Turbocharger kit

[GarrettP1]

Does anyone have a line on an aftermarket turbocharger kit?

 

I can find supercharger kits quite easily, but what I am looking for is more of a twin turbo set up.

 

Suggestions?

 

Thanks,

 

Garrett

[ablb]

Does anyone have a line on an aftermarket turbocharger kit?

 

I can find supercharger kits quite easily, but what I am looking for is more of a twin turbo set up.

 

Suggestions?

 

Thanks,

 

Garrett

Probably not going to happen, to many development problems.

Single turbo .

 

I wouldn't want to do either to a FWD but an AWD that would be something .

 

ab

[CreamEDGE.]

The transmission's Torque limit is going to be approached easy with a turbo kit.

[MustangMike]

Buy a mustang, get a kenne bell supercharger and push 600 hp ! You may want to forge the internals first.

Edited March 1, 2009 by MustangMike

[GarrettP1]

Buy a mustang, get a kenne bell supercharger and push 600 hp ! You may want to forge the internals first.

 

I think you're wrong.

 

I have a 600 hp car already (Murcielago).

 

I want the effeciency of the turbocharger system (i.e. waste exhaust gases are spining the compressors for forced induction) rather than the rapid acceleration and low-end torque of a supercharger.

 

I don't want to use my Edge to street race. I want it to perform with vigor during highway cruising, lane changes, and acceleration while at speed.

 

Garrett

[MustangMike]

I think you're wrong.

 

I have a 600 hp car already (Murcielago).

 

I want the effeciency of the turbocharger system (i.e. waste exhaust gases are spining the compressors for forced induction) rather than the rapid acceleration and low-end torque of a supercharger.

 

I don't want to use my Edge to street race. I want it to perform with vigor during highway cruising, lane changes, and acceleration while at speed.

 

Garrett

 

What exactly was I "wrong" about ?

 

I f you can afford a lambo, why not just buy a porsche cayenne Turbo S ? Besides.....street racing is illegal.... :burnout:

 

The spent exhaust gasses spin the turbine, not the compressor. There is no "compressor" this is forced induction douche.

The helical gears compress the air, feeding the motor. Douche.

Edited March 2, 2009 by MustangMike

[CreamEDGE.]

How's about...

 

Wait for the EcoBoost EDGE and save yourself a world of headache.

[MustangMike]

How's about...

 

Wait for the EcoBoost EDGE and save yourself a world of headache.

 

Now this seems like a good idea !

[GarrettP1]

What exactly was I "wrong" about ?

 

I f you can afford a lambo, why not just buy a porsche cayenne Turbo S ? Besides.....street racing is illegal.... :burnout:

 

The spent exhaust gasses spin the turbine, not the compressor. There is no "compressor" this is forced induction douche.

The helical gears compress the air, feeding the motor. Douche.

 

Gosh Mikey,

 

I can see that you don't know much about automobile engines.

 

As the turbochargers vanes spin, they turn the shaft of the .....compressor. It's the compressor side of the turbocharger that sends boost to the intake.

 

And I don't like the Cayenne or the BMW X6.

 

The Edge is a utility car for around town.

 

I can afford a Murcielago because I don't waste my money.

 

Garrett

[capnkirk52]

New twin screw blowers are hitting efficiencies of 97-98%.

 

But just wait for the ecoboost next year.

[bbf2530]

I'm sure alot of people who don't "waste" their money cannot afford a $300,000.00 vehicle. Spending $300,000.00 on tires and an engine, is a "waste" of money.......Compressors are for inflating air mattresses and tires Douche. A piston compresses the air, are there pistons inside a turbocharger.....last time I checked, there was not....Douche. Stop trolling. Douche. :D

 

BTW, your a Douche.

 

Hi MustangMike. :D I am simply trying to help here, so please no name calling. A turbocharger is an air compressor. It is classified as a "Centrifugal Compressor".

 

There are many types of compressors and most of them do not involve pistons. They include:

 

1 - Centrifugal compressors (an automotive turbocharger is a Centrifugal Compressor).

2 - Diagonal or mixed-flow compressors

3 - Axial-flow compressors (used in jet aircraft/gas turbine engines)

4 - Reciprocating compressors (the piston type compressor you are describing)

5 - Rotary screw compressors

6 - Rotary vane compressors

7 - Scroll compressors

8 - Diaphragm compressors

 

If you doubt any of this information, please just Google it. In fact, if you simply Google the word "compressor". Here is one link (Wikipedia) with some good information: LINK: Compressors

 

If anyone does not like the Wikipedia link, there are many other informational sites available.

 

Hope this information helps.

 

Good luck. :beerchug:

[CreamEDGE.]

Why are you still insisting on doing your own twin turbocharged engine when Ford will have one on the option sheet with all of the engineering thought out? You know, AWD that's able to handle the power, engine mounts, transmission made to withstand the power, engine internals that are stronger, new turbo manifold, revised PCV system, new turbo inlet intake, reworked engine compartment, perfectly matched turbochargers, engine/transmission programming for the turbochargers, all for WAY less than going custom.

Edited March 4, 2009 by CreamEDGE.

[GarrettP1]

Why are you still insisting on doing your own twin turbocharged engine when Ford will have one on the option sheet with all of the engineering thought out? You know, AWD that's able to handle the power, engine mounts, transmission made to withstand the power, engine internals that are stronger, new turbo manifold, revised PCV system, new turbo inlet intake, reworked engine compartment, perfectly matched turbochargers, engine/transmission programming for the turbochargers, all for WAY less than going custom.

 

Only because I need the kit now (for my car), not for something available in the future.

 

Also, I've found (from other cars I've modded) that simply controlling for detonation and avoiding abrupt acceleration the drivetrain will handle the torque just fine.

 

I agree that if was going to run the quarter mile in this thing then I will get into trouble with the transmission, and possibly the axles over time.

All I want is a better handling version of what I have now.

 

I am looking at about $4 to 5K for the whole system with install. It's not that big a project.

 

Garrett

[Splitpi]

I think a single will be easier to install and build than a dual turbo. You only need to route the exhaust on one side to the other. The Intercooler piping is greatly simplified.

[barrydancer]

I've been pleased with my Edge's highway performance, acceleration, lane changing, etc, given that it's a 4,000 pound brick. To each his own, though. I did, however, lose a red light race to a new Taurus the other day, (must have relapsed and thought I was in my old 5.0!) so maybe I need to rethink things. :P

[fakesnake]

I think I would look into the Squires Turbo System which replaces the mufflers in the rear of the vehicle with twin turbos, one per side. There is no intercooling needed because the pressurized air from the turbos is routed back up to the throttle body in the front of the engine. The piping from the back to the front handles the cooling. I have seen several different applications on their site but not an Edge, Should work if you can sort out the air/fuel management issues with bigger injectors and fuel pump. BTW my other car is a supercharged o7 mustang converted to a shelby look alike.

[Splitpi]

I think I would look into the Squires Turbo System which replaces the mufflers in the rear of the vehicle with twin turbos, one per side. There is no intercooling needed because the pressurized air from the turbos is routed back up to the throttle body in the front of the engine. The piping from the back to the front handles the cooling. I have seen several different applications on their site but not an Edge, Should work if you can sort out the air/fuel management issues with bigger injectors and fuel pump. BTW my other car is a supercharged o7 mustang converted to a shelby look alike.

 

 

That doesn't sound efficient to me. By the time the exhaust hits the muffler ~ 5-6 feet down the pipe, it has cooled and lost a great deal of its power. Inaddition, the throttle response would be greatly pronounced due to the time for the exhaust pressure to travel down the turbo and back up the massive amount of coolside tubing.

 

But I suppose a fairly aggressive pitch turbine wheel will make up for the decreased exhaust pressure.... and the turbo would run cooler too, so oil baking wouldn't be a great concern.

[Waldo]

I agree on the efficiency; if the piping is providing enough cooling to the intake that an intercooler isn't needed, then it's also providing enough cooling to the exhaust such that the amount of energy available is significantly reduced. The only way around that I can see would be to use a really big turbine, but that's just going to further increase the response time.

 

I know on my FD RX7, the exhaust temperatures at the turbo are close to 1300 degrees, but down at the muffler they're about 450. That means you're losing 2/3rds of the heat energy available before it even get's to the turbo.

 

When looking at these kinds of systems, I always ask, if it were really such a good idea, wouldn't some OEM somewhere have tried it?

Edited March 18, 2009 by Waldo

[feelin edgy]

The heat of the exhaust is not providing any energy to spin the turbo, the problem with cooling the exhaust is that it reduced the volume of the exhaust. Less volume equals fewer rotations of the fan which means less compression on the air side.

[weasel]

The heat of the exhaust is not providing any energy to spin the turbo, the problem with cooling the exhaust is that it reduced the volume of the exhaust. Less volume equals fewer rotations of the fan which means less compression on the air side.

 

Sort of ... The heat is providing ALL of the energy. It is the expansion of the exhaust gas as it goes from exhaust pipe to turbine that makes it spin. That is why there is header wrap and thermal blankets for the exhaust side of turbos. Its to retain the heat energy and reduce turbo lag. Thermal expansion.

[akirby]

Sort of ... The heat is providing ALL of the energy. It is the expansion of the exhaust gas as it goes from exhaust pipe to turbine that makes it spin. That is why there is header wrap and thermal blankets for the exhaust side of turbos. Its to retain the heat energy and reduce turbo lag. Thermal expansion.

 

No, it's the force of the piston pushing the exhaust out of the exhaust valves and into the exhaust manifold that generates the energy to spin the turbo. The exhaust gas is at it's hottest in the cylinder when it ignites. In this case heat is the byproduct of the force that generates the energy - it's not the source.

[BlazedUp]

The velocity of the spent exhaust gasses is whats spinning the turbine on the turbo. Heat has nothing to do with it.

I would look into a company called Incon.

[Splitpi]

The velocity of the spent exhaust gasses is whats spinning the turbine on the turbo. Heat has nothing to do with it.

I would look into a company called Incon.

 

Turbochargers are also called heat engines. The turbine portion of the turbo converts heat energy from the exhaust into power. This power then drives the compressor wheel which allows the engine to burn fuel more efficiently and produce greater power... wash and repeat.

 

As the exhaust gasses cool they loose energy despite the same volume of gas reaching the turbine, whether the turbo is mounted close to the engine at the header or far from the engine at the end of the tail pipe. However the energy in that volume of gas will vary greatly and not produce the same amount of power from the turbo.

 

Volume of gas did not change. Only the energy of that gas. And that energy is related to its temperature. As the heat energy dissipates the velocity of that gas goes down. This is a direct correlation due to the energy loss from the gasses cooling.

 

Turbochargers are heat engines [atleast the turbine portion which is used to produce power].

Edited April 2, 2009 by Splitpi

[akirby]

Turbochargers are also called heat engines. The turbine portion of the turbo converts heat energy from the exhaust into power. This power then drives the compressor wheel which allows the engine to burn fuel more efficiently and produce greater power... wash and repeat.

 

As the exhaust gasses cool they loose energy despite the same volume of gas reaching the turbine, whether the turbo is mounted close to the engine at the header or far from the engine at the end of the tail pipe. However the energy in that volume of gas will vary greatly and not produce the same amount of power from the turbo.

 

Volume of gas did not change. Only the energy of that gas. And that energy is related to its temperature. As the heat energy dissipates the velocity of that gas goes down. This is a direct correlation due to the energy loss from the gasses cooling.

 

Turbochargers are heat engines [atleast the turbine portion which is used to produce power].

 

One last time - heat does not turn the turbo. Air velocity turns the turbo. There is more exhaust velocity close to the engine than there is at the tailpipe. Heat and exhaust velocity are both by-products of combustion. And it doesn't make the engine burn fuel more efficiently - it simply provides more air and therefore more oxygen which produces more power. Overall it might be more efficient at certain speeds but that's not the goal. The goal is more power.

[Splitpi]

One last time - heat does not turn the turbo. Air velocity turns the turbo. There is more exhaust velocity close to the engine than there is at the tailpipe. Heat and exhaust velocity are both by-products of combustion. And it doesn't make the engine burn fuel more efficiently - it simply provides more air and therefore more oxygen which produces more power. Overall it might be more efficient at certain speeds but that's not the goal. The goal is more power.

 

Please stop arguing this, it is a matter of thermodynamics.

 

PV = nRT

 

Pressure * Volume = Average Moleculer Kinetic Energy.

 

P = absolute pressure

V = Volume

n = number of moles of molecules

R = universal gas constant = 8.3145 J/mol K

T = absolute Temperature

 

V has not changed.

n has not change

R is a constant and cannot change

 

So P is directly related to T under our discussion. As temperature decreases the pressure decreases. Thus the turbo is less efficient due to the decreased temperature of the gas when it reaches the turbine. The pressure is a direct result of the temperature.

 

The inverse is true on the intake side of things as we try to increase the volume of gas inside the combustion chamber by maintaining the Pressure and decreasing the Temperature via an intercooler.

 

Or if you prefer we could solve the same via Maxwell Speed Distribution:

 

Vrms = SQRT(3RT/M)

 

Vrms = velocity [root mean square]

R = universal gas constant = 8.3145 J/mol K

M = molar mass

T = Temperature

 

Again the velocity is directly related to the temperature because the mass is held constant under this scenario and R is a constant.

Edited April 2, 2009 by Splitpi