  how is the coolant level? you will want to mark current level with a marker, then follow progress daily/weekly.

 

do you have remaining ford warranty?

[edkene]

Znow,

 

thanks for the info. I’ll take a look at the valve cover and post a pic - family has been in town and haven’t had a chance to do anything in the past couple of days. I’ll also make sure to keep a closer eye on the coolant level. 
 

One thing that I have found is that the engine actually does better when it is cold - it isn’t until after it has warmed over that the misfires occur. 
 

From what I’ve been able to read and a couple of mechanics I’ve talked to this could be a symptom of a bad ignition coil - after they warm up they can start having issues but be fine when cold. I’m going to troubleshoot some more tomorrow and see if that is the case. Either way though I’m going to replace the spark plugs since I’ll pull #1 to see how it looks anyway. 

[1004ron]

Quote

After start up and the engine has been running for 10-15 seconds, no more rough idle.

With the engine off and cooling down, the coolant which is still under some pressure makes its way into the combustion chambers, and then when its started takes some time to displace that coolant - this theory could explain what you describe, but that is speculation, which is also what the couple of mechanics were doing.

 

Before spending money on spark plugs or coils, I'd follow WWWPerfA_ZN0W   advice to check your engines place of manufacture - also pulling all plugs and visually inspecting them will also reveal if there's coolant intrusion. 

[edkene]

Thanks 1004 - I’m planning to pull plugs this afternoon. As for the engine manufacturing location, it says Cleveland Engine Plant manufactured on 14 June 2016. 
 

looked up the TSB - this could really suck if engine coolant intrusion is the issue. 

[1004ron]

24 minutes ago, edkene said:

Thanks 1004 - I’m planning to pull plugs this afternoon. As for the engine manufacturing location, it says Cleveland Engine Plant manufactured on 14 June 2016. 
 

looked up the TSB - this could really suck if engine coolant intrusion is the issue. 

With your confirmation that its a Cleveland engine makes it more likely your engine has the coolant intrusion.

 

At least now you are well informed prior contacting Ford - use all the info on hand and stress to them that its a Latent defect and you expect  an engine replacement at no cost to you.

 

A work associate/friend  is the second owner of one of these, and Ford would not commit to any assistance until they'd opened the engine to diagnose, so he didn't want to risk them declining so he bought a new engine from Ford and had an independent shop install.

 

You didn't respond to the previous question if you had an extended warranty - anyway, the extended warranty has first amount payable by you, which you should reject in this case.

[my2k2zx2]

I had this code last year in our 2016 2.0.  I replaced the plugs but it did not clear the code.  I moved the coils around and the code moved as well.  I bought a used coil and the code has yet to return.