quincy Posted November 17, 2018 Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 Happened in an instant. No warning. Hit the brakes on the freeway due to an accident occurring up ahead. Had plenty of room between the semi in front of me. Was able to whip over to the shoulder and get the vehicle to stop. Brake pedal would just go to the floor. Just a little bit of stopping power at the very bottom of the pedal. Opened hood and looked at brake fluid level, which was at the top. This indicates no external leak. No lights on dashboard indicating any type of brake failure. Towed to Ford Dealership in Crossville Tennessee on November 1, 2018. Still at the dealership as of November 17th. Over three weeks. Note: Ford vehicle at Ford dealership for repair. (they made it - they should be able to fix it) Vehicle has always been to a Ford Dealership for ALL maintenance. Never taken to a private tech shop, ever. No TSB's. No codes thrown. According to service write up their tech has been in contact with Ford Tech Help in Michigan. Dealership had to order some 'special fittings' to test ABS Control Unit. It took one week to get these special fittings. Test of ABS Control Unit passed. Then Dealership replaced the Vacuum Booster, upon my instance, and per a letter I received and produced to them from Ford Motor Company about its potential failure back in Jan 2014. All brake pads, all rotors, all calipers are in excellent and fully functional condition. Brake System was bled by the Ford Dealership......did not help. Still no brake pedal. Now we are entering into "parts changing mode". A complete ABS/Traction Control Module is on order. $$$$$$ It will take at least another week to get the part to the dealership. (sidebar note: how come amazon can ship in one day, for free??) I am now under the opinion, right or wrong, that there is a major engineering design issue with this braking system. I am also under the opinion that Ford Motor Company is performing a cover up to avoid a major recall and to avoid further erosion of their stock share price. So, I am sitting on a $32K vehicle with no brakes and no fix in sight. Its current value is ZERO. BTW, I am the original owner, purchased new in late fall of 2011. If any Ford Tech ANYWHERE has ANY idea of what to try next feel free to contact the Ford Dealership In Crossville Tn. Number is 931.484.5135, ask for J-J, Service Write Up. Reference: Red Ford Edge with No Brakes......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trom11 Posted November 17, 2018 Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 Not sure if this is the issue but something I found with my car having a similar issue, not as severe as yours though. https://ford.oemdtc.com/2280/13n02-extended-warranty-coverage-on-brake-booster-2010-2013-ford-edge-lincoln-mkx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted November 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 trom11........please re-read my above original post. The dealership (states that they) replaced the Vacuum Booster upon my insistence. It did not help the issue. Is it possible they lie? Perhaps. Next closest Ford Dealership is over 60 miles away.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar302 Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 I am sure you'll get better responses from more experienced members, from my experience, when a brake pedal goes to the floor, the first thing to suspect is the brake Master Cylinder. There are no design issues as this is not a common problem. It seems to me it is a dealer issue. I'd suggest you call the Ford helpline or customer service number and raise the issue with them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 Sometimes when replacing the booster, the seal between the master cylinder and booster can be damaged. If that happens, fluid will leak into the booster over time and destroy the booster. So definitely have it checked as low as possible. Another possibility is that air was introduced into the ABS system. That needs special procedures to bleed, normally a shop with access to IDS/high level scan tool can do this. Forscan can now do this as well, so if you can get access to a Windows-based device to load it on, worth a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted November 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 omar302: One does not need to perform a lot of searching on the internet to discover that this is an issue with many Ford Edge vehicles. Many owners have placed videos on Youtube showing the actual event occuring. Most owners have not taken their vehicles to the dealership. Repairs performed at these outside service centers have not corrected the issue. Not being able to properly repair the problem tells me that the true root cause of the failure mode has not been discovered or is being withheld / hidden. In some owners cases it was partially corrected but returned after 3 months. I will try to look up the Ford Customer Service phone number and give them a call on Monday. I plan on calling the service manager (who has been on vacation for 2 weeks) and ask him to get involved. If you happen to know the number please post it here. wwwperfa_znow: I don't doubt your statement, but it does not apply in this case. If you carefully re-read my post you will discover that the dealership first bled the entire brake system to no avail. Then they ran a test on the ABS/Traction control unit, which required special fittings (which took a week to obtain). Then, when the unit passed tests and was fully bled once again they installed the new booster at my proding. Still no brake pedal. Now they want to R & R the entire ABS module ($$$) even though it had passed previous tests provided by FoMoCo. It is my opinion they are out of ideas and are now into parts changing mode. My only other option is to have it towed 60 miles to another Ford Dealership, which is ludericious. All FoMoCo technicians are trained and certified, and constantly take online classes to continue their education. This is why I always take my Ford vehicle to a Ford Dealership for any service work. They should know how to repair the product they manufacture and sell....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 All of the cases I can remember were the booster and/or the master cylinder (barring an actual fluid leak somewhere). There is an extended warranty on the booster. Just because they said they replaced something doesn't mean they did it correctly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted November 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 akirby: Correct....we are all humans, and humans can and do make mistakes. I would hope that in the case of brakes, a critical safety item that affects both life and limb, humans involved in their repair would be extra careful. I would expect that. Just like I would expect a doctor performing a critical procedure on a loved one........But, lying is not acceptable just to 'blow a customer' off or to BS them. That should cost someone their job....my 2 cents. I know the world does not work that way, but that is the way I have lived my life, the way I was raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted November 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 Got my 2012 Ford Edge back from the dealership today...... Yep....not happy. Brakes feel mushy and don't engage till half of the pedal is depressed. Dealer says that's the best he can do and it's the 'new normal'. 2 yr / 24K mile warranty on repair. 50K currently on vehicle. Plus, vehicle given back to me filthy dirty inside and out...... $873.00 repair bill. 20 days in the shop. I'll call Ford Customer Service at 800-392-3673 next week. Sad....I used to really like this vehicle. Don't trust it anymore / lost faith in FoMoCo. (was planning on a Escape purchase in the spring for the wife, but now....?) Parts changed: DT4Z-2C215-A - ABS MODULE 84032 - BRAKE FLUSH BT4Z-2005-A - BOOSTER ASSY. PM-1-C - FLUID - BRAKE AT4Z-9H486-A - GASKET 3M5Z-2L523-AA - BUSH(ING) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted November 22, 2018 Report Share Posted November 22, 2018 Maybe need to change the dealer, but def pursue with FCS as you are planning to. Sometimes they can grease the way to a successful conclusion. Ridiculous that such a simple problem cannot be addressed at a dealership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted November 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2018 According to the dealership they have had great difficulty with other Ford Edge vehicles with this same issue. (loss of brakes-no external leak path.) Cleaned up the vehicle yesterday afternoon. Opened the hood......Dealer forgot to reinstall the plastic acoustic engine cover. Guess the technician figured I didn't need it or want it anymore and threw it away. They have to order a new one, next week sometime.....I'm for sure not paying for it. Can a vehicles title be brandished for a mechanical issue, like unfixable brakes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted November 22, 2018 Report Share Posted November 22, 2018 yeah it's the car not the dealership. LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted November 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2018 Actually, this is the first I have had any type of 'repair work' performed by this particular dealership. First time this particular Ford vehicle (I've had a bunch over the years) has had any mechanical work performed. I've never lost brakes before, on any vehicle. Oldest being a 1954 Chevy Belair. I don't feel their 'repair' really corrected the issue....... They perform 'so so' doing oil changes, filter changes, and such.....no excuse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted November 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 Called Ford Customer Service today (11/26/18). 800-392-3673. Located in the Philippines. Connection was very poor quality and english was poor as well. No other way to contact Ford. You can write a letter to a PO box, not even a real person. Given case # CAS16450691. But, I have to deal with the same dealership, East Tennessee Ford. So, if the dealership is incompetent (which may be the case) your back into their shop again. What a screwed up system of customer care, in my opinion. Anyone have another route they may have taken for issues of this nature?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 Social media (@FordService) might be the next best bet. Don't know any insider info ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted November 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 Hummm. I don't do social media so that door is closed. What a debacle, but not really unexpected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Closing the loop on this subject. It's important to always close the loop on major issues so people can learn, save time, energy, money, or their lives! This ordeal has taken from November 30th to December 3rd, 2018. An eternity when your dealing with loss of brakes! Went back to the same dealership yet again today to have yet another 'brake flush' or power bleed performed on my vehicle. I complained over and over that the brakes felt like mush and the pedal would go to the floor. It took the dealership ~ 2.5 hours to perform the bleed. The service manager was now involved, upon my insistence. I got the vehicle back and low and behold, my brakes feel like original equipment, brand new, off the lot!! So, what happened that was different?? The first tech did not perform the bleed procedure as specified in the manual. The second tech did. This is the story I am being told....... There is a very specific procedure called out and if you take any shortcuts you will not have a decent brake pedal. Even though I got the run around and lied to about many things, I am happy to say my brakes are finally fixed! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWPerfA_ZN0W Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Do you know if they performed a regular 4 corner bleed or if they bled the HCU. With the HCU, apparently you have to engage/disengage the parking brake a few times during the process (gen 1.5 at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Bleed included the HCU. And yes, as explained to me the parking brake was applied multiple times during the process and at least 30 pounds of force applied to the brake pedal. That did the trick and I am once again with proper brakes. I hope others with this same issue are lucky enough to read this post to gain some knowledge. If you can, please copy and paste the Ford procedure for this unique bleed process below. It may save someone from a crash or worse......Thanks. I do not fully understand the failure mode on this event, and do not want to experience it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1004ron Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 On 12/3/2018 at 7:34 PM, quincy said: Closing the loop on this subject. It's important to always close the loop on major issues so people can learn, save time, energy, money, or their lives! This ordeal has taken from November 30th to December 3rd, 2018. An eternity when your dealing with loss of brakes! Went back to the same dealership yet again today to have yet another 'brake flush' or power bleed performed on my vehicle. I complained over and over that the brakes felt like mush and the pedal would go to the floor. It took the dealership ~ 2.5 hours to perform the bleed. The service manager was now involved, upon my insistence. I got the vehicle back and low and behold, my brakes feel like original equipment, brand new, off the lot!! So, what happened that was different?? The first tech did not perform the bleed procedure as specified in the manual. The second tech did. This is the story I am being told....... There is a very specific procedure called out and if you take any shortcuts you will not have a decent brake pedal. Even though I got the run around and lied to about many things, I am happy to say my brakes are finally fixed! Looks like @akirby was right all along. I'm lucky to have a few Ford dealerships to chose from and use one that is +30 min drive from the one closest to me, because of poor service from the one closest to me when I took a company vehicle to them. On 11/19/2018 at 10:17 AM, akirby said: All of the cases I can remember were the booster and/or the master cylinder (barring an actual fluid leak somewhere). There is an extended warranty on the booster. Just because they said they replaced something doesn't mean they did it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelSil Posted July 19, 2019 Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Came across this thread and just had this happen to my 13 Edge even though my brakes are still somewhat operational. A Ford dealership in Delaware I take it to told me it is the brake booster and there is a bulletin #13N02 for 2010-2013 Edge with this exact issue. But guess what, mine was not on the list so I called Ford and got a case started to have this covered. I was told not to drive the car until it is repaired. Here is the link to my thread regarding the issue: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quincy Posted July 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2019 Interesting nugget of data / information that I can not verify as of July 2019. I no longer take my Ford to the Ford dealership because they have lost my trust. I now take it to the local shop who I allow to work on my 1999 Plymouth Prowler. I had the Prowler in for an oil change and was talking to the master mechanic. The subject came up about the loss of brakes on my Ford Edge. He was familiar with the issue, which surprised me. He stated that it is an issue with the master cylinder and some internal seals. They get pushed out of their 'seat' creating an internal leak. The fluid pressure can not build up as required. He said that if you pull the brake pedal back very quickly and with a lot of force that will temporally correct the problem. (pull the seals back into place?) In his words only a rebuilt master cylinder will permanently correct the issue. New master cylinders will suffer from the same issue (perhaps a manufacturing spill??) Any way so far so good on the brake fix. But, in the back of my mind I'm waiting for this to occur once again...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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