PTU drain plug drill and tap

[1004ron]

Did Ford fix the problem from gen 1 then? Did Ford tackle the "real" problem of the PTU overheating, besides just putting a little air scoop under the vehicle? Not entirely from what I have read.

It sounds like you don't know the answers to those questions, but have nevertheless come to the conclusion that nothing has been done.

 

The changes that I'm aware of are increased oil capacity, cooling fins added to the casting, air scoop, oil temperature sensors, .......... and there may be more. Ford didn't broadcast those changes as far as I can tell.

 

Have you read any reports here of failures on the Gen-2 ?

[1004ron]

If I am not mistaken, Ford is going with a new supplier for the AWD systems for 2019 on the Edge. I'll see if I can find some information.

Couldn't find much on that - just this:

 

American Axle (AXL) to Deliver AWD PTUs for Ford Crossovers

[tk2fast]

It sounds like you don't know the answers to those questions, but have nevertheless come to the conclusion that nothing has been done.

 

The changes that I'm aware of are increased oil capacity, cooling fins added to the casting, air scoop, oil temperature sensors, .......... and there may be more. Ford didn't broadcast those changes as far as I can tell.

 

Have you read any reports here of failures on the Gen-2 ?

I know I've been a little harsh but It's non productive to keep debating you on these issues and yes I do "know the answers" to those questions. My "questions" were rhetorical. Look at the big picture here; Ford did not resolve the PTU issue with over a decade of small inconsequential "fixes" and yes there have been failures on Gen 2. Read other Ford owner forums and internet sources and it becomes clear. I understand you trying to diminish my viewpoint of this problem, but nevertheless the fact remains that Ford has a dismal record of successfully taking care of this problem, and continues into the Gen 2 vehicles. Ford had a perfect opportunity when re-designing to the Gen 2 to permanently take care of the problem, but failed to do so.

Been a pleasure talking with you.

 

You never said what lubes you use.

Edited August 23, 2018 by tk2fast

[tk2fast]

On my Gen 1.5 I use Mobil-1 OR Valvoline full synth 75w-100 High Temp gear oil and I change it at 20k intervals. High temp because that is when most of the problems of sludging occurs - during prolonged high temp operation. I think regular changes are more damage preventative than the maker of the lube oil. While I do believe there are superior products to the Mobil-1 or Valvoline product (Amsoil for instance) I am comfortable changing the PTU oil at the intervals I mentioned and using the M-1 or Valv product. I have 93k miles on my Edge and so far no runs, no drips, no errors.

I agree. From everything I've read 20K change intervals make sense. You are right to choose a high temp lube too, as that's the problem plaguing the PTU.

[tk2fast]

I suggest to make a survey amongst forum members to get an idea of the percentage of those who had an issue with the PTU. Same for the other "common" issues.

 

Note that for the PTU, Ford did offer an extended warranty (10Y/120K Miles) for the Middle East where there is much higher temperatures & high speed driving in addition to crossovers being marketed as SUVs and driving on sand dunes is much more common than in the US. Also replacement PTUs came with drain plugs & on 2013 or 2014 all PTUs came with drain plugs from the factory. Meaning Ford was trying to address the issue. If I'm not mistaken, there are also at least 6 or 7 versions (incremental improvements) for the standard PTU.

Thanks for you input omar302. It would have been nice if Ford did the same here in the US and specifically in Arizona where temps can easily reach 115. And I applaud the incremental improvements (albeit too little too late here) which is why earlier in the posts I asked if someone from Ford or a Ford mechanic would chime in and enlighten the issue.

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

as to whether gen 2 ptu failures have occurred, they have, yes. prob dont hear about those so much if covered by warranty.

[1004ron]

I know I've been a little harsh but It's non productive to keep debating you on these issues and yes I do "know the answers" to those questions. My "questions" were rhetorical. Look at the big picture here; Ford did not resolve the PTU issue with over a decade of small inconsequential "fixes" and yes there have been failures on Gen 2. Read other Ford owner forums and internet sources and it becomes clear. I understand you trying to diminish my viewpoint of this problem, but nevertheless the fact remains that Ford has a dismal record of successfully taking care of this problem, and continues into the Gen 2 vehicles. Ford had a perfect opportunity when re-designing to the Gen 2 to permanently take care of the problem, but failed to do so.

Been a pleasure talking with you.

 

You never said what lubes you use.

No worries, have no issue with your decision not to engage in debate on an open public forum.

[tk2fast]

If I am not mistaken, Ford is going with a new supplier for the AWD systems for 2019 on the Edge. I'll see if I can find some information.

Good call. I think this is what might be on the 2019 Edge. A disconnecting AWD system. Maybe this will alleviate the PTU problem?

 

https://www.aam.com/media/story/aam-s-next-generation-ecotrac-increases-

[omar302]

Good call. I think this is what might be on the 2019 Edge. A disconnecting AWD system. Maybe this will alleviate the PTU problem?

 

https://www.aam.com/media/story/aam-s-next-generation-ecotrac-increases-

From your linked article, this PTU originally debuted on the Jeep Cherokee, searching online and there seems to be a similar story with PTU failures!

https://www.google.com/search?q=2014+jeep+cherokee+power+transfer+unit+problems&oq=2014+jeep+Cherokee+ptu&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l2.10060j0j4&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

Now, again I suggest a vote type survey on this forum, just remember that people come to forums only when they have problems, so if out of 500k sold Edges (as an example) , and 100 had PTU, you'll see 100 posts of PTU problems, but the rest will not post about not having an issue.

 

Also, from that Jeep PTU issues, this model only came in 2014, while the Edge from 2007.

Edited August 23, 2018 by omar302

[tk2fast]

The Jeep PTU uses the the first Gen unit made by American Axle, though the second Gen is going on the new Edge.

Edited August 24, 2018 by tk2fast

[dolsen]

 

Couldn't find much on that - just this:

American Axle (AXL) to Deliver AWD PTUs for Ford Crossovers

This is the article I remembered reading. In the first paragraph is says American Axle signed a contract with ford. I read that as This is a new relationship and new AWD supplier. I do not know who the current supplier is, so maybe the article is referring to a contract extension?

[onyxbfly]

Part of the problem with the PTU is the fluid that Ford dictates as a lifetime product. This is the same PTU that Mazda uses and if you check a few of their forums you will see numerous complaints. At least Mazda did do somewhat right by their customers and offered an separate extended warranty on the PTU itself.

 

Ford should also make replacement PTU with the drain hole. The middle eastern ones come with it. Its not like they have to reinvent the wheel.

Edited August 25, 2018 by onyxbfly

[1004ron]

Part of the problem with the PTU is the fluid that Ford dictates as a lifetime product. This is the same PTU that Mazda uses and if you check a few of their forums you will see numerous complaints. At least Mazda did do somewhat right by their customers and offered an separate extended warranty on the PTU itself.

 

Ford, and a few others, do that to advertise fantastically low running/maintenance costs, ....... a gamble that didn't pay off.

 

 

Ford should also make replacement PTU with the drain hole. The middle eastern ones come with it. Its not like they have to reinvent the wheel.

The latest models, I think from 2017, do have a drain, so I'd expect them to use the latest revision for replacements on earlier models.

Edited August 25, 2018 by 1004ron

[WWWPerfA_ZN0W]

all gen 2's in the us and canada are now equipped with a drain plug in the ptu if awd. that means 2015+ Edge 2016+ MKX.

[onyxbfly]

Ford, and a few others, do that to advertise fantastically low running/maintenance costs, ....... a gamble that didn't pay off.

 

The latest models, I think from 2017, do have a drain, so I'd expect them to use the latest revision for replacements on earlier models.

 

I was actually referring to gen 1.5 models. The ME versions come with drain holes. For whatever reason Ford feels that they are not needed here. As far as I know the current replacements for gen 1.5 have drain holes. A coworker had theirs replaced last month (2014 sport) and he said there wasn't a drain hole. I referred him to the forum and FEWW. Hopefully he will join.

 

Yes 2015 and up come with drain holes yet we still have failures....

Edited August 25, 2018 by onyxbfly

[tk2fast]

So Mazda does the right thing and extends the warranty on the PTU, but Ford doesn't, except for the ME. Hmmm.

 

Looks like the continuing failures are the lack of fluid drains every 15 to 25K, depending on varying factors, with high ambient temperatures being highest on the list.

 

Too bad the majority of Edge AWD owners don't realize this. And too bad again that Ford still does not make it clear or would do the right thing and extend the warranty!

[dolsen]

Tk2fast, do you know what percentage of AWD vehicles have had issues? I think this would largely dictate the need for extended warranties or product changes.

 

I do not, but maybe Mazda had a much higher failure rate and that is why they took action.

 

There are a number of factors that go into design changes, not just anecdotal

[tk2fast]

Tk2fast, do you know what percentage of AWD vehicles have had issues? I think this would largely dictate the need for extended warranties or product changes.

 

I do not, but maybe Mazda had a much higher failure rate and that is why they took action.

 

There are a number of factors that go into design changes, not just anecdotal

I would think Ford sells a hell of a lot more AWD vehicles over a longer period of time versus Mazda. Now considering both Mazda and Ford use the same PTU, and assuming both PTU's had similar failure rates, then one would think that Ford would have had more PTU problems.

 

Even IF Mazda had a higher failure rate, I doubt they would have had more total failed units than Ford, especially when you look at how many different Ford vehicles have used that same PTU configuration, combined with the total years (over a decade).

 

Since Ford most likely had more total failed units, the cost of extending the PTU warranty probably would have been much greater than Mazda.

 

This is my logic when I said, Ford also should have extended the PTU warranty here in the US.

Edited August 25, 2018 by tk2fast

[enigma-2]

There is another factor at play here. All PTU's, irregardless of brand, will fail. It's inherent in its design. The factor is the service dealer. My local dealer checks all PTU's at every oil change. (That's how they found my PTU starting to leak around the seal. Gen 1.) Non-Ford mechanics, including handyman oil changes, probably never check the unit. Early detection is the key. It's a lot cheaper to change the seal than to replace the entire unit. The seal starts to leak, unit loses fluid and what's left overheats and fries into goo, resulting in failure.

 

My local service manager told me that he recommended fluid change at 36k. But they don't push it with customers as it's not a Ford servicable unit. Just for those who ask for if. (Me and one other guy).

 

Talked to him about using Amsoil and he said they only use Motorcraft designed for this application. He thought that it wasn't the fluid failing, rather the seal getting old and starting to leak. (Mine starting to leak around 92k.) They replaced it under extended warranty and should be good for another 80-90k or so.

Edited August 26, 2018 by enigma-2

[omar302]

I would think Ford sells a hell of a lot more AWD vehicles over a longer period of time versus Mazda. Now considering both Mazda and Ford use the same PTU, and assuming both PTU's had similar failure rates, then one would think that Ford would have had more PTU problems.

 

Even IF Mazda had a higher failure rate, I doubt they would have had more total failed units than Ford, especially when you look at how many different Ford vehicles have used that same PTU configuration, combined with the total years (over a decade).

 

Since Ford most likely had more total failed units, the cost of extending the PTU warranty probably would have been much greater than Mazda.

 

This is my logic when I said, Ford also should have extended the PTU warranty here in the US.

During the 1st generation, 2007-2010, the Edge & MKX only had the 3.5L engine while the Mazda CX-9 had the 3.7L with more torque, a different transmission and the Mazda is a 3 row crossover that is bigger & heavier than the Edge. So it does put more load on the PTU.

[dolsen]

I would think Ford sells a hell of a lot more AWD vehicles over a longer period of time versus Mazda. Now considering both Mazda and Ford use the same PTU, and assuming both PTU's had similar failure rates, then one would think that Ford would have had more PTU problems.

 

Even IF Mazda had a higher failure rate, I doubt they would have had more total failed units than Ford, especially when you look at how many different Ford vehicles have used that same PTU configuration, combined with the total years (over a decade).

 

Since Ford most likely had more total failed units, the cost of extending the PTU warranty probably would have been much greater than Mazda.

 

This is my logic when I said, Ford also should have extended the PTU warranty here in the US.

Understood, but you are operating off of a lot of assumptions here.

 

Selling more units does give potential of having higher failure rates if EVERYTHING else is exactly equal, but there are just too many factors at play here to assume that ford has the same failure rate as Mazda.

 

You are well within your right to never buy another Ford and dislike Ford. Dont think Im trying to deter you from that. Im simply playing devils advocate and trying to understand your opinion.

[tk2fast]

Understood, but you are operating off of a lot of assumptions here.

 

Selling more units does give potential of having higher failure rates if EVERYTHING else is exactly equal, but there are just too many factors at play here to assume that ford has the same failure rate as Mazda.

 

You are well within your right to never buy another Ford and dislike Ford. Dont think Im trying to deter you from that. Im simply playing devils advocate and trying to understand your opinion.

I had to to make assumptions to make some sense out of it, but I think there is some validity to my points. As you said there are just too many factors to quantify as to prove it. I really don't dislike Ford, just any manufacturer that does not do the "right" thing and there are many that don't. And seems most people have a different interpretation of the "right" thing as is evident here. I just feel Ford should have been more forthcoming on this issue as it has gone on for a long time. Not good PR for Ford.

 

And yes, I would still rate Ford well above many others out there.

 

Thanks for the reply.

[tk2fast]

There is another factor at play here. All PTU's, irregardless of brand, will fail. It's inherent in its design. The factor is the service dealer. My local dealer checks all PTU's at every oil change. (That's how they found my PTU starting to leak around the seal. Gen 1.) Non-Ford mechanics, including handyman oil changes, probably never check the unit. Early detection is the key. It's a lot cheaper to change the seal than to replace the entire unit. The seal starts to leak, unit loses fluid and what's left overheats and fries into goo, resulting in failure.

 

My local service manager told me that he recommended fluid change at 36k. But they don't push it with customers as it's not a Ford servicable unit. Just for those who ask for if. (Me and one other guy).

 

Talked to him about using Amsoil and he said they only use Motorcraft designed for this application. He thought that it wasn't the fluid failing, rather the seal getting old and starting to leak. (Mine starting to leak around 92k.) They replaced it under extended warranty and should be good for another 80-90k or so.

All good points for sure. More Ford dealers need to be up to date on this as it would help prevent a lot of heartaches. I posted Amsoil Severe Gear Lube earlier just a help as it's new packaging might make it easier to fill. I do think that Amsoil has a little higher heat tolerance than the Ford lube though. But really the most important issue is just changing the fluid, period. There are a lot of good synthetic gear lubes out there and I'm sure Ford's is very good.

 

May I ask if you think the extended warranty is good to have. I've looked into it and for less than 2K one can get the best premium care warranty, with zero deductible. Would like to know what others think about this also.

Edited August 26, 2018 by tk2fast

[enigma-2]

May I ask if you think the extended warranty is good to have. I've looked into it and for less than 2K one can get the best premium care warranty, with zero deductible. Would like to know what others think about this also.

This has been discussed here at great length. Is it worth it? No one can answer this. I have a gen 1 MKX and for me, yes. I like to keep my car nice as possible. On my last warranty, it more than paid for itself. And not just one repair, but over several. They replaced the PTU and what's that worth? Add $600 for this, $475 for that, etc. and yes, it was worth it for me. (Seems like everything costs hundreds. My first repair was for a broken vacuum hose. It turned out it was on the back of the engine and required a bunch of parts to be removed before they could get to it. Then there's the cost of the custom hose itself. Nothing's cheap anymore.)

 

I currently have ano extended warranty covering all of the engine and power train. Bought it mainly as insurance agaist a water pump failure. If that happens, I break even. If it takes out the engine, I'm thousands ahead. I also get a loaner for all repairs where they keep it overnight & free car washes. Free roadside assistance (had used it when I had a flat while driving. Guy came and changed my tire in driving rain. Nice!

 

What I did was to go online, Google ford extended warranty, got three estimates, printed them out and took to local dealer. Let him give his price and showed him what I could get from other ford dealers. He immediately matched. I looked at him and asked what else he could do. He offered $0-deductible if I had repair's done there. (Big smile). They will ask for $100 for a detailed inspection. If they find anything, you will need to have it repaired before they will cover. (Don't want to fix a pre-existing condition).

 

Remember there are three levels of warranty. You don't have to take the mosr expensive.

[tk2fast]

Thanks enigma-2. Great info. These new vehicles are quite complex and with that the greater the chance for more to go wrong, so I was thinking that it might be prudent to have an extended warranty.