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ignition coil malfunction


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118 replies to this topic

#101 OFFLINE   Brucifer

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 06:59 PM

Did the plugs on mine at 127k when I got it and they had the blue paint spot from the factory on them.

 

I have other issues, but used CBM anyways to test the PCM. Came back fine. Replaced the coils and plugs at 150k when I sent the PCM in. Even with overnight each way it will take 4 days to get from your hand and back into it. Did the coils/plugs while I waited.

 

http://www.fordedgef...-advice-on-pcm/


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#102 OFFLINE   enigma-2

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 10:47 PM

Thank you -- you raise a really good point. I don't have a clue about the plugs. I purchased the vehicle used with 125k and I'm at almost 154k now.


My 09 MKX Maintenance Manual requires plug change at 90k. Sooner you change plugs better chance you avoid PCM (and future coil) failure. (Pay me now or pay me later...)
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#103 OFFLINE   AlwaysSomething

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 03:23 PM

My 09 MKX Maintenance Manual requires plug change at 90k. Sooner you change plugs better chance you avoid PCM (and future coil) failure. (Pay me now or pay me later...)

 

Did the plugs on mine at 127k when I got it and they had the blue paint spot from the factory on them.

 

I have other issues, but used CBM anyways to test the PCM. Came back fine. Replaced the coils and plugs at 150k when I sent the PCM in. Even with overnight each way it will take 4 days to get from your hand and back into it. Did the coils/plugs while I waited.

 

http://www.fordedgef...-advice-on-pcm/

 

 

Thank you both. I'd like to think the spark plugs had been changed at least once before I bought the car, but I guess you never know. I'll take a peek at the front 3 to see if they're obviously the originals. 

 

Just to confirm... If you repair the PCM, you are correcting half of the issue, right? A refurbished/repaired part should no longer have the design flaw... Or is it a constant cycle of bad PCM = bad coils = bad PCM = bad coils and so on and so on, unless you're replacing the entire set of coils + spark plugs + coils all at once? If you have a repaired PCM & a coil goes bad after at minimum 30k problem free miles, is it really that likely that you're going to be looking at a damaged PCM all over again? 

 

This is what I received back from CBM today:

 

 

Thanks for emailing in about your Edge PCM.  There is definitely a chance that you have a refurbished PCM if it looks like it has been removed before.  However, you should be fine as long as the PCM has been programmed to the vehicle and the keys have been programmed (which seems like it has been if the vehicle worked well for 30k miles).  

 
In any situation, the failed ignitions coils (either original or replaced) will eventually short out and will cause damage to the PCM.  This is usually indicated by rough idle on the vehicle as well as the trouble codes of P0351 thru P0356.  Our repair will fix the PCM issues, it is tested on a vehicle before it leaves to verify our repair, and we 100% recommend replacing all 6 coils and plugs (with OEM Motorcraft) before installing the rebuilt PCM.
 

 

I just might not be able to do the coils & plugs myself before I need the car, so might just take it to Ford for the $400 to do coils & spark plugs 1-3. Wondering if I go a week or so before shipping PCM to CBM for testing if I'm going to end up with bad coils all over again.



#104 OFFLINE   addisonm06

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 03:56 PM

From my experience he reason the coils are bad is because the plugs are so worn out and the gap on the plug has degraded terribly.  I started noticing a misfire at just about 100k miles, mainly while under load (which makes sense because the plug is working harder under a load). 

 

Turns out, i had a coil that cracked/exploded, ive never seen a coil do this before.  The cause of the coil going bad from the spark plug caused a backfeed to my pcm; in turn ruining my pcm.  

 

I decided to change just that coil and plug.  BAD IDEA!

 

3 months later.. misfire on another cylinder.  Luckily it was just the plug, but while i was in there, i replaced all the plugs!

 

Its hard to say that the likelyhood of a bad coil will cause the PCM to be damaged each time... but from my experience and already having it happen once, it's probably more common than we think.  Also reading the amount of people who have had similar experiences, i tend to think its more likely than not.  When it comes to electronics, i tend to believe that anything is possible. 

 

At the very very least, change every spark plug right NOW! do not wait for a bigger issue!

 

It took me about an hour to change all 6 spark plugs.  Me and the father in law, used MACBWT's youtube video and it was a breeze! It is not hard, just a bit tedious. Following his video and you will be fine! It will save you a lot of $$$.


Edited by addisonm06, 16 October 2017 - 04:00 PM.

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#105 OFFLINE   AlwaysSomething

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 04:37 PM

Thank you addisonm06!

Yes clearly it's an incredibly widespread issue with this model year! Such a shame it has not been upgraded to a recall although I understand why it has not been. I am just having a little trouble determining(/comprehending??) some of the finite details of the remedy...

When PCM + coils + spark plugs are replaced/refurbished, is this known design flaw effectively FIXED? Or even with the refurbished PCM, will it still continue to be a cycle of coils & PCM failures?

In other words... Will the refurbished PCM now have the protection from bad coils that the original one did not?? If a coil goes bad from normal wear & tear/lax maintenance, are we 2007-2008 Ford Edge owners forever stuck replacing/repairing PCMs?

Apologies for my ignorance. If you couldn't tell, I'm just another chick who's not mechanically inclined.

Edited by AlwaysSomething, 16 October 2017 - 04:43 PM.


#106 OFFLINE   AlwaysSomething

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 04:41 PM

I did just grab new [OEM Motorcraft] spark plugs and am not driving the car, unless it's to the Ford dealership if I give up. Although one of the local dealerships just quoted me $660 to replace coil #1 and spark plugs on #1-3 😡

#107 OFFLINE   enigma-2

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 05:51 PM

Thank you addisonm06!

Yes clearly it's an incredibly widespread issue with this model year! Such a shame it has not been upgraded to a recall although I understand why it has not been.

Its not a design flaw, nor should it be considered ad a recall item. It's a failure of thr owner to perform the routine maintenance of changing the plugs at 90,000 miles.

When you replace the plugs and coils, you should be ok with the PCM. Usually it's the feedback from a defective coils that causes additional load on the output and the PCM fails. If it hasn't failed currently, it should be OK (no one can really tell without doing a lot of tests on the unit).

Edited by enigma-2, 16 October 2017 - 05:57 PM.

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#108 OFFLINE   enigma-2

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 06:08 PM

Wondering if I go a week or so before shipping PCM to CBM for testing if I'm going to end up with bad coils all over again.

The coils fail because the plugs were not changed. The gap grows too large, this requires more and more current to fire across the larger gap and this extra current heats up the coils over the safe operating temperature. When they get too hot, they fail. The PCM fails when a coil (or coils) fail.

As the plugs were never changed, there are other areas to be concerned about. Change coolant, PTU lubricant (if AWD) and transmission fluid. Less important are brake, power steering and rear axle fluids. Wouldn't hurt to take a peek at the air filter, cabin air filter and seat blower filters (if you have seat cooling).
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#109 OFFLINE   addisonm06

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 07:46 AM

Thank you addisonm06!

Yes clearly it's an incredibly widespread issue with this model year! Such a shame it has not been upgraded to a recall although I understand why it has not been. I am just having a little trouble determining(/comprehending??) some of the finite details of the remedy...

When PCM + coils + spark plugs are replaced/refurbished, is this known design flaw effectively FIXED? Or even with the refurbished PCM, will it still continue to be a cycle of coils & PCM failures?

In other words... Will the refurbished PCM now have the protection from bad coils that the original one did not?? If a coil goes bad from normal wear & tear/lax maintenance, are we 2007-2008 Ford Edge owners forever stuck replacing/repairing PCMs?

Apologies for my ignorance. If you couldn't tell, I'm just another chick who's not mechanically inclined.

 

 

Ford did put out a tsb on the issue to make people "aware" of the problem. 

 

Unfortunately Like Engima stated, its considered  "Routine Maintenance" as the owner is responsible, so its technically not covered by warranties or recalls.

 

The $650 that the shop is quoting you for is not terribly bad.  I was quoted right around that before i said id try it myself lol.  96% of that cost is all labor as you have to take off the top of the intake manifold. 

 

If the PCM+COILS+PLUGS are replaced, i would assume that you should be OK for another 75k miles; at which point, the plugs would than need to be changed again.  Repairing just the PCM alone will NOT give it anymore protection than it had Brand New. It merely fixes it to like-new condition. Therefore, if all plugs and coils are not replaced, and you have the misfire/coil issue again there is a potential that it could ruin the PCM again (no greater/no less of a chance than the first time; the same potential). 

 

When i had the issue, i replaced all 6 Plugs with OEM Motorcraft plugs and inspected all the coils.  I did not replace all the coils as the others looked fine.  If i had the spare $$ to spend on 5 more coils, i would have for peace of mind.  Ive been driving about 15-20k miles so far and no more issues since. 

 

No worries about the lack of knowledge! thats what everyone is here for! I couldnt tell you how lost i would be without the help of others on here! 


Edited by addisonm06, 17 October 2017 - 11:00 AM.

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#110 OFFLINE   AlwaysSomething

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 11:01 PM

Thank you everyone!!

Well, finally opened it up today. Spark plugs had all been replaced (with OEM Motorcraft) not terribly long ago. 5 of the 6 coils were sporting Duralast stickers, so I'm guessing someone went to AutoZone and replaced (almost) everything. Bad coil was one of the Duralast and didn't look abnormal in any way.

We do all new OEM spark plugs and I replaced coils #1 through 3 with new Denso coils. Did new PCV valve & hose.

Closed it all up, reset battery...

Started up a little rough, let it run a bit, turned it off. Started it a second time & CEL came back on instantly. 😡

Reset battery again, same thing. Chugged a bit. Second time starting it also brought check engine light.

Wondered if we screwed something up putting it back together and went down to Harbor Freight for a code reader.

Same code... Coil #1. Cleared code & again second time starting it turned CEL back on.

So now I'm suspecting it was just the damn PCM the whole time, even though PCM, all spark plugs & at least 5 of 6 coils had all been replaced somewhat recently. Oh, PCV valve & hose were also almost brand new. Again also absolutely zero issues (with the motor at least) in the 30k miles I've had it.

I guess we'll try the spark plug wiring / coil harness first but... I'm almost $400 in already when you include all the tools & code reader.

#111 OFFLINE   enigma-2

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 01:30 AM

It almost a sounds like your in a vicious circle of one thing leading to another. It is possible for the PCM to fry a coil. If it's defective it can tell coil #1 to fire continously, overheating the coil. Wouldn't think so as it's been replaced, but if a bad coil weakened the PCM and then replaced, allowing the PCM to now damage the coil.

You could pull the PCM anf have it tested. If it's defective it's $300. https://circuitboard...pcm-ecm-repair/
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#112 OFFLINE   AlwaysSomething

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 02:43 AM

Throwing the same code though, p0351, even after replacing the coil it said was bad -- car never left driveway after replacing coils& spark plugs before engine light came back on, after resetting computer/battery twice & deleting the error with the code reader. Couldn't possibly be instantly frying the brand new coil in a matter of minutes??

Edited by AlwaysSomething, 21 October 2017 - 11:17 AM.


#113 OFFLINE   AlwaysSomething

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 03:27 AM

The supposed bad coil that we removed & replaced with a brand new one today. All the coils look like this. I was expecting/hoping for obvious visible damage!

Https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/fr/cp0/e15/q65/22550188_10156717423203662_4908256502580000370_o.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=6fe14c29f50a84cd22db4c68911e1147&oe=5A7ECF29

#114 OFFLINE   akirby

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 06:27 AM

 
Unfortunately Like Engima stated, its considered  "Routine Maintenance" as the owner is responsible, so its technically not covered by warranties or recalls.


Not true. It is covered by the factory warranty if it occurs during the warranty period. Ford simply chose not to extend the factory warranty on these parts. Recalls are strictly for safety issues.

I do think they should have extended the warranty.
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#115 OFFLINE   macbwt

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 06:40 PM

Repair the PCM and install a new coil.  You should be back on the road without an issue.


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#116 OFFLINE   Tdog468

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 03:50 PM

Im running into the same issue. Just recently replaced 3 coil packs to find the it was still throwing P0351, 0352, and 0354, though Im not still receiving the P0302 misfire that I was receiving prior to changing the coil packs. Im sending the PCM off for repair. After changing the coils, it never left the driveway. Worth changing the brand new coils packs after I get the PCM back or should I be OK? Anyone tried this?

#117 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 01:28 AM

I think you would be ok if you never drove it after the replacement.  Check the resistance on the coils to confirm.



#118 OFFLINE   Pete K

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 12:58 PM

It's been a long time.
As stated early in this thread, I repaired my 07 with new parts as per the TSB.
96,000 miles on it now, and no repeat failure. Knock on wood.
I may toss in a new set of spark plugs at 100K.
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#119 OFFLINE   WWWPerfA_ZN0W

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 10:02 AM

Great to hear!






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