2020 SEL AWD RDU Fluid - Redline lightweight Shockproof work?

[lildisco]

Owners manual states 75W, but would Redline lightweight Shockproof work? Is going to be by first swap & I already bought some for the front PTU & getting ready for a road trip. Just wanted make sure that it would be OK. Currently just below 18,000. FordTechMakuloco says that it's specific 75W from Ford so I'm not sure if the ol smurf blood is compatible. 

[omar302]

Looking how Ford's oil is specific to this application, I wouldn't recommend using a "regular" gear oil in its place.

 

Link to Motorcraft page for this oil. It also states "Do not use in conventional high-offset hypoid gear axles where SAE 75W-85, 75W-90, 80W-90 or 75W-140 is recommended".

[lildisco]

Thanks! 

I thought that Redline was expensive ?

Motorcraft XY-75W-QL is over double the cost for 1 qt

[JGN12]

I'm very interested why you're planning to change this fluid.  Trying to get my head around my manual's scheduled maintenance for this being "never, unless it shows sign of leakage," and my local dealer's recommendation that the manual's "never needs servicing" is nonsense and it should be changed every 50,000 miles or so, and you're changing at 18,000 miles?  Please let me know what you've heard and why you're changing it.  Thanks

[lildisco]

33 minutes ago, JGN12 said:

I'm very interested why you're planning to change this fluid.  Trying to get my head around my manual's scheduled maintenance for this being "never, unless it shows sign of leakage," and my local dealer's recommendation that the manual's "never needs servicing" is nonsense and it should be changed every 50,000 miles or so, and you're changing at 18,000 miles?  Please let me know what you've heard and why you're changing it.  Thanks

 

 

 

 

[JGN12]

Thank you for the reply- I appreciate it.

I, personally, find his analysis unconvincing and ill-informed but that's just my opinion and he has his, and I get it and respect it. I'm still reluctant to go with the manual saying "never unless you see leaks, but I'm also an engineer that designs mechanical systems and I have written specified maintenance schedules on my own systems because I understand them better than a layman; so I'm reluctant to spend money and waste  resources if it's not necessary.  Still researching and learning...

Thank you again!

[lildisco]

Seeing how the fluid goes in light brown & comes out black or gray is enough for me to swap it out. Not to mention the shavings caught on each plug. 

[JGN12]

Thank you for your insight.

I'm still reluctantly going to go with the "never unless it leaks" until and unless I see some good quantitative data showing the Ford engineering mx schedule is flawed.

I get everything you're saying and what the mechanics are saying, but I'm a mechanical engineer that's spec'd complex systems myself and I also have 20 years experience looking at USAF SOAP/JOAP chemical oil samples of jet engines and helicopter transmissions and analyzing them to determine mx schedules. There's much more than gut feel based on color and shavings. That being said, there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with changing lubrication more often than spec'd.  It will indeed lead to increased life every single time.  The question is an economic and environmental question- should you change much more frequently to get a (maybe) longer life at greater expense or change according to the schedule to reduce expense and environmental impact.  It's the user's choice and like I said, I'm interested why you chose the former.  I understand it and appreciate it, but it's not yet for me.

[lildisco]

2 hours ago, JGN12 said:

Thank you for your insight.

I'm still reluctantly going to go with the "never unless it leaks" until and unless I see some good quantitative data showing the Ford engineering mx schedule is flawed.

I get everything you're saying and what the mechanics are saying, but I'm a mechanical engineer that's spec'd complex systems myself and I also have 20 years experience looking at USAF SOAP/JOAP chemical oil samples of jet engines and helicopter transmissions and analyzing them to determine mx schedules. There's much more than gut feel based on color and shavings. That being said, there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with changing lubrication more often than spec'd.  It will indeed lead to increased life every single time.  The question is an economic and environmental question- should you change much more frequently to get a (maybe) longer life at greater expense or change according to the schedule to reduce expense and environmental impact.  It's the user's choice and like I said, I'm interested why you chose the former.  I understand it and appreciate it, but it's not yet for me.

 

Not knocking you either. The previous Gen PTU's also stated that they didn't need serviced. Do a little bit of research on the previous Gen PTU issues & you can see that their recommendations/service intervals aren't always accurate. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by lildisco

[omar302]

2 hours ago, lildisco said:

 

Not knocking you either. The previous Gen RDU's also stated that they didn't need serviced. Do a little bit of research on the previous Gen RDU issues & you can see that their recommendations/service intervals aren't always accurate. 

 

If I'm not mistaken, the previous generation issues were from the PTU. RDU failures are rare.

As for @JGN12 point on maximum maintenance life, comparing vehicles (Ford) to other complex systems (including aeronautical), the difference lies, in my opinion, in designed service life. Planes & helicopters I believe are designed to serve a much longer life than automobiles. 

[lildisco]

37 minutes ago, omar302 said:

 

If I'm not mistaken, the previous generation issues were from the PTU. RDU failures are rare.

 

You are correct sir. Edited my post to relate. That's what I get for trying to multitask while getting the kid ready for bed. 

[JGN12]

omar302,

As to your first point re: PTU vs RDU, I have no knowledge about that.

As to your second point, you're correct that generally speaking (but not always), complex industrial and military mechanical systems are designed to an indefinite life with mx schedules designed accordingly to support an indefinite life. 

That begs the question, what did Ford intend for it's Edge when it specified NO lubrication service on the AWD system unless it showed leakage, yet, they're specifying 200,000 miles or 10 years initial replacement of engine coolant. To me, that indicates they're obviously looking way, way beyond 200K miles and 10 years for the AWD servicing.  I think they may have designed a mechanical unit that just needs some lubrication but is irrelevant about flaking or minor mechanical wear.  Just my thinking from my experience as a designer and an educated consumer.  They would never be motivated to recommend something that proves them wrong. I think it's possible they invented the equivalent of the "sealed roller bearing" in a gearbox.  When the un-serviceable sealed roller bearing came out, lots of folks threw down the red flag saying it was impossible.  Just a thought.

[dabangsta]

Having a semi related PTU is a similar vehicle (2012 Fusion Sport AWD 3.5 with an awf21 transmission), with no drain plug, and having that thick viscous goop forced out the vent, I wish it wasn't at 110,000 miles that I got it, and could have gotten to it sooner. I filled and removed as much "fluid" as I could a few times (no drain, so sucking out the nasty stuff), it has never been noisy that I can tell, and now that it mostly has fresh gear lube filled to where it should be, it hasn't been messy again.

 

This is what I found after parking on the same place a few nights in a row:

This is the best view I could get of the top of the transmission at the vent, a puddle of it:

[DILLARD000]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:47 PM, dabangsta said:

... PTU is a similar vehicle (2012 Fusion Sport AWD 3.5 with an awf21 transmission)

...no drain plug

...goop forced out the vent

...at 110,000 miles

...removed as much "fluid" as I could a few times...sucking out the nasty stuff

...never been noisy

...now that it mostly has fresh gear lube filled to where it should be, it hasn't been messy again.

...found after parking on the same place a few nights in a row:

 

...view I could get of the top...

 

 

Yep, your PTU GearOil went too long without being renewed; likely at least some bearing damage,

But may have caught soon enough it to keep it alive+running; recommend the following:

* Drill+Tap drain in PTU bottom, install Fumoto DrainValve.

* Remove Cap+Rubber1WayValve from TopVent leaving a HoseBarb, install VentHose up to under Hood between Battery & FuseBox.

* Remove RightSidePlug, install 90degElbow+FillHose up to under Hood between Battery & FuseBox.

* Install Combo FillCan+VentFilter under Hood between Battery & FuseBox, connecting above 2 Hoses.

* Drain+Renew PTU Oil via above items, HiTemp AmsOil or RedLine 75w140.FullSyn, every 6mths along with routine Engin Oil+Filter change.

May want to prepare yourself+budget for replacing PTU if it decides to die.  Also recommend above items when installing a new PTU.

 

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by 1004ron

[lildisco]

PTU done. I'll probably swap it again when I get closer to 30,000

[lildisco]

RDU done. Fluid wasn't terrible, but there was a lot of junk on the drain plug 

[lildisco]

~an hour of random driving, no leaks or unusual noises. Mission accomplished. 

 

I will say the fill hole plug is quite tricky to get a wrench on it. Had a breaker bar that wouldn't fit in all the way. Adequate pressure & patience is key. I'm sure someone with a larger tool arsenal might have something that can work better. Feel way better that it's done. Next up will probably be a transmission Drain & fill once we get back from vacation 

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:18 PM, omar302 said:

 

If I'm not mistaken, the previous generation issues were from the PTU. RDU failures are rare.

As for @JGN12 point on maximum maintenance life, comparing vehicles (Ford) to other complex systems (including aeronautical), the difference lies, in my opinion, in designed service life. Planes & helicopters I believe are designed to serve a much longer life than automobiles. 

yeah 2011+ have more problems with the RDUs than 2007-2010. probably because they changed awd programming to get that quicker rwd style launch without upgrading the internals significantly. increased vehicle power as well ... definitely not lack of fluid or airflow.

 

the taurus sho 2010+ also experiences rdu issues. but i have seen only 1 person so far (may he RIP) that has installed a drain plug on it.

[1004ron]

On 9/18/2021 at 5:20 PM, 1004ron said:

Today I did the second RDU oil change and this time I extracted more of the old oil than the previous time.

 

I attached a section of flexible silicone tubing to my oil extractors tubing with about 12" of coat hanger wire inside the tube, so that I could form a shepherds hook.

 

The look of the oil each time I've changed it, I'd say you can safely follow the owners manual, and forget about changing the RDU oil.

I've got 90K miles on mine and have changed the RDU oil three times and the above mentioned method extracts just about the full volume of oil.

 

The last fill I used Amsoil SEVERE GEAR® 75W-90

 

My RDU oil has looked like new each time.

[lildisco]

5 hours ago, 1004ron said:

I've got 90K miles on mine and have changed the RDU oil three times and the above mentioned method extracts just about the full volume of oil.

 

The last fill I used Amsoil SEVERE GEAR® 75W-90

 

My RDU oil has looked like new each time.

Do you have a drain plug or just a fill plug? The 2019+ have a different requirement for RDU fluid of just 75W. Unless you're referring to WWWPerfA_ZN0W's comment