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It is also possible that Apple may be trying to push people to Car Play for auto informtainment options. They have been guilty of this in the past, making Apple devices play nicer with other Apple devices over cheaper commercially available competitors.

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ok - how is hands free, eye's free, distracted driving helped when I'm forced to look for/at my phone to interact with the "button" versus simply using my voice to issue the very same cmd and leaving it in my back pocket as I do now. (I just won't be launching pandora bedfo

 

It's okay. you [akirby] can give in and admit you're wrong. I won't think less of you for it. One of the two of them made a bad design decision or overlooked the obvious. There should be NO RESTRICTIONS when utilizing voice control which since talking is not a consideration for distracted driving is a logical way to "safely" interact with any technology while driving.

 

BTW, I'm deadly serious about drivers that "phone to ear talk on the phone", check email/social media status, or flat out text or answer emails. I've even caught and confronted police doing all of the above while they're driving. (not sure what service they were using, but clearly "on the smart phone with their thumb going"!)

 

(ps. relax .. now I'm pushing your buttons.)

 

April of last year Cliff notes: (TL:DR)

"no input from the car and uses the iPhone's accelerometer and other on-board sensors to determine when a user is driving"

"Another method uses direct input from a car, which sends a signal to the iPhone that blocks a user from text messaging and using other mobile phone functions while behind the wheel."

"would allow a phone to be used in a car by the passenger"

 

All of which points to nothing in place now.... possibly on the way and possibly triggered by the vehicle. How else would Siri now where I was unless she was told, by MFT.

 

Here is an app to give iPhone that "F-you, you're in the car" functionality. Why is there an app(s) to do this if its builtin and a function of iPhone.

Edited by Tacyon

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I tried saying open I heart radio and then I tried play I heart radio and both worked Also directions to home open up the Apple maps just like prior poster

I agree testing is the correct approach

I'm glad we tested it to find out the truth before posting our opinion and trying to put them out as fact. Sidenote I do not have 29 years IT experience. :)

Pandora and Spotify would not open I got those messages but I heart radio worked

 

Additional fact I was driving when I press the button on the steering wheel to get that functionality

Edited by drpepper

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The restrictions have nothing to do with logic and everything to do with lawsuit avoidance. Blame the chick who spilled hot coffee on herself and sued Mickey D's and won.

 

Also - not allowing you to do something via voice command is not "forcing" you to look at your phone. You should not be looking at your phone for anything while driving.

 

Siri knows you connected to it from a car because the car is using the eyes free bluetooth interface. When you send commands via that interface Siri has programmed restrictions - that's not coming from the car. All the car does is pass the commands and responses back and forth.

 

Now if you want to explain where I was wrong I'm listening.

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Is it Ford? Siri? Apple? App itself? combo?

I tested iheart radio and had functionality. I tested Apple maps & had functionality. Lets stop talking in absolutes - that lead to the back & forth...when we ALL need to test report results & see if others can duplicate. (Mod included ..PRIOR ..to facts or opinion or whatever it is - sure does appear to blur the line many times)

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FYI: asking Siri to open the native music app to listen to a playlist or listen to Apple Music(find Queen, Fat bottom girls) worked fine for me. It also again auto switched to BT feed for me. Skipping the MTF command to select BT audio.

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The testing is just trying to figure out what Siri is restricting or not and whether there is a bug that causes previously allowed commands to suddenly not be allowed.

 

This is 100% apple.

 

If you want to continue to debate whether it's being controlled by apple or Ford then we should start a new thread.

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So the fact that Siri says "can't do that while you're in the car" isn't proof enough?

 

NO -not proof enough to possible draw false conclusion to think all apps will not work cause apple restricts due to playing through auto.

 

since calling on SIri via steering wheel allows iheart radio streaming but not pandora streaming or apple maps vs google maps.

 

SO there is more to it than a broad -its through car its restricted- was point of many

 

My point from way back was - great a new feature- do we fend for our selves on what it can and can not do or would the almighty Ford that released it and charges us all big$$ to have this infoentertaimnent- would they not just release feature but give some feedback on how to use and restrictions.

Edited by drpepper

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You completely missed my point. My point was APPLE is deciding which apps you can or can't use, not MFT. MFT is simply a pass through to Siri.

 

Generally speaking APPLE has decided that you shouldn't use things that require you to look at a screen to use them. They may have other reasons.

 

Should Ford provide better tutorials on how to use it? Yes. But then again I'm not sure that Apple actually documents all of these restrictions in detail. I certainly didn't find them doing a google search.

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Leave ford out of it and research what is there now for iOS in the way of automotive and driving restriction. Other than a tech patent and some apps, I'm not seeing anything (yet). And of the apps I've found, there are settings, triggers, installs. Ever the "built in" stuff discussed by the carries there are limits like only preventing texting. (does that even include answering an email) side discussion, I get a text, MFT reads it to me. I get pulled over for what ever and the police scans my smartfone and sees that I've just read a text. I was hands (and eyes) free. So, illegal? I think not counselor.

 

My and I suspect other's point Akirby, is that you can NOT say 100% that its iOS as much as I can not say 100% its ford. But my opinion is that ford is the culprit. Either by passing a "nullify" bit along to iOS or who knows. And I base MY opinion on what I know about these systems. My testing and those results. And my prejudices which i CAN say are equally biased.

I love my Ford but it aggravates me from time to time.

I use my iPhone as a tool but strongly dislike it partly because of all the sheeple that bought into the propaganda. (the one I have is work deployed and I'm required to carry it. Server downs are a bi*ch at 2am) Too many things to brother listing here.

With that being said .. I don't think this is an iOS thing. It may be, but I don't think so.

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My and I suspect other's point Akirby, is that you can NOT say 100% that its iOS as much as I can not say 100% its ford. But my opinion is that ford is the culprit.

 

You're right. I can only say 99.99%.

 

Look - at least 2 and probably 3 IT professionals are telling you it's IOS. If you choose not to believe us then so be it.

 

But then you'd have to explain why it does exactly the same thing in other vehicles.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/2gkepz/siri_refusing_to_do_something_because_i_was/

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6608465?start=0&tstart=0

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7215540?start=0&tstart=0

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_29114485/apple-carplay-can-it-get-you-taqueria

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6983232?start=45&tstart=0

https://www.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/3haceh/siri_voice_command_take_me_home_silently_fails_in/

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You guys think you have it bad? In my Edge, when Siri closes and MFT stays on BT, Adele starts playing. Now that's just wrong!!!!

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You're right. I can only say 99.99%.

 

Look - at least 2 and probably 3 IT professionals are telling you it's IOS. If you choose not to believe us then so be it.

 

But then you'd have to explain why it does exactly the same thing in other vehicles.

 

 

And as stated prior- my posts were not to say Ford at fault for how it operates..

my point is Ford is not doing anyone any favors by putting a new feature on their expense software release and than have no clue how it works and what the restrictions are ( or not share) and then the end user Tries the new feature on a FORD release and is DISSASTIFIED on how it works. Ford MUST do a better job communicating how their MFT works knowing it will interface with Apple and Android & windows and whatever....

 

Look -us posters here- are more likely tech savvy and interested in using the feature and run into issues... the other vehicle owners that are not at all and then try to use feature are even further disillusioned.

 

Then add on top the suspicion that Ford software does have SOME play in any problem- why --cause we have 5 + years of proof- it is hard to separate what is a true phone or phone software issue vs MFT release. In any event- there seems to be a perception of how they all do not play along nicely before it gets to the end user who --bottom line-- sees a feature work or not work- and a consumer expectation on how it should work in the absence of a Ford directive will take it in their own mind on how it should work. Then they test and get bitter on why Ford did not test and share what they found instead of the other way around.

 

.

Edited by drpepper

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I never said that Ford shouldn't do a better job communicating new features. My last post was for Tacyon who continues to believe the restrictions are being dictated by MFT rather than Apple.

 

BTW - while googling the links above I came across a few mfr guides for Eyes Free and they all said the same thing Ford said - very general terms about what you can do while driving and how to activate Siri - but absolutely no detail from anybody about what is or isn't allowed specifically. So in that regard Ford seems to be no worse than any other mfr.

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Finally found this:

 

 

6.4 Siri Eyes Free Mode
Siri Eyes Free mode is a feature to control Siri responses that include display information and can be enabled
or disabled as needed. Siri Eyes Free mode is supported only for Bluetooth-enabled vehicle entertainment
systems and should not be used by any other accessories.

The iOS device will listen for the HFP AT command AT+APLEFM to enable or disable Eyes Free mode.
This command is used by the iOS device to modify Siri responses that contain visual information or require
user interaction. Suitable audio feedback and voice commands will be available to the user based on the Siri
use-case that was initiated.

Eyes Free mode is disabled by default. Once the accessory has enabled Eyes Free mode, it remains enabled for
all subsequent Siri sessions initiated from the accessory until the accessory disables it or the Bluetooth connection
is disconnected.

 

This is from the interface spec. Eyes Free is specifically for vehicles only. All MFT can do is enable or disable Eyes Free mode - there is no flag that tells Eyes Free what can or cannot be done when in Eyes Free mode.

 

Read for yourself:

https://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/BluetoothDesignGuidelines.pdf

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On a positive note, ever since updating MFT, the ambient lighting does not reset on it's own. :)

Edited by mcali6301

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On a positive note, ever since updating MFT, the ambient lighting does not reset on it's own. :)

As far as I'm concerned, that's the one benefit of the laws of probability.

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Thanks! I didn't know about the "Play Voice over Bluetooth" in Navigation. I now have it unchecked.

 

Originally I disabled Media over Bluetooth in the BT connections.

Seems like when phone is connected via Bluetooth to the car, it is now "informed" by the car that it is on whereas previously it was doing it ONLY after switching to Bluetooth Source. Therefore, the problem is that phone "thinks" that I will hear the outputs via bluetooth but I won't because I am actually listening to other source. So, MFT fools phone into always sending voice over bluetooth even though I won't hear it.

 

Second issue is worse as I have no idea how to remedy it. When I ask Google for some info like "Traffic to home", it responds over car audio. Now, whatever was on (radio/CD/USB) is interupted (good!) but the playing audio volume is so low I cannot hear it. And the worst part is I cannot now make it work through phone speakers so Google assistant is ALWAYS routed through car audio (even when "Media Audio" is unchecked in the bluetooth settings of the phone for SYNC device).

 

Ford, why can't you make a separate volume control for Voice (from car) and Voice (from Bluetooth devices)? If I want to hear Google assistant, then car prompts and messages will be way too loud. Since I hate too loud car prompts, I can barely hear Google assistant.

Hey, devs at Ford. Can you comment on this? Can this be fixed?

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On a positive note, ever since updating MFT, the ambient lighting does not reset on it's own. :)

Yippee hooray! As many know from my prior posts this was a bitter subject. The flat out lies and disconnects and BLAMMING APPLE PHONE!!!$ yes they did . Several times!!!!

total waste of time from corporate to the dealer to the regional rep to the field service engineer when ford Corp knew all along it was screwed up and they just quietly pass this fix through but denied it all summer . Oh wait before I get a comment back- I do not hate MFT. . I hate the BS Corp peddled but at least am pleased it is fixed. many other people have noticed and I appreciate that I'm so glad I stuck to my guns to keep posting despite certain peoples minimizing the problem. Apologize to eople if are tired of hearing the tirade as it's been put--- but I'll take a ford apology from the Ford rep who PM me and suggested it was always the phone and the dealer when it was really a software update that they refused to acknowledge and have me driving a rental car and had me disconnect the phone and drive for a month with no phone connected to get to the magical 20 hours reboot that they would not acknowledge---- to prove that it wasn't the phone it was really MFT software all along .

Edited by drpepper

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"is supported only for Bluetooth-enabled vehicle entertainment systems and should not be used by any other accessories" so no testing outside of an automotive environment.


"feature to control Siri responses that include display information and can be enabled or disabled as needed." ""can be enabled or disabled"" which device determines this, iOS or the Accessory giving the Siri connection the AT cmds? Secondly, it "can be enabled or disabled", the option is there to be told enable or disable restrictions.


" iOS device will listen for the HFP AT command AT+APLEFM to enable or disable Eyes Free mode." This is the function that Ford added to active the existing Eye Free mode.


"This command is used by the iOS device to modify Siri responses that contain visual information or require user interaction. Suitable audio feedback and voice commands will be available to the user based on the Siri use-case that was initiated." I'm reading this as Siri is being told how [restricted] to interact with the Eye Free Accessory (see quote #2)


Unless I missed it, what I didn't read in that PDF was where iOS, while in Eyes Free mode, enforces a restriction on apps that cannot be used while in Eyes Free mode. What it does say is that the option is there to "...control Siri responses that include display information...” and that those options "can be enabled or disabled as needed."


So again, Siri is doing what she is told to do which also is reflected that even WHILE in the Eyes Free mode ["Once the accessory has enabled Eyes Free mode, it remains enabled for all subsequent Siri sessions initiated from the accessory until the accessory disables it or the Bluetooth connection is disconnected."], I can still cause her via voice cmds to do whatever the hell I tell her to.


So again, speculation aside (including links from other forums where sheeple have echoed the same speculations) I don't see where Siri is the cause here. She is doing as she has been told, don't allow "X" if asked to do so while in Eye Free mode.


Now, all of this banter and programming fodder aside, can we at least agree that being able to use ones voice to cause the car and now Siri to do things without the need to physically (hands or eyes) interact with either the car or the "Accessory" is the reason for voice recognition/cmds to begin with? And if so, me (and others) expecting to be able to say "Siri - Open Pandora, station Christmas, Play." or simply "open Pandora and play" all while my iPhone is in my back pocket IS the intuitive action to be expected.


p.s. "...2 and probably 3 (self proclaimed) IT professionals..." PM me your real name and company and I'll verify for myself. Until then, self proclaimed.

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Apple is definitely the cause. its basically doing the same thing MFT does while the car is in motion i.e. Not allowing touch screen input to change an address in the nav. Most of apples native apps work fine "eyes free" cause of how they were written to work with CAR PLAY. It's stuff like Pandora and non apple apps that "Siri" won't let you open.

 

It's a pretty simple concept that has had waaaaaay to much thought put into who's doing what.

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... can we at least agree that being able to use one's voice to control the car/smartphone vs hands and eyes makes the most sense?

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Upgraded my '13 to v3.8 tonight. Took about 35 minutes. The screen seems faster, but I haven't noticed any additional features. I was able to connect to my home WiFi though, not sure if that's new. Is there a list of new features somewhere?

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... can we at least agree that being able to use one's voice to control the car/smartphone vs hands and eyes makes the most sense?

Absolutely. We never said that you shouldn't be able to open pandora - only that it was Siri preventing it not MFT.

 

And to answer your question above - the way you tell Siri to enter restricted mode is by telling it to start eyes free.

 

 

Now that we have that out of the way I think I know exactly what's going on. Siri knows that certain Apple apps are ok for eyes free mode or they've activated a flag in the app that says it's ok. But it doesn't know about 3rd party apps like Pandora or the Pandora app isn't setting the flag (if there is one).

 

There still seems to be a bug with it blocking everything after it tries to open Pandora.

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I'm pretty sure its not just Pandora. Ask Siri to find out which Sirius stations are playing Christmas music. She'll have to open a web browser which she won't want to do for you. I'm pretty sure it gets borked after this as well. (fyi I have chrome installed so it opens it vs Safari.

 

I think we might be saying the same thing. It certainly is Siri's voice and her saying that she won't do a given cmd when asked to verbally. However I believe and that is substantiated by the PDF you so graciously linked, That it is MFT telling her to deny a given cmd.

 

"feature to control Siri responses that include display information and can be enabled or disabled as needed." This is AFTER its established the SCO & BT link. I suppose I could contact my programmer friend that does mobile apps and also drinks the apple juice. Perhaps he'd know what capabilities iOS has related to this.

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